Butterfly labs delays, refunds, and message blocking

[Inrideo]

Hopefully nobody reading this has invested in any Butterfly labs equipment since the math started showing that it wouldn't be anything more than a paperweight.

Anyway, I tried seeking a refund last month after waiting four months when they had originally predicted release by the end of January. After five days with no response I contacted the Wyoming Attorney General's office, since BFL claims to be a Wyoming company. Well, they may be registered there, but the AG for Wyoming says they do not actual business in the state so referred me to the Kansas AG instead.

I made a point of CCing my correspondence to both parties.

So BFL has now put a moderation flag on my forum account so I can't post. They don't want me telling anyone to contact the attorney general either. So I'll do it here.

If you pre-ordered a card and they've been holding on to your money they do not have the right to do so. If there's no product in your hand the sale is NOT final.

[odolvlobo]

Wow, are they still having delivery problems? And people are still buying equipment from them?

[Ron~Popeil]

Man I am so glad I never pulled the trigger on an order I was thinking about. They need to be sued out of existence.

[sgbett]

So many people know so much about manufacturing ASICs I'm surprised they haven't started their own company.

[nickenburg]

I only invested 20 dollars together with a friend of mine.
In the mining contracts from Butterfly Labs.
Probably a mistake we are still waiting till the contracts are activated.

But you guys have it even worser you bought heave mining equipment with some expensive price tags.
I only invested a small amount and i feel sorry for the ones that invested big with this company they still have to wait.
So atleast they should deliver when they say they do, or no one will trust them again.
 

[Inrideo]

I only invested in one monarch and that was a lot to me.
I feel a lot of empathy for the guys who sunk many times that into the hardware back when it looked like they could get a decent ROI.

[TrillionBTC]

So many people know so much about manufacturing ASICs I'm surprised they haven't started their own company.

I have to agree with this guy. sgbett you're right on man. Additionally BFL never indicated an exact delivery date on their pre-ordered products. In fact their site CLEARLY discourages anyone from placing a pre-order with them.

Here's their exact statement on pre-ordered products strait from their website:

Shipping Schedule
This is a Pre-Order product which is not yet shipping.  If you're uncomfortable waiting until the development is complete and the product is shipped, do NOT pre-order this product. Perhaps undesirable, but this is a pre-order market.  Customers flatly demand to get in line for the new technology before it's finished development.  This has created a lot of drama for the manufacturers but it's something we simply have to deal with.  All manufacturers in this space have experienced some degree of delay with their first generation ASIC.  Every last one of them, so we're reluctant to give a specific delivery date.

One last thing. Inrideo... BFL has always been in Kansas. Where did you get Wyoming? No wonder you're upset you obviously can not read.

[Inrideo]

Their FAQ states they are a Wyoming registered company.

"As a Wyoming Corporation, we operate under the US Federal Trade Commission's business guide for mail or telephone ordered merchandise.  The relevant guideline suggests that if no delivery terms are stated or agreed to, then 30 days should be assumed.  In our case, we've gone to great length to ensure there is no ambiguity.  Customers are/were notified of the back order situation, the inability to cancel their order and the multi month wait to be expected.
Here is the relevant FTC guideline text:
"when you advertise merchandise, you must have a reasonable basis for stating or implying that you can ship within a certain time. If you make no shipment statement, you must have a reasonable basis for believing that you can ship within 30 days."


Wyoming lets anyone register there as a tax dodge apparently.

As per that part of their FAQ, their statements about expected release dates on their forums at the time of ordering framed the expected supply date.

So stick your condescension where your head is.

[sgbett]

Their FAQ states they are a Wyoming registered company.

"As a Wyoming Corporation, we operate under the US Federal Trade Commission's business guide for mail or telephone ordered merchandise.  The relevant guideline suggests that if no delivery terms are stated or agreed to, then 30 days should be assumed.  In our case, we've gone to great length to ensure there is no ambiguity.  Customers are/were notified of the back order situation, the inability to cancel their order and the multi month wait to be expected.
Here is the relevant FTC guideline text:
"when you advertise merchandise, you must have a reasonable basis for stating or implying that you can ship within a certain time. If you make no shipment statement, you must have a reasonable basis for believing that you can ship within 30 days."


Wyoming lets anyone register there as a tax dodge apparently.

As per that part of their FAQ, their statements about expected release dates on their forums at the time of ordering framed the expected supply date.

So stick your condescension where your head is.

So hurt. much butt.

Caveat emptor.

I see two scenarios:

1. You knew what you were getting into, now you are upset the gamble didn't pay off so you are throwing your toys out the pram.
2. You threw "a lot of money" (your words) at something without knowing what you were getting into and now feel stupid. Which would be true.

Using the word condescension implies you are on some high ground. Tell me the elusive and unconsidered 3rd scenario that I have missed where you are the hero and the bad guys are out to get you, and we should all be on your side.

[PolarPoint]

I have not been into bitcoin for very long, but I know not to order anything from BFL. They are the most publicised asic manufacturer for delays and non delivery. Threads on BFL get bumped to the top of this forum everyday. If only someone cared to click on any one of them, he would know not to order from them. So, why are people still pre ordering from BFL?

[sgbett]

Well *some* people are well aware of those risks, and have an appetite for such risk, and know full well when the gamble doesn't pay off not to bitch and whine but to accept that nobody made me.. er them do it.

Like they might have bought goxcoins on gox before the demise because they though there might be some +EV in it.

Like they might have bought goxcoins on btcbuilder before god's demise for the same reason.

Like they might have bought bit coins in 2011 for the same reason.

Some of these things *could* pay off, some of these things may not. All this quibbling of bitcoin ROI but people rarely consider the 'bitcoin to zero' risk. That would be a rude awakening to people who thought that buying a monarch was "risky".

FDIC/FSA regulated brokers and banks are more than happy to take people's money for investment purposes if they want 'safety'.

And if you believe that, then I have this pink sheet to sell you...