Who cares about the 45% Ghash.io have - will you care when they are at 51%?

[noSlave]

 
Who cares about the 45% Ghash.io have - will you care when they are at 51%?

Nearly nobody is discussing about that time Ghash.io hit that high level against.

Why? Isn't it a problem? ( remember 7th Janurary what happend to the price and what Ghash.io tolds us on 9th ....)


Update:
"Who cares about double spend. The more important risk is jamming up the system indefinitely by not allowing transactions through, or implementing white lists by only allowing certain transactions through from preapproved addresses.?"

[jabo38]

I'm really surprised more people aren't talking about this or doing something about it. 

[Ilsk]

45% it's already very dangerous, it gives you very good chance of double spending, look at this Analysis of Hashrate-Based Double Spending (especially page 10).

http://arxiv.org/pdf/1402.2009v1.pdf

[Este Nuno]

Who cares about the 45% Ghash.io have - will you care when they are at 51%?

Nearly nobody is discussing about that time Ghash.io hit that high level against.

Why? Isn't it a problem? ( remember 7th Janurary what happend to the price and what Ghash.io tolds us on 9th ....)

I do think it's an issue and to be honest I'm not particularly impressed with Ghash's response, or lack there of.

Especially when you compare it to the quick and effective response of BTC Guild when they were in the 40% bracket.

Some people have speculated that Ghash has mining power that totals above 50% already but their mining it off pool in order to avoid attention. I'm not saying that's true, but if they did end up with over 50% of the hashing power that would seem like it would be the most rational thing to do economically speaking(if and only if the public had no knowledge of it happening).

>50% attacks are real and should be taken seriously by the community. Even the threat of one is enough to seriously harm bitcoin in the eyes of the public. I don't even want to imagine what sort spin these modern media companies would put on it.

[findftp]

I only care about 66,6%

[Catmoonglow]

We need a usable p2pool software so that everyone starts mining. It's the only way, we need decentralized mining. We need it easy to install & configure, clean and with intuitive gui.

[findftp]

We need it easy to install & configure, clean and with intuitive gui.

No we don't.
The miners are already ran by the biggest nerds.
There is probably a big disadvantage for p2pool which we don't know yet.

I also think there will be a 66,6% attack which will move the miners to p2pool finally.
It will be the silk road event which brought us to stratospheric heights last time.

[iluvpie60]

Who cares about the 45% Ghash.io have - will you care when they are at 51%?

Nearly nobody is discussing about that time Ghash.io hit that high level against.

Why? Isn't it a problem? ( remember 7th Janurary what happend to the price and what Ghash.io tolds us on 9th ....)

This has already happened before and people did talk about it. Ghash basically just pointed their miners away and did it by themselves. They lowered it/turned off some miners or something but it was resolved in good faith a few times before in other places too.

[jambola2]

I'm really surprised more people aren't talking about this or doing something about it. 

What do you suggest we do?

Typically, there has been a dominant mining group since the mining pool concept was created. Many of us have tried (failed) to point out that the centralization of hash rate is undesirable, yet we continue to see it.

I expect a 51% attack at some point in Bitcoin's future. It won't kill Bitcoin, only set it back while hopefully bringing more attention to working towards better decentralization practices.

It may however weaken Bitcoin enough for another innovative cryptocurrency to jump it. Presumably one which is more resilient to 51% attacks.

[findftp]

I'm really surprised more people aren't talking about this or doing something about it. 

What do you suggest we do?

Typically, there has been a dominant mining group since the mining pool concept was created. Many of us have tried (failed) to point out that the centralization of hash rate is undesirable, yet we continue to see it.

I expect a 51% attack at some point in Bitcoin's future. It won't kill Bitcoin, only set it back while hopefully bringing more attention to working towards better decentralization practices.

It may however weaken Bitcoin enough for another innovative cryptocurrency to jump it. Presumably one which is more resilient to 51% attacks.

Not when there is almost no damage done.
Perhaps the miners will switch back to the latest blockchain state right before the first double spends.
All spends after the fork are then lost or people should charge back the BTC or send the item back they bought or pay again, or something.
Does it makes sense what I say?

[noSlave]

Here some other frighten things about double and possible double spends:

My coins were stolen in the middle of the night and I don't know how
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/27jsy3/my_coins_were_stolen_in_the_middle_of_the_night/


GHash.IO & double spending
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/279sex/ghashio_double_spending/

Selfish Mining: A 25% Attack Against the Bitcoin Network
http://bitcoinmagazine.com/7953/selfish-mining-a-25-attack-against-the-bitcoin-network/

[BCwinning]

I believe the problem lies in many areas.
More hashing power = more blocks solved = more money. Everyone is mining for money
The pools that have decent hashing power where you can still make money but it averages out longer
have shitty fees so people don't want to mine there.
The ones that keep mining there do it for various reasons from loyalty to laziness to explore different pool options.
The pools that have what I consider excellent terms have no hashing power yet and you might as well be solo mining.
P2Ppools are good but might as well solo mining if you don't have much hashing power and have higher than 30 ms latency to the pool.
Ghash took it to the next level by selling could mining and exchanging currencies as well as multipool profit.
So any new pools or existing pools need to step their game up I believe.
Some pools haven't updated their site since they opened as a pool years ago.
When you make creative criticisms people tell you to go start your own pool.
It's a circle jerk imnsho

[Este Nuno]

We need a usable p2pool software so that everyone starts mining. It's the only way, we need decentralized mining. We need it easy to install & configure, clean and with intuitive gui.

You still need ASICs do mine now through. And you can't expect everyone to purchase chips and boards that become outdated in two months.

The mining part of bitcoin has definitely veered off course from it's original intention.

[noSlave]

I believe the problem lies in many areas.
More hashing power = more blocks solved = more money. Everyone is mining for money
The pools that have decent hashing power where you can still make money but it averages out longer
have shitty fees so people don't want to mine there.
The ones that keep mining there do it for various reasons from loyalty to laziness to explore different pool options.
The pools that have what I consider excellent terms have no hashing power yet and you might as well be solo mining.
P2Ppools are good but might as well solo mining if you don't have much hashing power and have higher than 30 ms latency to the pool.
Ghash took it to the next level by selling could mining and exchanging currencies as well as multipool profit.
So any new pools or existing pools need to step their game up I believe.
Some pools haven't updated their site since they opened as a pool years ago.
When you make creative criticisms people tell you to go start your own pool.
It's a circle jerk imnsho

one of the best comments I read!

[noSlave]

We need a usable p2pool software so that everyone starts mining. It's the only way, we need decentralized mining. We need it easy to install & configure, clean and with intuitive gui.

You still need ASICs do mine now through. And you can't expect everyone to purchase chips and boards that become outdated in two months.

The mining part of bitcoin has definitely veered off course from it's original intention.

yes. And think about what will happen in 5 years. Maybe only 4 companys will control it and beginning only to accept transaction from ppl who have a registered adress giving them from their gov.

....as more I think about these stuff....o_0

[LiteCoinGuy]

Here some other frighten things about double and possible double spends:

My coins were stolen in the middle of the night and I don't know how
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/27jsy3/my_coins_were_stolen_in_the_middle_of_the_night/


GHash.IO & double spending
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/279sex/ghashio_double_spending/

Selfish Mining: A 25% Attack Against the Bitcoin Network
http://bitcoinmagazine.com/7953/selfish-mining-a-25-attack-against-the-bitcoin-network/

you cant spent coins from another person with a 51%.

[noSlave]

Here some other frighten things about double and possible double spends:

My coins were stolen in the middle of the night and I don't know how
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/27jsy3/my_coins_were_stolen_in_the_middle_of_the_night/


GHash.IO & double spending
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/279sex/ghashio_double_spending/

Selfish Mining: A 25% Attack Against the Bitcoin Network
http://bitcoinmagazine.com/7953/selfish-mining-a-25-attack-against-the-bitcoin-network/

you cant spent coins from another person with a 51%.

the "funny" part is, that you also can do it with less % .....

[Este Nuno]

We need a usable p2pool software so that everyone starts mining. It's the only way, we need decentralized mining. We need it easy to install & configure, clean and with intuitive gui.

You still need ASICs do mine now through. And you can't expect everyone to purchase chips and boards that become outdated in two months.

The mining part of bitcoin has definitely veered off course from it's original intention.

yes. And think about what will happen in 5 years. Maybe only 4 companys will control it and beginning only to accept transaction from ppl who have a registered adress giving them from their gov.

....as more I think about these stuff....o_0

That's actually a really interesting hypothetical. I've never heard or thought of something like that before.

What would happen if the government did go after mining pools in someway? Forcing them to reject certain transactions. It could start with terrorism, or drugs, and then lead to who knows what.

I guess the easy answer would be to have mining pools operating out of friendly countries, but who knows how many of those, if any, there will be.

I'm not paranoid, nor do I think this is necessarily likely, but it's something that does not seem outside the realm of possibility.

[noSlave]

We need a usable p2pool software so that everyone starts mining. It's the only way, we need decentralized mining. We need it easy to install & configure, clean and with intuitive gui.

You still need ASICs do mine now through. And you can't expect everyone to purchase chips and boards that become outdated in two months.

The mining part of bitcoin has definitely veered off course from it's original intention.

yes. And think about what will happen in 5 years. Maybe only 4 companys will control it and beginning only to accept transaction from ppl who have a registered adress giving them from their gov.

....as more I think about these stuff....o_0

That's actually a really interesting hypothetical. I've never heard or thought of something like that before.

What would happen if the government did go after mining pools in someway? Forcing them to reject certain transactions. It could start with terrorism, or drugs, and then lead to who knows what.

I guess the easy answer would be to have mining pools operating out of friendly countries, but who knows how many of those, if any, there will be.

I'm not paranoid, nor do I think this is necessarily likely, but it's something that does not seem outside the realm of possibility.

As soon we became support from ppl who are normaly against things like what bitcoin stand for, it could be a confirm.

[noSlave]

....looks like it's everthing normal for the most.