Why is BITMAIN selling used products ?

[cozk]

I thought if a company had a physical location in the states they needed to abide by the laws?
Selling something used as new would be illegal isn't it? My S1 was dusty and it wasn't from a day or three burn in as well.
It's unethical but so are the people selling used S1's for the price of a new one (before they were discontinued)

BITMAIN has a US location/assets ?

That would be another story, yes.

Their website only says that it will be shipped within 48hr and it will have a 90 day warranty. There is nothing else. One of my units looked slightly used or was earlier version with wires attached to PCIe port, but it turned out to be the best, most reliable producer out of all others, which were "new" by the looks and had extra oozing paste. Again, I think that you guys basically have a buyers remorse. Once you are in the plus column, this should fade away.

I find this argument retarded but here's my take on it.

It is clearly implicit that they are new. You are on the manufacturer website, they offer a warranty on these units, they do not state anywhere new or used and they do huge volumes.
Its like if the Apple store sells you a used laptop in a sealed box and tells you its not written NEW anywhere.

In short, BITMAIN stated implicitly that these units were new. How ? by not stating ''used'' and by their situation (big asic player. manufacturer etc.).
I believe customers had reasonable expectations of getting a new product...

Also, i believe custom declaration mentions new products.

(i have law degree if that can add to my credibility)

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[iglasses]

I thought if a company had a physical location in the states they needed to abide by the laws?
Selling something used as new would be illegal isn't it? My S1 was dusty and it wasn't from a day or three burn in as well.
It's unethical but so are the people selling used S1's for the price of a new one (before they were discontinued)

Bitmain has no presence in the US that I am aware of.
Even if they did good luck complaining to the Gov't about ANYTHING that includes the word Bitcoin.  We are borderline criminals to them.

The more time passes the more amazing similarities I keep seeing between mining and online poker (back in the day).  It's just incredible for two things so vastly different to have so many things happening in parallel.
 

[Biodom]

(i have law degree if that can add to my credibility)

Do you even mine or just talk? Make a thread about Bitcoin law.
Edit: my apologies for being a bit rude.

[cozk]

(i have law degree if that can add to my credibility)

Do you even mine or just mouth around? Make a thread about Bitcoin law.

You mad or something ?

I said this because it backs the reasoning of my post (that uses law concepts).

Whatever...

And if you want to know everything english is not my mother tongue, my english range of words is pretty poor.

[BCwinning]

The only remorse I have is not having enough cash to buy more and sell them at a premium like everyone else is now

[Biodom]

The only remorse I have is not having enough cash to buy more and sell them at a premium like everyone else is now

antminer S1 is the new iphone- used is being sold almost at $100 premium.

[iglasses]

(i have law degree if that can add to my credibility)

Do you even mine or just mouth around? Make a thread about Bitcoin law.

You mad or something ?

I said this because it backs the reasoning of my post (that uses law concepts).

Whatever...

And if you want to know everything english is not my mother tongue, my english range of words is pretty poor.

Are you from the US?
If you are and you have a law degree I find it very interesting to also make the statement that you are bad at English. 
Also note, I am under the impression that you are from the US because you have not clearly stated that you are "not" from the US.
 

[cozk]

(i have law degree if that can add to my credibility)

Do you even mine or just mouth around? Make a thread about Bitcoin law.

You mad or something ?

I said this because it backs the reasoning of my post (that uses law concepts).

Whatever...

And if you want to know everything english is not my mother tongue, my english range of words is pretty poor.

Are you from the US?
If you are and you have a law degree I find it very interesting to also make the statement that you are bad at English. 
Also note, I am under the impression that you are from the US because you have not clearly stated that you are "not" from the US.
 

French Canadian. Our formation is on Canadian comon law and French civil law. Quebec has a dualist legal system, English public law (individual - state relations) and French civil private law ( relations between individuals).

Lets get back on the topic.

[Bicknellski]

New or Used.

Would you still buy an S2 or something else?

I am guessing most would buy an S2 either way. Just saying.

The 2 I bought were not "used" to the best of my knowledge. I don't really care. I cared more that they don't pack the units properly and the boards pop out and bounce around and some people, not my case, have lost boards and whole miners to that unnecessary damage.

[edgar]

the damage is the least of it.

even though its totally avoidable.

its the awful service, terrible communications, out&out greed, and obvious disdain for anything other than 'young moolah baayybehhh'

my latest rig is finally hashing (mohstly) but it killed the dented PSU in the process and STILL has missing caps as Bitmain didnt want to supply me with a half dozen...

at current prices and with recent examples of how things can degenerate it makes little sense to gamble on a hit or miss rig with miss or totally miss support.

[sergio]

It does matter weather it is new or used, there are many reasons but the most important one is that you do not want to buy from someone that is competing against you since you are the little guy and will always be at the loosing end.

If a company mines with the hardware that they sell they will not be motivated to sell if they can ROI by mining it is that simple.

If they are only a hardware vendor, their goal is to make profit selling hardware independent of how much you ROI, this will happen eventually some big company that only sells hardware will sell hardware at much lower prices because it is in relation to how much the hardware costs not how much it ROI's and all mining companies that mine with the hardware that they sell will stop selling because they will prefer to mine to maximize profit, but it the end they will get burned.

think of the old days, video cards were sold in regards  to the hardware not in regards the ROI, and you could generate lots of profit, if someone tried to sell a video card based on ROI like on ebay, they could only do it while they  were sold out on newegg, buy.com, amazon, etc as soon as this vendors got new stock the guy that was selling based on ROI on ebay could not do it, since the price based on hardware was like 1/3.

Same thing will happen to Asics, and Satoshi's dream will become true as far as mining, but it depends on us, this are a few things we must do:
1. Do not buy preorder, only from stock.
2. only 1 Asic at a time, if you get burned, it will be only one, and then post here to warn others.
3. Do not accept used gear from hardware vendors, it means they compete against you which is unethical. Nothing wrong with used gear from ebay or craiglist from an independent miner, and independent miner is not a hardware vendor.

And I am sure some of you can complete this idea much better, but what I have mentioned is the start of and idea of how to fix this Asic mining mess, this mess did not exist in the days of CPU and GPU mining.

The reason is that CPU and GPU vendors in general did not sell based on ROI, it was based on hardware cost, the same should be and it will be for ASICS, it is a matter of time, but we can help accelerate this process.

If I ever get used gear from a hardware vendor, I a done with them, based on ethics, not based on weather the hardware works or not.

[Bicknellski]

That might be true Edgar.

I paid.

I got my units.

They were a bit banged up.

They work very well.


That is all I can go on.


Yes there are better service orientated fabs out there but what is in stock and at the right price is the end point for most. Any purchase of a miner from any company is going to be risky.

The point of the thread was these units looked to be "used". My point is no one really seems to care if they buy them and get them in hand in a few days. The alternatives are sadly the norm where waiting and waiting is the reality coupled with all the bad service.

----

On to the reality of mining.

The days of hooking up your ASICs at home one at a time are over.

You can't compete with millions of dollars in investiture from the bigger players. The only way to do that is stop buying ASICs from anyone other than a group you form yourself, a co-op. If you are really keen on breaking or holding off the monopoly that is going to be mining then you have coordinate 100s to 1000s of individual home miners into collectives to compete in pretty much any coin.

The only way to really have democratic coin one that doesn't allow a few with extreme wealthy to control mining is to make a coin that is design resistant and uses existing tech like mobile phones.

[kingscrown]

I assume all those companies mine a bit befoire selling

[icet208]

who says that they are new?? Does bitmain said that the units are new? They only offer warranty. That`s it

[Biffa]

To be fair edgar does tend to have had some bad luck with the mining gear he has bought

I've had two S2's one from batch 2 that arrived with a few cards out of alignment and after about a month the PSU stopped powering up the rig unless I removed a few boards.

So I just popped another PSU I had lying around in there and its been working fine, then I began the elaborate support dance with Bitmain, in the end they are getting it picked up at their expense to send back to them and get me out a new one. No biggie.

I also got a batch 4 from the group buy, much better packaged, everything survived intact and it mined as advertised first time.

As to the car allegory earlier in the thread wtf? How many cars do you import from China?

[Bicknellski]

To be fair edgar does tend to have had some bad luck with the mining gear he has bought

I've had two S2's one from batch 2 that arrived with a few cards out of alignment and after about a month the PSU stopped powering up the rig unless I removed a few boards.

So I just popped another PSU I had lying around in there and its been working fine, then I began the elaborate support dance with Bitmain, in the end they are getting it picked up at their expense to send back to them and get me out a new one. No biggie.

I also got a batch 4 from the group buy, much better packaged, everything survived intact and it mined as advertised first time.

As to the car allegory earlier in the thread wtf? How many cars do you import from China?

Mexico mostly and parts from Canada. Or Japanese. Do they even make cars in the US anymore?

[Biffa]

To be fair edgar does tend to have had some bad luck with the mining gear he has bought

I've had two S2's one from batch 2 that arrived with a few cards out of alignment and after about a month the PSU stopped powering up the rig unless I removed a few boards.

So I just popped another PSU I had lying around in there and its been working fine, then I began the elaborate support dance with Bitmain, in the end they are getting it picked up at their expense to send back to them and get me out a new one. No biggie.

I also got a batch 4 from the group buy, much better packaged, everything survived intact and it mined as advertised first time.

As to the car allegory earlier in the thread wtf? How many cars do you import from China?

Mexico mostly and parts from Canada. Or Japanese. Do they even make cars in the US anymore?

I mean as an individual buyer, what do you think your chances are of getting it fixed quickly if you imported your car from China and you found someone had been driving around in it for a few weeks before shipping?

[Bicknellski]

To be fair edgar does tend to have had some bad luck with the mining gear he has bought

I've had two S2's one from batch 2 that arrived with a few cards out of alignment and after about a month the PSU stopped powering up the rig unless I removed a few boards.

So I just popped another PSU I had lying around in there and its been working fine, then I began the elaborate support dance with Bitmain, in the end they are getting it picked up at their expense to send back to them and get me out a new one. No biggie.

I also got a batch 4 from the group buy, much better packaged, everything survived intact and it mined as advertised first time.

As to the car allegory earlier in the thread wtf? How many cars do you import from China?

Mexico mostly and parts from Canada. Or Japanese. Do they even make cars in the US anymore?

I mean as an individual buyer, what do you think your chances are of getting it fixed quickly if you imported your car from China and you found someone had been driving around in it for a few weeks before shipping?

Just bustin your balls... sorry. I get it.

[BCwinning]

who says that they are new?? Does bitmain said that the units are new? They only offer warranty. That`s it

read the thread

[tzortz]

They offer 3 months of warranty, but overclocking voids it.

WTF, I got 3x S1s overclocked and with a mountain of dust.

Funboys , praise Bimaintech!