Bitcoin Forum
December 02, 2016, 08:15:03 PM *
News: To be able to use the next phase of the beta forum software, please ensure that your email address is correct/functional.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Paying for Bandwidth in Anonymous Network  (Read 1239 times)
cunicula
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 756


Stack-overflow Guru


View Profile WWW
February 12, 2012, 05:12:25 AM
 #1

Is there a good mechanism to pay for TOR bandwidth?

I am ignorant about computers, so please point me somewhere to learn as necessary. Anyways:

Say Computer A wants to pay Computer B for bandwidth.

1) Computer A engages in an expensive handshake with Computer B. Both computers need to transfer say 1 MB of useless info to each other. The handshake establishes terms of the agreement between the two computers. The handshake is a waste meant to establish investment in the relationship. Wasteful investment discourages people from ripping each other off and then immediately looking for new partners. (In economics this is called entry cost)

2) Computer A now begins streaming proof-of-work to Computer B. Computer B submits this to a mining pool for verification. At the same time Computer B streams bandwidth to Computer A.

3) If the proof-of-work doesn't provide valid shares some threshold specified in the handshake, then Computer B stops providing bandwidth and looks for another customer to perform a costly handshake with.

4) If the bandwidth stream isn't above some threshold specified in the handshake, then Computer A stops providing proof-of-work and looks for another computer to perform a costly handshake with.

Is this a useful idea? Has it been proposed before somewhere? Or is there some better mechanism?


▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁
        AltCoinInternalExperts                Get Your Altcoin Promoted On Social Media       
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
1480709703
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1480709703

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1480709703
Reply with quote  #2

1480709703
Report to moderator
1480709703
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1480709703

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1480709703
Reply with quote  #2

1480709703
Report to moderator
1480709703
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1480709703

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1480709703
Reply with quote  #2

1480709703
Report to moderator
There are several different types of Bitcoin clients. The most secure are full nodes like Bitcoin-Qt, but full nodes are more resource-heavy, and they must do a lengthy initial syncing process. As a result, lightweight clients with somewhat less security are commonly used.
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1480709703
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1480709703

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1480709703
Reply with quote  #2

1480709703
Report to moderator
1480709703
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1480709703

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1480709703
Reply with quote  #2

1480709703
Report to moderator
1480709703
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1480709703

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1480709703
Reply with quote  #2

1480709703
Report to moderator
Revalin
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 728


165YUuQUWhBz3d27iXKxRiazQnjEtJNG9g


View Profile
February 12, 2012, 05:22:27 AM
 #2

I think it's useful and workable.  We talked about it some before:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=62107.0;all

      War is God's way of teaching Americans geography.  --Ambrose Bierce
Bitcoin is the Devil's way of teaching geeks economics.  --Revalin 165YUuQUWhBz3d27iXKxRiazQnjEtJNG9g
cunicula
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 756


Stack-overflow Guru


View Profile WWW
February 12, 2012, 06:13:32 AM
 #3

search youtube for computer networking videos.  it is better then flailing around in ignorance  Smiley

You are an idiot, but that was already well known from your posting history. At reading comprehension, you fail. You should know that from standardized test taking. Beyond that, I don't think I've much else to say to you.

▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁
        AltCoinInternalExperts                Get Your Altcoin Promoted On Social Media       
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
cunicula
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 756


Stack-overflow Guru


View Profile WWW
February 12, 2012, 06:14:50 AM
 #4

I think it's useful and workable.  We talked about it some before:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=62107.0;all

Thanks. Reading this now!

▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁
        AltCoinInternalExperts                Get Your Altcoin Promoted On Social Media       
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
runeks
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 924



View Profile WWW
February 12, 2012, 09:12:04 AM
 #5

I understand why you want to avoid transferring bitcoins directly, with the fees in small value transactions being proportionally larger. That being said I don't think your proposal is going to work out. Clients need to have easy access to the source of payment. And this isn't the case when the source of payment is nonces that produce work with a certain difficulty (proof of work). In essence, the average client lacks the proper production equipment. Most clients will not have GPUs (much less the right GPUs) or dedicated hardware to do this, and thus the cost for them of producing bitcoins will be orders of magnitudes greater than that of dedicated miners. And so, they will probably pay at least an order of magnitude more than the market price of bitcoins if they use their CPU for mining.
In essence it would be a bit like me, when I need to pay someone in gold (let's say we use gold as a currency), travelling to some remote location and start digging in the ground looking for gold. I would probably not find any, and if I did it would have cost me so much more than I could have bought the gold for at an exchange, or it will take way longer digging up the same amount of gold that I could make by working for someone for an hour or two.

I think the idea of funding Tor nodes is very interesting though, and I really think it would help make the Tor network more efficient. A worry could be if it could compromise the anonymous nature of the network. I believe it doesn't have to necessarily, but it might provide extra tools for those interested in stripping away the layer of anonymity.

I do believe the solution lies in bitcoin transactions still. Distributed in some clever way, or with some other twist that avoids large fees and avoids overloading the network.
cunicula
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 756


Stack-overflow Guru


View Profile WWW
February 12, 2012, 09:45:52 AM
 #6

I moved my discussion to the other thread, but you responded here first so...

I don't see the inefficiencies associated with mining as a big deal. If you have a GPU, then you can generate enough to pay for some bandwidth. It doesn't matter that much if it is inefficient as long as the cost is sufficiently low. e.g. People still use incandescent lightbulbs. For TOR users, I don't think that having a GPU will be at all unusual. I like proof of work better payment because it is more anonymous. However, there is no sense debating this because we agree on the basic facts.

Instead of debating, let's consider a pseudonymous alternative:

A central party sells redemption codes that can be exchanged for bitcoin. The codes are micro redemption codes, so maybe 10000 codes = 1 bitcoin. Users purchase the codes in bulk and stream them to nodes. The nodes redeem the codes with the central party for bitcoin. The use of disposable coupons keeps bloated microtxns out of the blockchain. The central party will know the pseudonymous identities of users and nodes, but not their real identities. To make it a business, the central party can skim some off the top.



▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁
        AltCoinInternalExperts                Get Your Altcoin Promoted On Social Media       
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
runeks
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 924



View Profile WWW
February 12, 2012, 09:55:16 AM
 #7

I moved my discussion to the other thread, but you responded here first so...
I responded in the other thread as well. Smiley I'm moving my reply to your idea to the other thread.
cunicula
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 756


Stack-overflow Guru


View Profile WWW
February 12, 2012, 10:15:57 AM
 #8

search youtube for computer networking videos.  it is better then flailing around in ignorance  Smiley

You are an idiot, but that was already well known from your posting history. At reading comprehension, you fail. You should know that from standardized test taking. Beyond that, I don't think I've much else to say to you.

I will refrain from personal judgements but as you said

Quote
I am ignorant about computers, so please point me somewhere to learn as necessary.
Say Computer A wants to pay Computer B for bandwidth.

Since this statement is both ignorant of what bandwidth is and how computers communicate on a LAN or WAN, educational resources on the proper terminology to express your ideas would be most useful for you.  You are welcome  Kiss

I understand that your intelligence is too limited to assess content, so you rely on use of terminology to evaluate other people.
This is actually a good example of a reading comprehension failure.

▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▁
        AltCoinInternalExperts                Get Your Altcoin Promoted On Social Media       
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!