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Author Topic: Mining Space for Rent (Also if a Good Idea / Bad Idea)  (Read 2228 times)
The-Real-Link
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February 21, 2012, 10:31:16 AM
 #1

  Hi everyone,

  I have been able to acquire a space for my miners that is climate controlled and relatively free of dust.  I recently had an upgrade made for an additional 40 amps of power that I'm not fully utilizing (yet).

  This is kind of both an offering as well as a curiosity regarding being a good or bad idea but would any miners be interested in renting such a space for a reasonable fee?

  I'd have to think over mainly how much that would be per month and how much hashing / heat someone brings to the table as to figure out what I could work with.  Power price is included in utilities so that is not a problem.  I also have sufficient bandwidth available for miners so Internet (wireless) is included as well.

  The biggest concerns are A. theft and B. access.  While I am not worried about kindly helping a miner out, I am feeling I would have to strongly limit access to said space for obvious reasons.  I could call / be in touch with the renting miner should there be any issue with his/her rig(s) though and be onsite if he/she needs something fixed or adjusted.

  Otherwise I think it would be a fair gesture to offer someone else starting up their mining and helping them with the advantages of operating in a clean(er) environment than home. 

  While I am in the southeast Michigan (Detroit) area, I presume this would be a valid question for anyone nationwide who has space and power available.

  For you guys with larger operations, do you ever rent out space?  I suppose it may be akin to a mining contract but different.

  Thoughts and insight are welcomed.  For local inquiries, please PM me directly, thanks.

Oh Loaded, who art up in Mt. Gox, hallowed be thy name!  Thy dollars rain, thy will be done, on BTCUSD.  Give us this day our daily 10% 30%, and forgive the bears, as we have bought their bitcoins.  And lead us into quadruple digits
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Stephen Gornick
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February 21, 2012, 05:35:45 PM
 #2

Power price is included in utilities so that is not a problem.

The maximum rent you would be able to charge would be relative to the local electric rates.  Do you know what those rates are?

I also have sufficient bandwidth available for miners so Internet (wireless) is included as well.

Mining over a wi-fi connection?

For you guys with larger operations, do you ever rent out space?  I suppose it may be akin to a mining contract but different.

Is this a residential or commercial property?  Even though electric is included in the rent (or in the utilities), the landlord is assuming typical use.   Does the space have its own meter?  If it does, it is likely only a matter of months before the landlord knows which door to knock on.

As far as security -- there has been at least one instance of the person hosting the rig disappearing with the equipment.  There are other concerns as well.  For instance, are your rigs safe from getting messed with when your renter is around/

Because so much of the cost to mining is for the electricity, being able to add mining capacity at no additional cost for the power consumed is a factor that would make it fairly profitable to you.  Is it the access to (or cost of) capital the reason you aren't considering just adding capacity yourself?

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February 21, 2012, 08:38:17 PM
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Personally I love the idea in theory but in practice I think it would implode.

You would need at least a T1?
Separate power for each user so you can bill them accordingly. with some sort of digital meter on each user.
A web interface connecting all this so they can access their systems and pay power bill, request reboots, etc
A secure cage to house all these machines.
When the fire dept shows up for your annual inspection who knows what would happen.
You need a way to accept deliveries of people's miners and the ability to ship them out.
You need to be able to diagnose problems with miners, shipping damage, repair, etc.
Air conditioning.

I have a mostly empty 12000 sqft warehouse with a T1, 6X10ton AC units and 1200 amp service and I would still be overwhelmed trying to set something like this up.  Is it even legal?  What happens if someone's miner catches fire?  What happens if someone sends you a kiddie porn server? What if they don't pay their bills? 

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Gerald Davis


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February 21, 2012, 08:40:37 PM
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Personally I love the idea in theory but in practice I think it would implode.

You would need at least a T1?
Separate power for each user so you can bill them accordingly. with some sort of digital meter on each user.
A web interface connecting all this so they can access their systems and pay power bill, request reboots, etc
A secure cage to house all these machines.
When the fire dept shows up for your annual inspection who knows what would happen.
You need a way to accept deliveries of people's miners and the ability to ship them out.
You need to be able to diagnose problems with miners, shipping damage, repair, etc.
Air conditioning.

I have a mostly empty 12000 sqft warehouse with a T1, 6X10ton AC units and 1200 amp service and I would still be overwhelmed trying to set something like this up.  Is it even legal?  What happens if someone's miner catches fire?  What happens if someone sends you a kiddie porn server? What if they don't pay their bills? 


T1 what is this 1982?

I am sure cable modem or DSL works fine for mining.  (goes to check) ... yup it does.


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February 21, 2012, 08:47:51 PM
 #5

I guess all you would need is a static IP.

You won't be able to get a cable modem in a warehouse.  I have tried.

You could use dsl though.

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P4man
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February 21, 2012, 08:56:14 PM
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Wifi ought to be plenty good, I suspect even 3G tethering probably works.
What you will need is remote reboot, so customers can reboot the machines without anyone going there.

Biggest concern would be theft and fire though. So, access control, fire suppression..  Add to that air conditioning, backup power, and hey, you are building a datacenter like everyone else. I hear thats not so cheap Wink.

On a small scale I guess it could work, for a few miners that trust you and that you can trust with not so much equipment that its a true drama when its lost. Anything beyond that, it becomes too risky or much more expensive than it could be worth IMO.

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February 21, 2012, 09:14:55 PM
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I forgot about backup power. 

barf.

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Gerald Davis


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February 21, 2012, 09:39:40 PM
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I guess all you would need is a static IP.

You won't be able to get a cable modem in a warehouse.  I have tried.

You could use dsl though.

Of course you can ... if the cable company has run a line there.  They aren't going to run a line specially for you.  Lots of industrial parks are wired for cable though. 
The-Real-Link
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February 21, 2012, 09:52:37 PM
 #9

Power price is included in utilities so that is not a problem.

The maximum rent you would be able to charge would be relative to the local electric rates.  Do you know what those rates are?

Yes, rates are $0.10 per KWH.

I also have sufficient bandwidth available for miners so Internet (wireless) is included as well.

Mining over a wi-fi connection?

Yes.  So far I've worked out the bandwidth to be ~4KB/sec for all of my miners running at the moment.  The current connection should in theory be able to give any further miners more than enough bandwidth for mining alone, even if it's only, say 256kb (32KB/sec) up and down.  It's not a ton of bandwidth use all at once; it's just a few KB every second all day.

For you guys with larger operations, do you ever rent out space?  I suppose it may be akin to a mining contract but different.

Is this a residential or commercial property?  Even though electric is included in the rent (or in the utilities), the landlord is assuming typical use.   Does the space have its own meter?  If it does, it is likely only a matter of months before the landlord knows which door to knock on.

As far as security -- there has been at least one instance of the person hosting the rig disappearing with the equipment.  There are other concerns as well.  For instance, are your rigs safe from getting messed with when your renter is around/

Because so much of the cost to mining is for the electricity, being able to add mining capacity at no additional cost for the power consumed is a factor that would make it fairly profitable to you.  Is it the access to (or cost of) capital the reason you aren't considering just adding capacity yourself?

  The space is linked to the panels for the building breakers - while I'm not 100% sure, I'm pretty certain that the building as a whole has a general meter (3 story building with tons of huge AC units on top) as opposed to my space individually (I've looked and not found any meter suggesting such).  The landlord already had me sign some longer term contracts due to my requests of installing more power though so yes, they do know about it and haven't appeared to be concerned about it one bit thus far.  

  While not entirely isolated, the renter has a key, sure, but I see no reason as to why they'd go in the space.  Everything else is locked up on my end.

  With regards to capital, a little of both.  Not saying things aren't profitable - they are, but just like everyone, it will take time to pay it all off or to invest in more systems.  My thought was to charge the other person a pretty nominal amount anyway.  

  The space is sprinklered and insured so while there may always be a risk of fire for whatever reason, that is covered.

  I have some UPSes but there is no redundancy in power yet I'm afraid.

  Regarding the power use, I have a KAW.  Hook it up to the wall and their rig.  Check it in a week or month and it should show the KW/H used, right?

  For the rental legals I'd have to specifically look at that though I don't know yet whether due to it being equipment as opposed to being a landlord if there are any gotchas.  I'd probably draw up a contract specifically stating EVERYTHING as to what the terms are for the interested party for starters.

  Thanks for the suggestions.  Again really just tossing the idea around but there are many good points here so far.  Thanks.

  Oh and for the latest post there, I *could* run a landline (cable) to the router at the front desk but I'd need a good 200+ feet of cable to do so and figure how to run it.  Not impossible but haven't bothered with it yet.  Would be a case then of getting a simple hub to plug everything into then on my end.

Oh Loaded, who art up in Mt. Gox, hallowed be thy name!  Thy dollars rain, thy will be done, on BTCUSD.  Give us this day our daily 10% 30%, and forgive the bears, as we have bought their bitcoins.  And lead us into quadruple digits
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February 21, 2012, 10:50:23 PM
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  Oh and for the latest post there, I *could* run a landline (cable) to the router at the front desk but I'd need a good 200+ feet of cable to do so and figure how to run it.  Not impossible but haven't bothered with it yet.  Would be a case then of getting a simple hub to plug everything into then on my end.

If you planned on bridging that 200+ feet with wifi... good luck, particularly if there is like a dozen crappy USB sticks in those mining rigs. There are wireless solutions that work at such distances, but dont expect a typical home router to work reliably.

The-Real-Link
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February 22, 2012, 12:04:20 AM
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  Oh and for the latest post there, I *could* run a landline (cable) to the router at the front desk but I'd need a good 200+ feet of cable to do so and figure how to run it.  Not impossible but haven't bothered with it yet.  Would be a case then of getting a simple hub to plug everything into then on my end.

If you planned on bridging that 200+ feet with wifi... good luck, particularly if there is like a dozen crappy USB sticks in those mining rigs. There are wireless solutions that work at such distances, but dont expect a typical home router to work reliably.

Oh no, I can connect through it but the signal is unstable and is utter crap (to be expected).  I picked up a hotspot / booster though and it's working great.

Oh Loaded, who art up in Mt. Gox, hallowed be thy name!  Thy dollars rain, thy will be done, on BTCUSD.  Give us this day our daily 10% 30%, and forgive the bears, as we have bought their bitcoins.  And lead us into quadruple digits
deepceleron
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February 22, 2012, 01:06:35 AM
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T1 what is this 1982?

I am sure cable modem or DSL works fine for mining.  (goes to check) ... yup it does.


T1 is the DSL for non-noobs. Costs you $500+/mo but has 99.99% uptime, guaranteed bandwidth up and down, and can connect to anything you want, not just one consumer dynamic IP on a crap ISP who's TOS do not allow servers.

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February 22, 2012, 04:52:13 AM
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Ah yes I remember the glorious summer of '96.  I helped my uncle start an ISP.  We had a T1 and 16 dial up modems.  3 Months later we had 128 modems and we had to start kicking people that were online more than 12 hours straight.

I used to play Quake I with a 20 ping.  I would run circles around everyone chopping them with the grapple.

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Gerald Davis


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February 22, 2012, 02:34:39 PM
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T1 is the DSL for non-noobs. Costs you $500+/mo but has 99.99% uptime, guaranteed bandwidth up and down, and can connect to anything you want, not just one consumer dynamic IP on a crap ISP who's TOS do not allow servers.

Or not.  I know what a T1 is but a T1 isn't necessary for most businesses these days.  Actually it is almost never necessary as those enterprises which need the dedicated connectivity and high uptime also generally need higher bandwidth and thus usually T3 makes more sense.

You do know cable companies sell business grade cable modem service right?  With SLA, static IPs, open ports, inbound servers as part of terms & conditions, etc.  Using a T1 for Bitcoin mining is just a good way to waste money. That $400 incremental cost (over $100 business grade cable service) doesn't do anything for Bitcoin. Sure you may get an extra one or two 9s (99.999% vs 99.9%) in uptime but you would need a 20TH/s farm for that to be worth >$400 in revenue.  When you add install costs, hardware cost, and contracts (usually 1 or more years) it makes even less sense.

Hell if you wanted to waste money getting both business grade DSL & cable service from different companies and using a load balancing router would provide poor man's redundant connectivity and still cost less than $500 per month.

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February 22, 2012, 08:38:46 PM
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I've found DSL to be much better an option for businesses than cable. You can pick your own real full service ISP, and they don't decide to randomly upgrade for two hours a week every other week with no downtime announcement.
You could make the argument that is more profitable to use the open Wi-Fi next door, but I wouldn't want to offer that to others.

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February 23, 2012, 01:43:06 AM
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Yes, rates are $0.10 per KWH.
That's not exactly cheap.

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

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