Will Bitcoin ever be more than a 'fringe' asset?

[miztaziggy]

I have long thought positive thoughts when it comes to Bitcoin. In theory it's a really good thing.

A few recent events have started to shake my belief slightly, for the following reasons:

- Although there is more acceptance, there doesn't seem to be a growing 'mainstream' acceptance. It is still too difficult to use and way too difficult to understand for the vast majority of people.

- There's no incentive for buyers to use Bitcoin. Why spend one's fiat to buy Bitcoin to spend on a product when one could just spend the fiat directly? By buying Bitcoin to buy a product, one will likely be paying more in fees via companies such as Bitpay and losing out on any sort of 'buyer protection' offered by credit card companies.

- Too many clones and copies are diluting the market and causing even more confusion among 'ordinary' people that don't understand the difference.

- Talk of impending financial collapse in the US and the collapse of the dollar at first would appear positive for Bitcoin. When one takes into account the likelihood of civil unrest leading to martial law and the internet kill switch, suddenly a hoard of Bitcoins look less like the smart move.

- The expectation of massive growth in the price deters use of Bitcoins. I made the mistake of paying 2 Bitcoin for something a year ago to pay the equivalent of 30 Euro, if I had kept the 2 BTC I would have had closer to 1500 Euro.

- The only reason the authorities aren't taking it seriously is because it isn't big enough to do any real damage. Once it is, who can honestly say that the US/China/Russia won't shut Bitcoin down. Pah!! Shut Bitcoin down? That's impossible.....well, no, not really. If they impose enough of a penalty for dealing in Bitcoin, the majority of people won't touch it with a barge pole, and certainly any large investors won't come within 100 miles. The extreme end to this scenario is that they force ISPs to block P2P traffic. I don't know if or how that would work, but governments are NOT going to give up their power without a fight.

- Lastly Bitcoin itself has nothing special to offer when compared to all the other copies other than it was first, but, so was Myspace and where is it now, and where is Facebook?


Don't get me wrong I am not a Bitcoin hater, I hold Bitcoin myself and I do hope that I am wrong, but these doubts are (IMO) real and quite worrying for the long term.

[1715418936]

1715418936

[Beliathon]

I have long thought positive thoughts when it comes to Bitcoin. In theory it's a really good thing.

A few recent events have started to shake my belief slightly, for the following reasons:

- Although there is more acceptance, there doesn't seem to be a growing 'mainstream' acceptance.

That's because of the ENORMOUS resistance. You have to understand the incredible power money has over our lives. There are a lot of Very Important Assholes who have a serious vested interest in their local fiat scrip! What, did you think we the people could rob them of the power of money overnight? No. They will fight this tooth and nail, long and hard. All for naught, as there is no stopping it now. The genie is out of the bottle, the cats out of the bag, pandora's box has been opened, etc.

It is still too difficult to use and way too difficult to understand for the vast majority of people.

Every day it gets easier, safer, faster, and more secure. When making investment decisions, one should not look at the present-day situation, but study the trends. See where they go. Where do you think this is going? Study hard and think carefully, because the implications of the choices you make now could be very dramatic in the near future.

There's no incentive for buyers to use Bitcoin.

Some companies are already offering discounts for Bitcoin use. Bitcoin is cheaper for businesses of all kinds to use because it is a relatively "frictionless" currency. No middle-men taking there share, either - it's just the internet. The blockchain is a truly genius innovation. I'm not smart enough to invent something like that, but I'm damn sure smart enough to recognize it! If you do your homework here, look at the mathematics, read the whitepaper, I'm sure you are too.

Why spend one's fiat to buy Bitcoin to spend on a product when one could just spend the fiat directly?

Imagine for a moment you are not a typical American citizen, and instead have some actual savings in the bank. The US dollar loses 2-4% of its value year over year due to inflation. Consistently. Bitcoin rises year over year.

Why would you keep your wealth stored in a form of money that is burning away!?  Think on it.

Talk of impending financial collapse in the US and the collapse of the dollar at first would appear positive for Bitcoin. When one takes into account the likelihood of civil unrest leading to martial law and the internet kill switch, suddenly a hoard of Bitcoins look less like the smart move.

Typical American thinking. The world is bigger than America, friend. There's a whole wide world out there, and Bitcoin is global, unlike the doomed dollar.

It's not nice to say, but the hard truth is that the currency of a military empire has literally a snowball's chance in hell of surviving in a future where war is obsolete.

And that is exactly what's coming, as we awaken to the reality of our oneness.

[miztaziggy]

Talk of impending financial collapse in the US and the collapse of the dollar at first would appear positive for Bitcoin. When one takes into account the likelihood of civil unrest leading to martial law and the internet kill switch, suddenly a hoard of Bitcoins look less like the smart move.

Typical American thinking. The world is bigger than America, friend. There's a whole wide world out there, and Bitcoin is global, unlike the doomed dollar.

It's not nice to say, but the hard truth is that the currency of a military empire has literally a snowball's chance in hell of surviving in a future where war is obsolete.

And that is exactly what's coming, as we awaken to the reality of our oneness.

I am not American.

Don't let the romantic view of Bitcoin being the savior of a post Petro-Dollar collapse world taint your view.

Turmoil, upheaval and the massive shift of wealth from the west to the east is going to be tough for a lot of people. Bitcoin will do well to survive I think, let alone prosper.

Don't underestimate the power of those that control things behind the scenes, and don't doubt that they will fight tooth and nail to retain control at all costs.

[blatchcorn]

Have some patience.

[rafamadeira]

These things takes time to happen. Be patient.

[franky1]

I have long thought positive thoughts when it comes to Bitcoin. In theory it's a really good thing.

A few recent events have started to shake my belief slightly, for the following reasons:

- Although there is more acceptance, there doesn't seem to be a growing 'mainstream' acceptance. It is still too difficult to use and way too difficult to understand for the vast majority of people.
to use: QR codes and phone app's are still developing to make it easy to use
understand: once the geeks stop showing off by talking about mining and what SHA256 is. and do the proper intro of showing how to just spend and buy bitcoins using ATM's and apps (as thats all consumers need to know) then it will be understandable.
EG decades ago no one needed lectures on the exact chemical formula of the bank note ink, or how the bank notes are printed, they just need to know how to spend bank notes.

- There's no incentive for buyers to use Bitcoin. Why spend one's fiat to buy Bitcoin to spend on a product when one could just spend the fiat directly? By buying Bitcoin to buy a product,
if i bought 1bitcoin last month instead of 9 pairs of jeans.. this month i can buy 13 pairs of jeans

one will likely be paying more in fees via companies such as Bitpay and losing out on any sort of 'buyer protection' offered by credit card companies.
your right buying bitcoin to instantly buy a product costs more. but instead of receiving your wages and saving thm up for a month to then go buy something.. if you bought bitcoin and then saved it for a month to then go buy something. you will save money

- Too many clones and copies are diluting the market and causing even more confusion among 'ordinary' people that don't understand the difference.
ordinary people wont even touch altcoins. they will just buy bitcoins and hoard them, if you tell friends to go to exchanges and play around with altcoins, your to blame for their actions. stick to the simple 'savings' explanation, do not over complicate the simplicity of bitcoins by explaining EVERYTHING, specially if the consumer will never and should never or simply see's no need to use it

- Talk of impending financial collapse in the US and the collapse of the dollar at first would appear positive for Bitcoin. When one takes into account the likelihood of civil unrest leading to martial law and the internet kill switch, suddenly a hoard of Bitcoins look less like the smart move.
take your tin foil hat off and stop dreaming of apocalypses.

- The expectation of massive growth in the price deters use of Bitcoins. I made the mistake of paying 2 Bitcoin for something a year ago to pay the equivalent of 30 Euro, if I had kept the 2 BTC I would have had closer to 1500 Euro.
if you kept 30 Euros as Euros.. last year you could have bought atleast 30 loaves of bread. now spend your 30 Euro's and you will see you will get less loaves

- The only reason the authorities aren't taking it seriously is because it isn't big enough to do any real damage. Once it is, who can honestly say that the US/China/Russia won't shut Bitcoin down. Pah!! Shut Bitcoin down? That's impossible.....well, no, not really. If they impose enough of a penalty for dealing in Bitcoin, the majority of people won't touch it with a barge pole, and certainly any large investors won't come within 100 miles. The extreme end to this scenario is that they force ISPs to block P2P traffic. I don't know if or how that would work, but governments are NOT going to give up their power without a fight.
governments done a real big job with making file downloads illegal. heck itunes, google, netflix is making megabucks out of file downloads AFTER the 2000 Digital millennium copyright act

- Lastly Bitcoin itself has nothing special to offer when compared to all the other copies other than it was first, but, so was Myspace and where is it now, and where is Facebook?
wow, if you hate bitcoin so much, donate all your coins to seans outpost and move on with your life. as for what bitcoin offers that altcoins does not.
1. proper developers that have coded bitcoin line by line. altcoins are just script kiddies altering 3 lines of code.
2. coinmaps, exchanges, localbitcoins. all are able to swap fiat for bitcoins. altcoins cannot really be bought with fiat direct
3. shopping carts, merchant gateways, payment tools. all aimd for bitcoin only
3. merchants using bitcoin and sticking with bitcoin. name me a altcoin with atleast 1000 merchants. (bitcoin has maybe 100,000)

fuck it, i have a question for you. coca-cola has been round for so long, there are immitations (pepsi) which have big PR behind it, there are cheap variations (stores own brand soda) yet coca-cola is still around, so dont think everything dies or gets replaced.


Don't get me wrong I am not a Bitcoin hater, I hold Bitcoin myself and I do hope that I am wrong, but these doubts are (IMO) real and quite worrying for the long term.
you do sound like a hater. and the long term picture is actually more positive then the short term.. maybe its time you research more and dream less.

[Ron~Popeil]

I have long thought positive thoughts when it comes to Bitcoin. In theory it's a really good thing.

A few recent events have started to shake my belief slightly, for the following reasons:

- Although there is more acceptance, there doesn't seem to be a growing 'mainstream' acceptance. It is still too difficult to use and way too difficult to understand for the vast majority of people.

- There's no incentive for buyers to use Bitcoin. Why spend one's fiat to buy Bitcoin to spend on a product when one could just spend the fiat directly? By buying Bitcoin to buy a product, one will likely be paying more in fees via companies such as Bitpay and losing out on any sort of 'buyer protection' offered by credit card companies.

- Too many clones and copies are diluting the market and causing even more confusion among 'ordinary' people that don't understand the difference.

- Talk of impending financial collapse in the US and the collapse of the dollar at first would appear positive for Bitcoin. When one takes into account the likelihood of civil unrest leading to martial law and the internet kill switch, suddenly a hoard of Bitcoins look less like the smart move.

- The expectation of massive growth in the price deters use of Bitcoins. I made the mistake of paying 2 Bitcoin for something a year ago to pay the equivalent of 30 Euro, if I had kept the 2 BTC I would have had closer to 1500 Euro.

- The only reason the authorities aren't taking it seriously is because it isn't big enough to do any real damage. Once it is, who can honestly say that the US/China/Russia won't shut Bitcoin down. Pah!! Shut Bitcoin down? That's impossible.....well, no, not really. If they impose enough of a penalty for dealing in Bitcoin, the majority of people won't touch it with a barge pole, and certainly any large investors won't come within 100 miles. The extreme end to this scenario is that they force ISPs to block P2P traffic. I don't know if or how that would work, but governments are NOT going to give up their power without a fight.

- Lastly Bitcoin itself has nothing special to offer when compared to all the other copies other than it was first, but, so was Myspace and where is it now, and where is Facebook?


Don't get me wrong I am not a Bitcoin hater, I hold Bitcoin myself and I do hope that I am wrong, but these doubts are (IMO) real and quite worrying for the long term.

Elmer FUD is here!

Acceptance and main steam adoption is all around you if you take the time to look. Millions of dollars in fiat are melting into bit coin as we speak.

[Este Nuno]

I have long thought positive thoughts when it comes to Bitcoin. In theory it's a really good thing.

A few recent events have started to shake my belief slightly, for the following reasons:

- Although there is more acceptance, there doesn't seem to be a growing 'mainstream' acceptance. It is still too difficult to use and way too difficult to understand for the vast majority of people.

- There's no incentive for buyers to use Bitcoin. Why spend one's fiat to buy Bitcoin to spend on a product when one could just spend the fiat directly? By buying Bitcoin to buy a product, one will likely be paying more in fees via companies such as Bitpay and losing out on any sort of 'buyer protection' offered by credit card companies.

- Too many clones and copies are diluting the market and causing even more confusion among 'ordinary' people that don't understand the difference.

- Talk of impending financial collapse in the US and the collapse of the dollar at first would appear positive for Bitcoin. When one takes into account the likelihood of civil unrest leading to martial law and the internet kill switch, suddenly a hoard of Bitcoins look less like the smart move.

- The expectation of massive growth in the price deters use of Bitcoins. I made the mistake of paying 2 Bitcoin for something a year ago to pay the equivalent of 30 Euro, if I had kept the 2 BTC I would have had closer to 1500 Euro.

- The only reason the authorities aren't taking it seriously is because it isn't big enough to do any real damage. Once it is, who can honestly say that the US/China/Russia won't shut Bitcoin down. Pah!! Shut Bitcoin down? That's impossible.....well, no, not really. If they impose enough of a penalty for dealing in Bitcoin, the majority of people won't touch it with a barge pole, and certainly any large investors won't come within 100 miles. The extreme end to this scenario is that they force ISPs to block P2P traffic. I don't know if or how that would work, but governments are NOT going to give up their power without a fight.

- Lastly Bitcoin itself has nothing special to offer when compared to all the other copies other than it was first, but, so was Myspace and where is it now, and where is Facebook?


Don't get me wrong I am not a Bitcoin hater, I hold Bitcoin myself and I do hope that I am wrong, but these doubts are (IMO) real and quite worrying for the long term.

I think these are all reasonable points. But the longer time goes on without the government taking a hard stance against bitcoin the less likely that it's going to happen. So far bitcoin as had very little resistance as far as attempts by governments to stop it goes. Even if it is only a fringe currency, it's still slowly growing in mainstream acceptance. It's not an all or nothing proposition. If bitcoin was in ten years used for 5% of American transactions that would be a victory as far as I'm concerned. And the way it's designed it's going to be hard to stop people from using it as a store of value(which is fine, it's the one thing that looks to be almost guaranteed at this point). If it propagates to the point where governments decide that it's in their interest to hold some bitcoin in reserve that's another huge victory. There's lots of ways this can play out, mainstream or not things are looking very positive these days.

[miztaziggy]

Elmer FUD is here!

Acceptance and main steam adoption is all around you if you take the time to look. Millions of dollars in fiat are melting into bit coin as we speak.

You see this is just a fan boy response, totally blinkered to the reality of it all.

As I say I am not a bitcoin hater, look back at my old posts, I have had Bitcoin since 2010 and I have spent thousands and thousands on mining equipment. I believe in the ideal, but I don't agree with how Bitcoin is progressing.


As for the other guy's arguments about buying bitcoin, holding a month and then buying effectively cheaper products.....bah that is such a bad argument.

One - the price can totally collapse as well as go up
Two - if it's going up, why sell at the end of one month and buy those jeans? Why not wait another month and buy 2 pairs, or wait 6 months and buy a boat? The volatility both ways is not good for Bitcoin in use as a form of currency.

[exocytosis]

I share all of your concerns, miztaziggy.

[BittBurger]

I have long thought positive thoughts when it comes to Bitcoin. In theory it's a really good thing.

A few recent events have started to shake my belief slightly, for the following reasons:

- Although there is more acceptance, there doesn't seem to be a growing 'mainstream' acceptance. It is still too difficult to use and way too difficult to understand for the vast majority of people.

- There's no incentive for buyers to use Bitcoin. Why spend one's fiat to buy Bitcoin to spend on a product when one could just spend the fiat directly? By buying Bitcoin to buy a product, one will likely be paying more in fees via companies such as Bitpay and losing out on any sort of 'buyer protection' offered by credit card companies.

- Too many clones and copies are diluting the market and causing even more confusion among 'ordinary' people that don't understand the difference.

- Talk of impending financial collapse in the US and the collapse of the dollar at first would appear positive for Bitcoin. When one takes into account the likelihood of civil unrest leading to martial law and the internet kill switch, suddenly a hoard of Bitcoins look less like the smart move.

- The expectation of massive growth in the price deters use of Bitcoins. I made the mistake of paying 2 Bitcoin for something a year ago to pay the equivalent of 30 Euro, if I had kept the 2 BTC I would have had closer to 1500 Euro.

- The only reason the authorities aren't taking it seriously is because it isn't big enough to do any real damage. Once it is, who can honestly say that the US/China/Russia won't shut Bitcoin down. Pah!! Shut Bitcoin down? That's impossible.....well, no, not really. If they impose enough of a penalty for dealing in Bitcoin, the majority of people won't touch it with a barge pole, and certainly any large investors won't come within 100 miles. The extreme end to this scenario is that they force ISPs to block P2P traffic. I don't know if or how that would work, but governments are NOT going to give up their power without a fight.

- Lastly Bitcoin itself has nothing special to offer when compared to all the other copies other than it was first, but, so was Myspace and where is it now, and where is Facebook?


Don't get me wrong I am not a Bitcoin hater, I hold Bitcoin myself and I do hope that I am wrong, but these doubts are (IMO) real and quite worrying for the long term.

1)  Merchant adoption has to come first.   That's the stage we are in.  Once that has gone mainstream (which it is right now), people wont need to use fiat to buy.

2)  Hopefully second phase will be people getting paid in Bitcoin, and merchants creating incentives to buy with Bitcoin.  This will require ease of use to go up.  Usability is the #1 target of current startups.  Once its easy to acquire and spend,

3)  There can be alt coins out the ass.   Nothing matters except infrastructure, adoption, and commerce.  10 million alt coins without these don't dilute Bitcoin one iota.

In summary, you're expecting too much too soon.   Give it time.  Bitcoin isn't "fully evolved" right now.  Not by a long shot.  That should be obvious.

-B-

[Ron~Popeil]

Elmer FUD is here!

Acceptance and main steam adoption is all around you if you take the time to look. Millions of dollars in fiat are melting into bit coin as we speak.

You see this is just a fan boy response, totally blinkered to the reality of it all.

As I say I am not a bitcoin hater, look back at my old posts, I have had Bitcoin since 2010 and I have spent thousands and thousands on mining equipment. I believe in the ideal, but I don't agree with how Bitcoin is progressing.


As for the other guy's arguments about buying bitcoin, holding a month and then buying effectively cheaper products.....bah that is such a bad argument.

One - the price can totally collapse as well as go up
Two - if it's going up, why sell at the end of one month and buy those jeans? Why not wait another month and buy 2 pairs, or wait 6 months and buy a boat? The volatility both ways is not good for Bitcoin in use as a form of currency.

No I am just saying there are a lot of really positive things happening all around us. If you choose to focus only on the negative things that is your choice I suppose. I really don't give a shit how long you have held bit coin or how much you have spent.

[blackhull]

I guess it depends on if you're talking about Bitcoin itself or crypto's in general.

I could see a situation in which a basket of like the top 10 biggest cryptos could make a good addition to an investment portfolio, particularly because of their unique price behavior, which could actually potentially reduce risk in a portfolio.

I could also see, as more billions come online, the need for some kind of cryptocurrency. But a lot of the explanations offered so far are unabashedly optimistically biased - in reality, they aren't wrong, but things just aren't so certain. In my opinion.

[Ron~Popeil]

I guess it depends on if you're talking about Bitcoin itself or crypto's in general.

I could see a situation in which a basket of like the top 10 biggest cryptos could make a good addition to an investment portfolio, particularly because of their unique price behavior, which could actually potentially reduce risk in a portfolio.

I could also see, as more billions come online, the need for some kind of cryptocurrency. But a lot of the explanations offered so far are unabashedly optimistically biased - in reality, they aren't wrong, but things just aren't so certain. In my opinion.

The optimism bias is human nature. I think if someone takes the time to really understand this technology it is so much bigger than just a currency we may or may not all get rich by holding. It really has the potential to alter the world in many fantastic ways. 

[johnatan32]

Exactly, you never know what the future will be assessed and also here you'd think both sides if you believe the meaning of the coin like all of us on the site, and publish it from your friend so you'll see ads on the coin just ditch it'll do good for everyone.

[makebitcoin]

As people get more tech savvy more people will use Bitcoin. In it's current state Bitcoin is simply to complicated for the average customer.
The smartphone apps are actually pretty easy to use. It's still to complicated to get Bitcoins though. You can't simply buy them with your credit card.

[ShakyhandsBTCer]

As people get more tech savvy more people will use Bitcoin. In it's current state Bitcoin is simply to complicated for the average customer.
The smartphone apps are actually pretty easy to use. It's still to complicated to get Bitcoins though. You can't simply buy them with your credit card.

I think the opposite needs to happen for bitcoin to go "mainstream"

People in society are too lazy today to want to learn about new things. They want instant gratification.

When wallets and apps are more user friendly (they have already come a very long way and the level of technical knowledge necessary is very small) the many more people will start to use bitcoin.

[Este Nuno]

As people get more tech savvy more people will use Bitcoin. In it's current state Bitcoin is simply to complicated for the average customer.
The smartphone apps are actually pretty easy to use. It's still to complicated to get Bitcoins though. You can't simply buy them with your credit card.

I think the opposite needs to happen for bitcoin to go "mainstream"

People in society are too lazy today to want to learn about new things. They want instant gratification.

When wallets and apps are more user friendly (they have already come a very long way and the level of technical knowledge necessary is very small) the many more people will start to use bitcoin.

I think Circle is going to help in that regard. Realistically the average person is not going to go download BitcoinQT and download a multi gigabyte blockchain. But using a service like Circle makes it much more likely that average people would be able to try bitcoin out without doing anything too difficult.

[Bit_Happy]

...
- Although there is more acceptance, there doesn't seem to be a growing 'mainstream' acceptance....

'Mainstream' is happening:  (One example here)
Budweiser, Coinbase Partner to Give Free Bitcoin to Concert Attendees

Budweiser is teaming up with Coinbase on a bitcoin payments initiative that will go live this summer during the Budweiser Made In America (BMIA) Concert Series....
http://www.coindesk.com/budweiser-coinbase-partner-free-bitcoin-concert-attendees


Next one:
The expectation of massive growth in the price deters use of Bitcoins. I made the mistake of paying 2 Bitcoin for something a year ago to pay the equivalent of 30 Euro, if I had kept the 2 BTC I would have had closer to 1500 Euro.

The 'expectation of massive growth in the price' will be followed by another actual Huge increase in price, and...
Then BTC will be so valuable that no one can call it a "fringe asset".
Also, many people do spend BTC especially as it becomes more common for regular wages to be paid in BTC and/or when the BTC price is above their average cost.

[ShakyhandsBTCer]

As people get more tech savvy more people will use Bitcoin. In it's current state Bitcoin is simply to complicated for the average customer.
The smartphone apps are actually pretty easy to use. It's still to complicated to get Bitcoins though. You can't simply buy them with your credit card.

I think the opposite needs to happen for bitcoin to go "mainstream"

People in society are too lazy today to want to learn about new things. They want instant gratification.

When wallets and apps are more user friendly (they have already come a very long way and the level of technical knowledge necessary is very small) the many more people will start to use bitcoin.

I think Circle is going to help in that regard. Realistically the average person is not going to go download BitcoinQT and download a multi gigabyte blockchain. But using a service like Circle makes it much more likely that average people would be able to try bitcoin out without doing anything too difficult.

Circle could very well revolutionize "money" and how people interact with bitcoin. Circle will use bitcoin as a method of payment but "balances" and the amount sent is based on dollars (or local currency).