TradeHill - shutting down trading / deposits and returning all client funds

[m3ta]

I won't shed a tear for some incompetent losers who take several weeks to reply to emails sent to support@.

Also, DIAF.

[tvbcof]

For the record, Tradehill was the only exchange I used except for a bit of dabbling on with bitmarket.eu early on before I did major purchases.

A small fraction of the time Tradehill would take longer on something than their stated timings, but a quick probe always got things finished right away.  More often in my case, things went a lot quicker than stated.

Tradehill persons have always courteous and professional to me and either implemented my suggestions or took the time to tell me why they were a non-workable idea.

I know that there were occasional system problems, but I never happened to have been effected by them.  Lucky timing.

I never tried to withdraw USD so I cannot speak to that aspect of the business.  Sounds like it was at times a nightmare for both the requestor and Tradehill from what I read on this forum.

In sum, I am very sorry to see Tradehill shutter their doors, and will be delighted if there is an opportunity to do business with the team in the future.  Or will be if they do indeed refund the balances in my account at least

Thanks, Tradehill, for serving my needs well during the time that I was interested in acquiring BTC.

[cryptoanarchist]

If you start a bitcoin exchange, you should go into it with the clear intention of breaking the rules. Have a plan for how to work around government regulations, not comply with them. Otherwise, they'll just put you out of business.

[PrintCoins]

There will always be meat-space:

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/In_Person_Traders

I don't like to use exchanges myself, but I think they are critical for a currency. They establish an exchange rate, allow outsiders to easily get into a currency, and provide confidence that you can get out of a currency if it isn't working for you.

In the end though, I think that all exchanges are doomed to failure. The banking and monetary systems control the government and make the rules. Bitcoin treads heavily in their territory and if successful would be extremely destructive to their business. The only reason it has not been shut out completely from the financial system is that it is currently small potatoes.

[Narydu]

I've been doing almost all my transactions over TH. I has been always an excelent experience. I've been talking to Adam personally and know the SEVERAL other problems that had been aking TH during the past months and that you never passed them along but they limited your chances to grow and evolve beyond your own personal unpaid time and efforts.

I know about your bitcoin.com's proyect, intresting things and people are crumbling up. As I told you once, Bitcoin.com is not a site it is a RESPONSABILITY (I know MUCH about this specific "responsability", believe me) and given I know you, and this thread has had only 2 "TH negative like" posts over 80 posts, I think we all trust you and that you have been doing the things right.

Bitcoin.com is yours but let everyone feel part of it! Many people in here are specialists in some areas, and many here have time and funds to provide. Bitcoins is huge if we make it huge and bitcoin.com must be relevant to this revolution.

So I call every holder of small amounts on TH to donate to your/our cause. Me my self I will donate $100 from my balance and 100BTC and every specialist willing to help bitcoin to donate his time.

Good luck again.

[cryptoanarchist]

Christ Jered, am I ever going to get my LR funds back?

[flaxceed]

It's kind of strange that people feel compelled to stand up for Jered now considering the guy was a ghost and left all of his customers twisting in the wind for a month.  I just don't understand why you people want to get on this thread and kiss the loser's ass.

[cryptoanarchist]

It's kind of strange that people feel compelled to stand up for Jered now considering the guy was a ghost and left all of his customers twisting in the wind for a month.  I just don't understand why you people want to get on this thread and kiss the loser's ass.

That's pretty harsh. Anyone who promotes a system that undermines the nation's fiat system is going to have to deal with infiltration and disruption from high level federal agents. You have no idea what shit is being thrown at these people and what they have to deal with.

[cypherdoc]

It's kind of strange that people feel compelled to stand up for Jered now considering the guy was a ghost and left all of his customers twisting in the wind for a month.  I just don't understand why you people want to get on this thread and kiss the loser's ass.

That's pretty harsh. Anyone who promotes a system that undermines the nation's fiat system is going to have to deal with infiltration and disruption from high level federal agents. You have no idea what shit is being thrown at these people and what they have to deal with.

well actually, i'm waiting for him to tell us exactly what that sh*t is.  i'm curious to know if it was significant or not.  and why haven't we heard more about the processor who supposed stole $100K from TH?  the whole community could learn quite a bit about what's going on if Jered would tell us.

[disclaimer201]

It's kind of strange that people feel compelled to stand up for Jered now considering the guy was a ghost and left all of his customers twisting in the wind for a month.  I just don't understand why you people want to get on this thread and kiss the loser's ass.

That's pretty harsh. Anyone who promotes a system that undermines the nation's fiat system is going to have to deal with infiltration and disruption from high level federal agents. You have no idea what shit is being thrown at these people and what they have to deal with.

well actually, i'm waiting for him to tell us exactly what that sh*t is.  i'm curious to know if it was significant or not.  and why haven't we heard more about the processor who supposed stole $100K from TH?  the whole community could learn quite a bit about what's going on if Jered would tell us.

Paxum was forced to abandon all BTC business. TH doesn't even need to pin down one single entity for the 100k loss. The suspension of SEPA probably cost them a significant percentage of business, then all that other stuff on top of it. TH must have lost money left and right. Who would work for free for several days, weeks or even months?

[ssaCEO]

Well, no one should work for free...except me, I guess

I haven't really sounded off about this, and maybe for the best, but I'll say while I can appreciate the pressures that were likely brought to bear on TradeHill, it would be a real public service for the community to know exactly what they were and how things went down. It does none of us any good to sit here and speculate about exactly what the final straw was, and it's stupid to talk about shadowy forces and conspiracies, when a lot of things could be explained by a series of bad breaks, inquiries and temporary seizures initiated by a few bank branch managers acting independently.

There's been some talk - pure speculation in our own legal circle - that TradeHill may actually be under a sealed grand jury indictment and unable to talk openly about their situation. Obviously they can't respond to this if that's the case, but I'd be interested to hear if it's not the case, and I think it would put some of the grander "great powers" conspiracies to rest.

It's not easy to eke out a living with a tiny, volatile, fledgling market like Bitcoin; and even less so if you're taking abuse from your payment processors while trying to hold your customers' accounts intact and maintain your reputation. Despite their lack of communication at the end (which again, I think may not have been their choice but rather imposed by a court - time will tell), TradeHill never acted with malice or took anything from their customers. It will be interesting to know if our conjecture was accurate, but again we might not find that out for awhile.

[ssaCEO]

Paypal's HQ is in San Jose and the District Attorney in charge of consumer fraud used to be one of the first corporate attornies for Paypal.

So, that's a yes, they're under indictment? On what charges?

[Boussac]

Paypal's HQ is in San Jose and the District Attorney in charge of consumer fraud used to be one of the first corporate attornies for Paypal.

Another example of the financial lobby at work is the so-called FATF. An organisation whose sole purpose in life is to promote legislations that protect the incumbents of the financial system.
here is a gem from their most recent piece of ...: they are writing about prevention of money laundering and terrorism:
"In the case of financial institutions, such a risk assessment should take place prior to the launch of the new products, business practices or the use of new or developing technologies."

see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=64201.0

[trentzb]

as I said before, communication from TH will ultimately determine whether rev2 will succeed or fail.

[ssaCEO]

Again, it's useless to blame a lobby or a government unless we know what's going on, and I still haven't heard a response. Indictment? Yes or no, and by what country and on what charge?

Anyone who leaps to conclusions without having the basic facts is only doing damage by setting up straw-men.

[cryptoanarchist]

It's kind of strange that people feel compelled to stand up for Jered now considering the guy was a ghost and left all of his customers twisting in the wind for a month.  I just don't understand why you people want to get on this thread and kiss the loser's ass.

That's pretty harsh. Anyone who promotes a system that undermines the nation's fiat system is going to have to deal with infiltration and disruption from high level federal agents. You have no idea what shit is being thrown at these people and what they have to deal with.

well actually, i'm waiting for him to tell us exactly what that sh*t is.  i'm curious to know if it was significant or not.  and why haven't we heard more about the processor who supposed stole $100K from TH?  the whole community could learn quite a bit about what's going on if Jered would tell us.

From my experience fighting the federal government, its not always that simple. First, bringing all their problems to the forum would be a horrible idea. Most of what the government is doing to monetary revolutionaries isn't overt legal action, but covert disruption. Tradehill probably isn't sure themselves who the infiltrators in their organization are. Trying to bring that kind of thing to the forum would not only reveal their cards, but could also lead to infighting and other complicated issues, not to mention further speculation on this forum from trolls that would only cause further damage.

Most of you who complain work regular jobs and pay taxes to a corrupt government who uses your money to blow people up. Most of you have never stuck your neck out at all to change things in this country. Most of you need to STFU and be happy bitcoins and bitcoin exchanges even exist at all.

Bitcoin exchanges are part of a financial war that will determine the future of the entire globe. Stop acting like its all supposed to function like regular businesses. Realize that like any war there are going to be risks, and that you might get hurt.

[cypherdoc]

It's kind of strange that people feel compelled to stand up for Jered now considering the guy was a ghost and left all of his customers twisting in the wind for a month.  I just don't understand why you people want to get on this thread and kiss the loser's ass.

That's pretty harsh. Anyone who promotes a system that undermines the nation's fiat system is going to have to deal with infiltration and disruption from high level federal agents. You have no idea what shit is being thrown at these people and what they have to deal with.

well actually, i'm waiting for him to tell us exactly what that sh*t is.  i'm curious to know if it was significant or not.  and why haven't we heard more about the processor who supposed stole $100K from TH?  the whole community could learn quite a bit about what's going on if Jered would tell us.

From my experience fighting the federal government, its not always that simple. First, bringing all their problems to the forum would be a horrible idea. Most of what the government is doing to monetary revolutionaries isn't overt legal action, but covert disruption. Tradehill probably isn't sure themselves who the infiltrators in their organization are. Trying to bring that kind of thing to the forum would not only reveal their cards, but could also lead to infighting and other complicated issues, not to mention further speculation on this forum from trolls that would only cause further damage.

Most of you who complain work regular jobs and pay taxes to a corrupt government who uses your money to blow people up. Most of you have never stuck your neck out at all to change things in this country. Most of you need to STFU and be happy bitcoins and bitcoin exchanges even exist at all.

Bitcoin exchanges are part of a financial war that will determine the future of the entire globe. Stop acting like its all supposed to function like regular businesses. Realize that like any war there are going to be risks, and that you might get hurt.

well, first of all he's the one who brought up the payment processor who supposedly "stole", "withheld" $100K so we're only waiting to hear more about what he already promised to enlighten us with.  so lets start with that before you start slinging more arrows.

[cryptoanarchist]

well, first of all he's the one who brought up the payment processor who supposedly "stole", "withheld" $100K so we're only waiting to hear more about what he already promised to enlighten us with.  so lets start with that before you start slinging more arrows.

I'm not the one slinging arrows. I'm trying to hold up a shield against those who are a little too critical of people who DO stick their necks out. Bernard von Nothaus is about to go to prison for the rest of his life for attempting to compete with the federal monetary system, and the feds publicly stated that they were going to undermine all other efforts through infiltration and disruption.

Tradehill has ZERO obligation to tell you about who ripped them off. Would a General at war tell all his troops all the details they've collected from intel, or only what they need to know? Like I said before, you simply don't understand what these people are up against.

Their are only two types of people who start bitcoin exchanges, and neither are petty scammers. They are either government controlled opposition (I suspect Intersango/Britcoin among others), or they are super genius people who are trying to change the world. Your criticism is foolish if they are the former, downright disrespectful if they are the latter.

[ssaCEO]

From my experience fighting the federal government, its not always that simple. First, bringing all their problems to the forum would be a horrible idea. Most of what the government is doing to monetary revolutionaries isn't overt legal action, but covert disruption. Tradehill probably isn't sure themselves who the infiltrators in their organization are.

Okay, you're saying they were infiltrated? Can you back up that claim, and/or why do you think that? Who at TH was working for a government? Because frankly this sounds childish, paranoid and stupid if you know how the US gov't works (excluding the secret part that's persecuting you, of course).

Most of you who complain work regular jobs and pay taxes to a corrupt government who uses your money to blow people up. Most of you have never stuck your neck out at all to change things in this country. Most of you need to STFU and be happy bitcoins and bitcoin exchanges even exist at all.

Actually, what we need is to have a serious conversation without injecting absurd levels of FUD. And not everyone in this conversation's an armchair spectator raving about revolution and infowar from their basement. Your whole post - and I speak as a paranoid person myself - smacks of counterintel. It's off the charts on my bullshit meter. Maybe you're just insane, but it's much more likely you're a plant for the people you're ranting about, trying to make all bitcoiners sound like paranoid freaks.

And for the record, TradeHill's people are not "generals". Nor is this a "war". Bitcoin is a gnat's fart compared to Liberty Reserve. It's possible that non-conventional modes of pressure might have been applied to TradeHill here; I'd like to hear about it. What I don't accept is that an organization that's clearly done nothing wrong, who is in the right, would want to conceal from their users and colleagues the circumstances that led to the situation they find themselves in. Unless of course they're not allowed to talk about it.

All your FUD does is stifle meaningful conversation; in fact, stifling it and telling everyone to STFU seems to have been the point of your post. Why don't you STFU and stop ranting and speculating, at least long enough to dig for some real information? Or is real information antithetical to your little red-herring mission on this board?

Jared made the mistake of getting right in their faces here in San Francisco. He ran massive ads that Trade Hill was expanding and hiring engineers, data base people and CSR's. He boasted of investors and an SF Financial District Expansion Plan. He basically talked a lot of shit at the Bitcoin Meetups and ran too many employment ads on Craigslist, Monster and Careerbuilder. He literally drew the line in the sand with big boys and they pounced him. He worked hard to get their attention and he got it.

Now we're getting somewhere. But that and a nickel don't mean shit if they didn't break any laws. Sure, it might have been unwise to incorporate where they did, but a consumer fraud investigation and a gag order are two very different things.

[Desolator]

There's been some talk - pure speculation in our own legal circle - that TradeHill may actually be under a sealed grand jury indictment and unable to talk openly about their situation

Hmm, too bad they didn't throw me onto the document, lol.  This is my post copied over from the MTGox privacy policy post, which you should read because it puts this into context:

In case you haven't read outside sources of news about this situation, this is the true story.  You won't hear this from any of them so listen up.  There's something in America called the Banking Secrecy Act.  It requires anyone who "transfers money" in significant amounts to record user information.  It's to keep rich, unspeakably greedy assholes from hiding their money from taxes because...you know, they just can't live without that extra $100k so they have to hide it offshore.

Anyway, MTGox is Japanese but if you want to do business in America, you have to follow the BSA rules.  Nobody has forced them to follow the rules because it's a lot harder but that's exactly what happened to the California-based Tradehill.  The US gov investigated silently then told their main bank to lock their account pending an investigation of their BSA compliance then said they can't talk about it.

So if the US tells a Japanese bank that, they'll ignore it without threats or political pressure.  But to make it appear in the meantime that they're complying, they did that.  Or the US sent them directly some kind of "scary" message and they're scrambling to not cause problems.

Either way, I'm finding a new exchange.