Wanted: A few good hackers

[Prayer]

Ok, so I have a few ideas for alternative block chains.  They may be original, they may not be.  They may already exist or someone might already be developing them, but I've not been able to find a reference to anything even remotely close.  I'm brand new to the community and don't know any crypto-nerds, so I'm looking for some guidance on how to proceed.

Before I disclose my ideas to anyone, I'd really like to discuss how to protect my ideas.  Not because I want to corner the market or anything, but because if my ideas are worth anything, I'd really like the honor of generating the genesis block and possibly destroying the first 50 coins produced by the new block chain.

So, anyone have any suggestions on how a non-hacker, non-cryptonerd can get his ideas developed?

-Prayer

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[Miner612]

Careful who you talk to around here ... lots of crypto-nerd rats and thieves.  But there are some good people here, too.

LOTS of jealous folks here, so watch out for the small time dudes and people who live with their parents still.

[Prayer]

Yeah, claim jumpers and highway bandits posing as friends and helpful strangers can be problematic.  With 40 years of life and 18 years of internet behind me, I'm cautious enough to take things slow.  I have 2 ideas that could provide critical services to bitcoin, and a 3rd that could help drive bitcoin to critical mass with very little investment.

If I can find the right group of hackers (and they know how to identify themselves discretely), I'll spill my guts.

[RandyFolds]

Read the Alt Coin threads...the ponzi market is saturated. Why not contribute to bitcoin development instead of creating another bastardized scamcoin?

If you don't disclose your ideas, you will have a hard time gaining support around here. I am not trying to troll the newbie forum, but shit...another useless altcoin to compliment the other 20 abominations?

[TheHeroMember]

Ok, so I have a few ideas for alternative block chains.  They may be original, they may not be.  They may already exist or someone might already be developing them, but I've not been able to find a reference to anything even remotely close.  I'm brand new to the community and don't know any crypto-nerds, so I'm looking for some guidance on how to proceed.

Before I disclose my ideas to anyone, I'd really like to discuss how to protect my ideas.  Not because I want to corner the market or anything, but because if my ideas are worth anything, I'd really like the honor of generating the genesis block and possibly destroying the first 50 coins produced by the new block chain.

So, anyone have any suggestions on how a non-hacker, non-cryptonerd can get his ideas developed?

-Prayer

Nice share of your idea.

[jwzguy]

Careful who you talk to around here ... lots of crypto-nerd rats and thieves.  But there are some good people here, too.

LOTS of jealous folks here, so watch out for the small time dudes and people who live with their parents still.

Thieves...aren't you the guy who posted bragging about how you defrauded Amazon out of a Kindle?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=63151.0

I see the shady-as-hell OP is now deleting all his posts...what a surprise.

[Prayer]

Uhm... by OP, I assume Original Poster (of the thread), which is me.  Which posts have I deleted?

Now, the part of bitcoin that appeals to me, is the fact that it's controlled by nobody and everybody at the same time.  I'm pretty confident that, short of a '51%' attack, it's impossible for an single group or individual to impose their own control.

What I don't like, are a lot of the services associated with bitcoin.  I've yet to find any that I would personally find useful enough to actually invest in it.  If NameCoin could handle .com/net/org/us/eu/whatever TLDs, it could really take off.  As it is, you can only buy next-to-useless .bit domains.  Maybe NameCoin can eventually be recognized as a registrar for official TLDs.

Satoshi described a BitDNS service.  Why hasn't someone done this for real?  I know NameCoin can do some DNS stuff, but what are my options for the really cool .com domain I just registered at BlowDaddy.com?  I'm stuck in bind (and other software that provides central control for my DNS records).  I want it decentralized and secure dammnit!


Here's one of my ideas...

How about revamping a service that's already completely decentralized, distributed, and secure, but blows donut holes?  TOR could be so much more if it were a true commercial product where consumers pay for service and providers charge for service.  The problem is that a connection might go through several hubs, and you need to compensate each one of those hubs for the services they are rendering.  Might this problem be solved through the use of it's own block chain, complete with miners to process the transactions as Bob pays Charlie, Charlie pays Dave, and Dave pays Fred for his gateway services?

In order to make an automatic payment system like this work, we need a mechanism to ensure that consumers don't get ripped off and producers don't make false advertisements.

In the case of a VPN service like TOR, you have to find a way to figure out supply and demand so that reward for doing  work can be automatically calculated.   This type of method would ensure that the 10, 100, and 1000Mbit/s gateways would all receive fair, optimal compensation when they're operating at peak efficiency.  As demand increases, so does the price.  The gateway capable of carrying GigE traffic could demand more than the 10Mbit/s gateway.  On the other side of the equation, the consumer needing GigE connectivity would be willing to pay more than the consumer needing a 10Mbit/s connection.

I believe that it is possible to find an automatic way for the right consumer to find the right provider, assign a supply/demand value to the service, then based on commodity trading, determine the fair price for the service.  So yes, I'd like to find a few good hackers that might want to take off with an idea like this (or one of a few others floating around in my head).  I don't want compensation for my ideas, I'd just really like to see them become a reality. 

Satoshi created a currency that was fair and balanced for everyone.  A currency that's not easy to manipulate.  Why can't we have services that use that currency and the ideals behind that currency?


-Prayer

[RandyFolds]

I don't really think Bitcoin is a fair and balanced currency. It is very much skewed to the side of the wealthy. It requires a huge investment to mine, and relative to most of the world's population, is pretty unaffordable.

You are never going to get people to pay for a tor-like service (that is already available for free) and sacrifice their anonymity, nor are you going to be able to pay nodes without a central authority. You complain of the lack of services for bitcoin? Take that times a million for any 'torcoin' blockchain that you pay them with. Who's gonna mine it, and who's gonna accept it?

I hate to troll, but I hate all these useless alt-currencies that are released to fix some grand problem that never existed more.

[jwzguy]

Uhm... by OP, I assume Original Poster (of the thread), which is me.  Which posts have I deleted?

Now, the part of bitcoin that appeals to me, is the fact that it's controlled by nobody and everybody at the same time.  I'm pretty confident that, short of a '51%' attack, it's impossible for an single group or individual to impose their own control.

What I don't like, are a lot of the services associated with bitcoin.  I've yet to find any that I would personally find useful enough to actually invest in it.  If NameCoin could handle .com/net/org/us/eu/whatever TLDs, it could really take off.  As it is, you can only buy next-to-useless .bit domains.  Maybe NameCoin can eventually be recognized as a registrar for official TLDs.

Satoshi described a BitDNS service.  Why hasn't someone done this for real?  I know NameCoin can do some DNS stuff, but what are my options for the really cool .com domain I just registered at BlowDaddy.com?  I'm stuck in bind (and other software that provides central control for my DNS records).  I want it decentralized and secure dammnit!


Here's one of my ideas...

How about revamping a service that's already completely decentralized, distributed, and secure, but blows donut holes?  TOR could be so much more if it were a true commercial product where consumers pay for service and providers charge for service.  The problem is that a connection might go through several hubs, and you need to compensate each one of those hubs for the services they are rendering.  Might this problem be solved through the use of it's own block chain, complete with miners to process the transactions as Bob pays Charlie, Charlie pays Dave, and Dave pays Fred for his gateway services?

In order to make an automatic payment system like this work, we need a mechanism to ensure that consumers don't get ripped off and producers don't make false advertisements.

In the case of a VPN service like TOR, you have to find a way to figure out supply and demand so that reward for doing  work can be automatically calculated.   This type of method would ensure that the 10, 100, and 1000Mbit/s gateways would all receive fair, optimal compensation when they're operating at peak efficiency.  As demand increases, so does the price.  The gateway capable of carrying GigE traffic could demand more than the 10Mbit/s gateway.  On the other side of the equation, the consumer needing GigE connectivity would be willing to pay more than the consumer needing a 10Mbit/s connection.

I believe that it is possible to find an automatic way for the right consumer to find the right provider, assign a supply/demand value to the service, then based on commodity trading, determine the fair price for the service.  So yes, I'd like to find a few good hackers that might want to take off with an idea like this (or one of a few others floating around in my head).  I don't want compensation for my ideas, I'd just really like to see them become a reality. 

Satoshi created a currency that was fair and balanced for everyone.  A currency that's not easy to manipulate.  Why can't we have services that use that currency and the ideals behind that currency?


-Prayer

Sorry for the misunderstanding, I did indeed mean original poster, but of the thread I linked to, not this one.

[TheHeroMember]

Careful who you talk to around here ... lots of crypto-nerd rats and thieves.  But there are some good people here, too.

LOTS of jealous folks here, so watch out for the small time dudes and people who live with their parents still.

Thieves...aren't you the guy who posted bragging about how you defrauded Amazon out of a Kindle?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=63151.0

I see the shady-as-hell OP is now deleting all his posts...what a surprise.

cool 

[bitcoinsarefun]

Here's one of my ideas...

How about revamping a service that's already completely decentralized, distributed, and secure, but blows donut holes?  TOR could be so much more if it were a true commercial product where consumers pay for service and providers charge for service.  The problem is that a connection might go through several hubs, and you need to compensate each one of those hubs for the services they are rendering.  Might this problem be solved through the use of it's own block chain, complete with miners to process the transactions as Bob pays Charlie, Charlie pays Dave, and Dave pays Fred for his gateway services?

In order to make an automatic payment system like this work, we need a mechanism to ensure that consumers don't get ripped off and producers don't make false advertisements.

In the case of a VPN service like TOR, you have to find a way to figure out supply and demand so that reward for doing  work can be automatically calculated.   This type of method would ensure that the 10, 100, and 1000Mbit/s gateways would all receive fair, optimal compensation when they're operating at peak efficiency.  As demand increases, so does the price.  The gateway capable of carrying GigE traffic could demand more than the 10Mbit/s gateway.  On the other side of the equation, the consumer needing GigE connectivity would be willing to pay more than the consumer needing a 10Mbit/s connection.

I believe that it is possible to find an automatic way for the right consumer to find the right provider, assign a supply/demand value to the service, then based on commodity trading, determine the fair price for the service.  So yes, I'd like to find a few good hackers that might want to take off with an idea like this (or one of a few others floating around in my head).  I don't want compensation for my ideas, I'd just really like to see them become a reality.  

Satoshi created a currency that was fair and balanced for everyone.  A currency that's not easy to manipulate.  Why can't we have services that use that currency and the ideals behind that currency?


-Prayer

So let's break down this idea into a one sentence description:

new tor-like network where you pay a dynamic fee for access that is used to proportionally compensate hubs that constitute the network that is backed by its own bitcoin-like currency

I wouldn't worry about anyone stealing this particular idea and if you truly mean this -> " I don't want compensation for my ideas, I'd just really like to see them become a reality."  

just post them for godsake.

I read a ton of writing forums and I see different variants of this "I wanna share my ideas, I'm afraid they'll steal my idea" topic when the truth is, the ideas are never that good or unique.

edit: I hope I don't sound mean, its not my intent ...

[Matthew N. Wright]

I wouldn't worry about anyone stealing this particular idea and if you truly mean this -> " I don't want compensation for my ideas, I'd just really like to see them become a reality."  

just post them for godsake.

I read a ton of writing forums and I see different variants of this "I wanna share my ideas, I'm afraid they'll steal my idea" topic when the truth is, the ideas are never that good or unique.

edit: I hope I don't sound mean, its not my intent ...

Frankly speaking, you're right on for thinking that way. Ideas are a dime a dozen, and most people don't have what it takes to make ideas actually work (nothing against them, sometimes they're just not in the right position/situation/circumstances) and yet human greed causes them to think the idea is their "baby" so that even if they give it away one day to someone who can make it work, they feel entitled to suing said person later on down the road.

In that sense, Ideas are worth less than a dime a dozen because they can cost you more than they are worth.

[Prayer]

So let's break down this idea into a one sentence description:

new tor-like network where you pay a dynamic fee for access that is used to proportionally compensate hubs that constitute the network that is backed by its own bitcoin-like currency

I wouldn't worry about anyone stealing this particular idea and if you truly mean this -> " I don't want compensation for my ideas, I'd just really like to see them become a reality." 

just post them for godsake.

I read a ton of writing forums and I see different variants of this "I wanna share my ideas, I'm afraid they'll steal my idea" topic when the truth is, the ideas are never that good or unique.

edit: I hope I don't sound mean, its not my intent ...

No, you don't sound mean at all.  And the TOR thing was an example of how to implement my idea.  The idea is actually figuring out a dynamic, distributed, trusted, supply chain to make it (nearly) impossible for any one individual to abuse a given service.

The problem with sharing ideas, is that most people offer destructive rather than constructive criticism and often let their mouths start moving before giving their brains time to actually process and understand any given concept.  This thread is already an example of this...

My idea is not about TOR... it's about creating a secure supply chain that people can trust straight up and down.  The supply chain would be graded on as many quantifiable metrics as possible.  In the case of TOR, it would be capacity, reliability, and performance.  Those persons who operate a good, fast, and reliable gateway would be rewarded by those who demand this service.  Suppliers would have a strong incentive to make sure they're operating at peak efficiency.  If demand outpaces supply, prices go up.  As prices go up, there's additional incentive for more suppliers to get into the game, but nobody would be able to saturate the market because doing so would cause prices to crash and would hurt profitability.

Now, instead of moving bits and bytes, let's move wheat... this is not a competing currency, yet it's a $180 billion dollar industry.  The farmer buys seed, adds work, and sells the crop.  The miller buys the crop, adds some work, and sells flour.  The baker buys the flour, adds some work, and sells bread.  The cook buys the bread, adds some work, and sells a sandwich.  Ultimately, the consumer buys a sandwich and eats it.  The money that went into that sandwich gets redistributed up the supply chain, all the way back to the farmer, who could care less if it was a BLT or a Big Mac, while the person eating the sandwich could care less if the wheat came from America, Canada, or China.

If the consumer can't buy a good quality sandwich, he's doing to take his money elsewhere.  If the cook can't buy good quality bread, he's going to find a new baker, who will find a new miller, who will find a new farmer...  Everyone in the chain has an incentive to produce a quality product at free market pricing.  If the farmer produces more wheat than demand calls for, his work is going to waste.

Anyways, I really do want to find other people, preferably people who can actually help me develop this idea into a usable system.  To make this happen, we need a suitable service that it can be applied to, and I think TOR would be a good candidate.  Other applications might include VOIP, DNS, file storage, database transactions, CPU cycles, etc...

There are also financial services that can be secured using block chains.  Imagine a block chain that processed loan transactions.  The initial transaction would have things like a hash of the original loan documents, which might include an application and positive identification of the borrower, the loan amount, interest rate, and terms.  The miner's job would be to secure that transaction, and at that point, the buyer and seller have confirmation that would stand up in any court of law.  The miner would also be responsible for calculating interest, receiving payments on the loan and forwarding the funds to the lender.

What if the lender in the above scenario is actually a corporation, and the payments need to be securely distributed to multiple share holders?  Why not have a corporate block chain that can deal with this as well.  A transaction would have a specific bitcoin address for receiving payments.  Those payments would then be properly distributed to the shareholders listed in that transaction without human intervention or a privately secured processing system that could be manipulated to divert funds away from their rightful owners.

Let's get legitimate for a while, and acknowledge the fact that taxes are a necessary evil.  A tax collection chain could really simplify things.  A retailer sells a widget for 1BTC that requires a 5% sales tax.  The buyer would send 1.05BTC to an address on the tax chain that splits the payment between the retailer and the taxing authority.  The whole transaction is completed instantly, and the retailer no longer has the overhead expense of filing his taxes.

There's a LOT of thought that needs to go into each of these ideas, but systems like these will be necessary before Bitcoin can ever become a universally accepted form of currency.  As long as it remains underground, it's potential will be limited.

-Prayer