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Author Topic: TradeHill - shutting down trading / deposits and returning all client funds  (Read 19900 times)
ssaCEO
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February 18, 2012, 05:29:35 AM
 #81

From my experience fighting the federal government, its not always that simple. First, bringing all their problems to the forum would be a horrible idea. Most of what the government is doing to monetary revolutionaries isn't overt legal action, but covert disruption. Tradehill probably isn't sure themselves who the infiltrators in their organization are.

Okay, you're saying they were infiltrated? Can you back up that claim, and/or why do you think that? Who at TH was working for a government? Because frankly this sounds childish, paranoid and stupid if you know how the US gov't works (excluding the secret part that's persecuting you, of course).

Most of you who complain work regular jobs and pay taxes to a corrupt government who uses your money to blow people up. Most of you have never stuck your neck out at all to change things in this country. Most of you need to STFU and be happy bitcoins and bitcoin exchanges even exist at all.

Actually, what we need is to have a serious conversation without injecting absurd levels of FUD. And not everyone in this conversation's an armchair spectator raving about revolution and infowar from their basement. Your whole post - and I speak as a paranoid person myself - smacks of counterintel. It's off the charts on my bullshit meter. Maybe you're just insane, but it's much more likely you're a plant for the people you're ranting about, trying to make all bitcoiners sound like paranoid freaks.

And for the record, TradeHill's people are not "generals". Nor is this a "war". Bitcoin is a gnat's fart compared to Liberty Reserve. It's possible that non-conventional modes of pressure might have been applied to TradeHill here; I'd like to hear about it. What I don't accept is that an organization that's clearly done nothing wrong, who is in the right, would want to conceal from their users and colleagues the circumstances that led to the situation they find themselves in. Unless of course they're not allowed to talk about it.

All your FUD does is stifle meaningful conversation; in fact, stifling it and telling everyone to STFU seems to have been the point of your post. Why don't you STFU and stop ranting and speculating, at least long enough to dig for some real information? Or is real information antithetical to your little red-herring mission on this board?

Jared made the mistake of getting right in their faces here in San Francisco. He ran massive ads that Trade Hill was expanding and hiring engineers, data base people and CSR's. He boasted of investors and an SF Financial District Expansion Plan. He basically talked a lot of shit at the Bitcoin Meetups and ran too many employment ads on Craigslist, Monster and Careerbuilder. He literally drew the line in the sand with big boys and they pounced him. He worked hard to get their attention and he got it.

Now we're getting somewhere. But that and a nickel don't mean shit if they didn't break any laws. Sure, it might have been unwise to incorporate where they did, but a consumer fraud investigation and a gag order are two very different things.

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February 18, 2012, 07:19:22 AM
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There's been some talk - pure speculation in our own legal circle - that TradeHill may actually be under a sealed grand jury indictment and unable to talk openly about their situation

Hmm, too bad they didn't throw me onto the document, lol.  This is my post copied over from the MTGox privacy policy post, which you should read because it puts this into context:

In case you haven't read outside sources of news about this situation, this is the true story.  You won't hear this from any of them so listen up.  There's something in America called the Banking Secrecy Act.  It requires anyone who "transfers money" in significant amounts to record user information.  It's to keep rich, unspeakably greedy assholes from hiding their money from taxes because...you know, they just can't live without that extra $100k so they have to hide it offshore.

Anyway, MTGox is Japanese but if you want to do business in America, you have to follow the BSA rules.  Nobody has forced them to follow the rules because it's a lot harder but that's exactly what happened to the California-based Tradehill.  The US gov investigated silently then told their main bank to lock their account pending an investigation of their BSA compliance then said they can't talk about it.

So if the US tells a Japanese bank that, they'll ignore it without threats or political pressure.  But to make it appear in the meantime that they're complying, they did that.  Or the US sent them directly some kind of "scary" message and they're scrambling to not cause problems.

Either way, I'm finding a new exchange.
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February 18, 2012, 02:12:58 PM
 #83

From my experience fighting the federal government, its not always that simple. First, bringing all their problems to the forum would be a horrible idea. Most of what the government is doing to monetary revolutionaries isn't overt legal action, but covert disruption. Tradehill probably isn't sure themselves who the infiltrators in their organization are.

Okay, you're saying they were infiltrated? Can you back up that claim, and/or why do you think that? Who at TH was working for a government? Because frankly this sounds childish, paranoid and stupid if you know how the US gov't works (excluding the secret part that's persecuting you, of course).

Most of you who complain work regular jobs and pay taxes to a corrupt government who uses your money to blow people up. Most of you have never stuck your neck out at all to change things in this country. Most of you need to STFU and be happy bitcoins and bitcoin exchanges even exist at all.

Actually, what we need is to have a serious conversation without injecting absurd levels of FUD. And not everyone in this conversation's an armchair spectator raving about revolution and infowar from their basement. Your whole post - and I speak as a paranoid person myself - smacks of counterintel. It's off the charts on my bullshit meter. Maybe you're just insane, but it's much more likely you're a plant for the people you're ranting about, trying to make all bitcoiners sound like paranoid freaks.

And for the record, TradeHill's people are not "generals". Nor is this a "war". Bitcoin is a gnat's fart compared to Liberty Reserve. It's possible that non-conventional modes of pressure might have been applied to TradeHill here; I'd like to hear about it. What I don't accept is that an organization that's clearly done nothing wrong, who is in the right, would want to conceal from their users and colleagues the circumstances that led to the situation they find themselves in. Unless of course they're not allowed to talk about it.

All your FUD does is stifle meaningful conversation; in fact, stifling it and telling everyone to STFU seems to have been the point of your post. Why don't you STFU and stop ranting and speculating, at least long enough to dig for some real information? Or is real information antithetical to your little red-herring mission on this board?


I don't need to STFU at all. Unlike you, I'm not an "armchair spectator raving about revolution and infowar from their basement." I've done a LOT more than most people to change the monetary system. Ever heard of Liberty Dollar? Yeah, I was an RCO which means I was putting myself in the fire before bitcoin was even heard of. I also ran the Ron Paul campaign where I live and was pretty aggressive against the local GOP. So yes, I have experience dealing with Federal agents.

Furthermore, you sound suspicious yourself when you attack me for pointing out the obvious. First you say I'm an "armchair spectator raving about revolution and infowar from their basement", but then I'm "counterintel". Which one is it ssaCEO? You are saying I might be a Fed, but you are saying that I'm a dork in my mom's basement for thinking the Feds may have gone after Tradehill? Or are you saying that Feds indeed are dorks in their mom's basement? Can you clarify?
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February 18, 2012, 02:44:53 PM
 #84

From my experience fighting the federal government, its not always that simple. First, bringing all their problems to the forum would be a horrible idea. Most of what the government is doing to monetary revolutionaries isn't overt legal action, but covert disruption. Tradehill probably isn't sure themselves who the infiltrators in their organization are.

Okay, you're saying they were infiltrated? Can you back up that claim, and/or why do you think that? Who at TH was working for a government? Because frankly this sounds childish, paranoid and stupid if you know how the US gov't works (excluding the secret part that's persecuting you, of course).

Most of you who complain work regular jobs and pay taxes to a corrupt government who uses your money to blow people up. Most of you have never stuck your neck out at all to change things in this country. Most of you need to STFU and be happy bitcoins and bitcoin exchanges even exist at all.

Actually, what we need is to have a serious conversation without injecting absurd levels of FUD. And not everyone in this conversation's an armchair spectator raving about revolution and infowar from their basement. Your whole post - and I speak as a paranoid person myself - smacks of counterintel. It's off the charts on my bullshit meter. Maybe you're just insane, but it's much more likely you're a plant for the people you're ranting about, trying to make all bitcoiners sound like paranoid freaks.

And for the record, TradeHill's people are not "generals". Nor is this a "war". Bitcoin is a gnat's fart compared to Liberty Reserve. It's possible that non-conventional modes of pressure might have been applied to TradeHill here; I'd like to hear about it. What I don't accept is that an organization that's clearly done nothing wrong, who is in the right, would want to conceal from their users and colleagues the circumstances that led to the situation they find themselves in. Unless of course they're not allowed to talk about it.

All your FUD does is stifle meaningful conversation; in fact, stifling it and telling everyone to STFU seems to have been the point of your post. Why don't you STFU and stop ranting and speculating, at least long enough to dig for some real information? Or is real information antithetical to your little red-herring mission on this board?


I don't need to STFU at all. Unlike you, I'm not an "armchair spectator raving about revolution and infowar from their basement." I've done a LOT more than most people to change the monetary system. Ever heard of Liberty Dollar? Yeah, I was an RCO which means I was putting myself in the fire before bitcoin was even heard of. I also ran the Ron Paul campaign where I live and was pretty aggressive against the local GOP. So yes, I have experience dealing with Federal agents.

Furthermore, you sound suspicious yourself when you attack me for pointing out the obvious. First you say I'm an "armchair spectator raving about revolution and infowar from their basement", but then I'm "counterintel". Which one is it ssaCEO? You are saying I might be a Fed, but you are saying that I'm a dork in my mom's basement for thinking the Feds may have gone after Tradehill? Or are you saying that Feds indeed are dorks in their mom's basement? Can you clarify?

Dude, your problem is one of style.  IF you in fact were involved in those activities then i can see why they failed or are losing b/c you seriously lack polish.  and if i had to guess who you really are i'd have to guess you are truly down in your Mom's basement.

all we're trying to do here is get to the bottom of this so that the community and investors can understand and learn from the business dynamics behind what has happened.  then we could adjust and potentially save ourselves lots of headaches and money in setting up projects and we'd know better who we're dealing with.

you on the otherhand are just spreading FUD, bragging about supposed accomplishments, and impeding the free flow of information which is the antithesis of what this project is all about.

so until Jered steps up and says something to the effect that he can't legally say anything more than what he has already, then yes, you should STFU.  if and when he does, then i'll be glad to STFU.

did it ever occur to your that this information might help Bitcoin supporters behave legitimately, professionally, and legally to set up businesses that gov'ts might not go after?  or, as your name suggests, is secrecy and anarchy the only means to achieve success?
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February 18, 2012, 02:48:47 PM
 #85

Dude, your problem is one of style.  IF you in fact were involved in those activities then i can see why they failed or are losing b/c you seriously lack polish.  and if i had to guess who you really are i'd have to guess you are truly down in your Mom's basement.

all we're trying to do here is get to the bottom of this so that the community and investors can understand and learn from the business dynamics behind what has happened.  then we could adjust and potentially save ourselves lots of headaches and money in setting up projects and we'd know better who we're dealing with.

you on the otherhand are just spreading FUD, bragging about supposed accomplishments, and impeding the free flow of information which is the antithesis of what this project is all about.

so until Jered steps up and says something to the effect that he can't legally say anything more than what he has already, then yes, you should STFU.  if and when he does, then i'll be glad to STFU.

did it ever occur to your that this information might help Bitcoin supporters behave legitimately, professionally, and legally to set up businesses that gov'ts might not go after?  or, as your name suggests, is secrecy and anarchy the only means to achieve success?

Wow..what a load of bull. Got any other unfounded accusations, cypherdoc?

Please explain your attacks. I have to laugh at the way you go after me. My "style" is the problem? I'm not "polished"? Anyone with 2 brain cells can see that those are empty ad hominem attacks.

And isn't the whole "mom's basement" thing played out as a keyboard warrior line?

Quote
all we're trying to do here is get to the bottom of this so that the community and investors can understand and learn from the business dynamics behind what has happened.  then we could adjust and potentially save ourselves lots of headaches and money in setting up projects and we'd know better who we're dealing with.

If you want to learn about this stuff, start your own exchange. Do your own bit to change the nation's monetary system.
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February 18, 2012, 03:02:43 PM
 #86

Dude, your problem is one of style.  IF you in fact were involved in those activities then i can see why they failed or are losing b/c you seriously lack polish.  and if i had to guess who you really are i'd have to guess you are truly down in your Mom's basement.

all we're trying to do here is get to the bottom of this so that the community and investors can understand and learn from the business dynamics behind what has happened.  then we could adjust and potentially save ourselves lots of headaches and money in setting up projects and we'd know better who we're dealing with.

you on the otherhand are just spreading FUD, bragging about supposed accomplishments, and impeding the free flow of information which is the antithesis of what this project is all about.

so until Jered steps up and says something to the effect that he can't legally say anything more than what he has already, then yes, you should STFU.  if and when he does, then i'll be glad to STFU.

did it ever occur to your that this information might help Bitcoin supporters behave legitimately, professionally, and legally to set up businesses that gov'ts might not go after?  or, as your name suggests, is secrecy and anarchy the only means to achieve success?

Wow..what a load of bull. Got any other unfounded accusations, cypherdoc?

Please explain your attacks. I have to laugh at the way you go after me. My "style" is the problem? I'm not "polished"? Anyone with 2 brain cells can see that those are empty ad hominem attacks.

And isn't the whole "mom's basement" thing played out as a keyboard warrior line?

do you even realize what you said?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=63749.msg755504#msg755504

Quote

Quote
all we're trying to do here is get to the bottom of this so that the community and investors can understand and learn from the business dynamics behind what has happened.  then we could adjust and potentially save ourselves lots of headaches and money in setting up projects and we'd know better who we're dealing with.

If you want to learn about this stuff, start your own exchange. Do your own bit to change the nation's monetary system.


oh ok, so the only way we're ALLOWED to learn according to you is by repeating the same mistakes of the past w/o trying to learn from others experience.  that attitude says it all.  STFU.
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February 18, 2012, 03:04:48 PM
 #87

You are saying I might be a Fed, but you are saying that I'm a dork in my mom's basement for thinking the Feds may have gone after Tradehill? Or are you saying that Feds indeed are dorks in their mom's basement? Can you clarify?

I'm saying that your main point - that businesses should not share information with the public about legal action being taken against them - plays right into the government's hands. It strengthens the terror-inducing power of the big bad unknown forces, without answering any questions. You then framed that by saying these customers should STFU and stop asking, which is an insult to them and an attempt to shut down legitimate debate on the subject.

And AFAIK federal trolls impersonate people in a basements all the time, so I don't see a contradiction there. Doesn't matter, though - telling everyone who's asking serious questions to STFU is practically doing their job for them. The only way we're going to clear the corporate corruption in government is by shining a light on who's pulling the strings. That's the value of asking questions.

all we're trying to do here is get to the bottom of this so that the community and investors can understand and learn from the business dynamics behind what has happened.  then we could adjust and potentially save ourselves lots of headaches and money in setting up projects and we'd know better who we're dealing with.

+1

cryptoanarchist
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February 18, 2012, 04:24:20 PM
 #88

I'm saying that your main point - that businesses should not share information with the public about legal action being taken against them - plays right into the government's hands.

That's not what I said. I didn't just say "businesses", I said businesses that challenge the nation's monetary system. My MAIN POINT was that it was silly to have the same type of expectations from a bitcoin exchange as other businesses. Your statement only goes to show how you are conflating such expectations.

Quote
It strengthens the terror-inducing power of the big bad unknown forces, without answering any questions. You then framed that by saying these customers should STFU and stop asking, which is an insult to them and an attempt to shut down legitimate debate on the subject.

And AFAIK federal trolls impersonate people in a basements all the time, so I don't see a contradiction there. Doesn't matter, though - telling everyone who's asking serious questions to STFU is practically doing their job for them. The only way we're going to clear the corporate corruption in government is by shining a light on who's pulling the strings. That's the value of asking questions.

More conjecture. I'm telling people to STFU for acting like they have some right to information that they don't have a right to. If you can claim damages from Tradehill, make your case, but other than that, yeah, STFU.
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February 18, 2012, 05:15:50 PM
 #89

I'm telling people to STFU for acting like they have some right to information that they don't have a right to.
I don't see anything wrong if people act like they have some right to information. I don't see why you are so upset about that? In fact what I see is you're acting like anti-"cryptoanarchist"...

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cryptoanarchist
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February 18, 2012, 09:45:11 PM
 #90

I'm telling people to STFU for acting like they have some right to information that they don't have a right to.
I don't see anything wrong if people act like they have some right to information. I don't see why you are so upset about that? In fact what I see is you're acting like anti-"cryptoanarchist"...

Scroll back a bit. I was responding to them being overly upset at Jered. What they said wasn't nearly as polite as "STFU". I thought it was a bit over the top to say people were "kissing a loser's ass" and going after the guy like they did.
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February 18, 2012, 10:14:15 PM
 #91

I'm telling people to STFU for acting like they have some right to information that they don't have a right to.
I don't see anything wrong if people act like they have some right to information. I don't see why you are so upset about that? In fact what I see is you're acting like anti-"cryptoanarchist"...

Scroll back a bit. I was responding to them being overly upset at Jered. What they said wasn't nearly as polite as "STFU". I thought it was a bit over the top to say people were "kissing a loser's ass" and going after the guy like they did.

flaxceed was the only one who said anything like that.  the rest of us are just asking questions w/o criticism against Jered about what happened since it would help the community.  so quit flipping out and acting like you have some inside knowledge of whats happened to them with your FUD.

contrast what you're offering up vs. useful info like whats been given by BitcoinExpress.
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February 27, 2012, 06:35:35 AM
 #92


All of you folk who want to know in detail the issues behind trying to run a Bitcoin exchange might consider starting one yourselves and finding out first hand. 

We are lucky that we found out what we did from Tradehill about the Dwolla fiasco.  Tradehill would have had to tell us something about why they dumped Dwolla, but we got a pretty good picture of things before they clammed up (particularly those who hit the Mountain View meetup.)  There are two reasons why it would be inadvisable for Tradehill to bare all, and I don't think that either are any particular secret.

1)  Unfortunately, the business being what it is, it burns bridges to share the dirty laundry with the general gaggle of plebs.

2)  The details and intricacies of the business are hard won 'trade secrets' in much the same way that the suppliers of a retailer are.  Assuming that the Tradehill guys intend to pursue endeavors in related fields going forward, the knowledge gained in running Tradehill gives them a well earned advantage.

I'm as curious as the next guy, but Jered et-al owe me nothing...as long as the check I got when I arrived home just now does not bounce Smiley


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February 29, 2012, 08:27:39 PM
 #93

...
I'm as curious as the next guy, but Jered et-al owe me nothing...as long as the check I got when I arrived home just now does not bounce Smiley


Just for the record, the check didn't bounce.  Between USD and BTC, Tradehill returned around $2500 in value to me with no muss, no fuss, no bother.  Jered and co join ~weex as individual who I would tend to have confidence in in future business dealings.


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March 01, 2012, 02:00:43 AM
 #94

Got my balance back from Tradehill no problem. I'd do business with them again.   Smiley
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March 01, 2012, 04:48:20 PM
 #95

Any idea when the new site opens at Bitcoin.com?

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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April 07, 2012, 03:39:05 PM
 #96

@bitcon - if it's submitted you should be fine. If you don't get it in a few days let us know.

@bitcool - that's somewhat the idea, we'll see what we can do while avoiding the banks. The exchange market monopoly needs to be broken up either by a decentralized system or more decent exchanges. That's not a shot at Gox and I doubt they would take it as such. It's just adhering to the principal of Bitcoin.

@keyur - Thanks, I appreciate it, I haven't seen you around as much recently and I hope things are going well. Stay in touch and let me know if you're in San Francisco anytime.

@badbear - Thanks, other than legal risks running it in to the ground isn't going to help anyone. Well said.

@finway - if you've got an account with us we added it as a withdrawal option. I've had a few people ask so I'll add a Bitcoin address as well.  Donation address: 13Lvy1CCHi7fYHHVarGvuXnSg3ZccvGmyg



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April 07, 2012, 04:05:37 PM
 #97

I am sorry to hear this Jered. I hope to see your new site up soon. I sent ya a coin.
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November 08, 2013, 07:50:45 PM
 #98

Hi,
I am still waiting for my funds to be returned by Tradehill / Jered Kenna. About 6 months ago I sent an email to Tradehill, Jered responded, confirmed my account balance and requested a BTC address so he could send the funds. He said he would send out the funds but never did. I have sent multiple gentle 'reminder' emails to both his address and the info address but have never received a response.
Has anyone heard from him or received funds recently?
Thanks

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November 09, 2013, 01:57:18 AM
 #99

Hi,
I am still waiting for my funds to be returned by Tradehill / Jered Kenna. About 6 months ago I sent an email to Tradehill, Jered responded, confirmed my account balance and requested a BTC address so he could send the funds. He said he would send out the funds but never did. I have sent multiple gentle 'reminder' emails to both his address and the info address but have never received a response.
Has anyone heard from him or received funds recently?
Thanks

I got the run-around whereby I was sent to different e-mail addresses, then finally no response.  Next step is the lawyers...
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November 09, 2013, 03:24:42 AM
 #100

ixne: If you do pursue that option please contact me; I am starting to think your option might be necessary.
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