[ANN][X11][PoS only] NinjaCoin - Ninja Launch - Hard fork 1.2.2

[coiner5]

bittrex should change the walet to the new fork and allow users that had valid coins before all this shit happen withdraw safely to the new wallets. Why is this so hard to do?

Because the forked wallet removes millions of coins that were already sold. Some people bought for several btc and their coins would be lost from bittrex.

the coins they bought are invalid anyway now, what are they gonna do with them? At least give a chance to withdraw valid coins dammit

Nobody knew that those are invalid. We knew it only when the price hit 1-2 sat. I think they should remove the coin as it is. The coin is dead:(. Never keep your coins in exchange wallets.

The coins were not invalid.  The source code and those on the network running it decide how many coins there are, who owns them, etc.  Ninjacoin operated exactly as it was intended to do.  How it was intended to operate may have been different from what you and everyone else (except the dev) expected, but that is a interpersonal issue not a technical one.

If you had your wallet open and were staking, your client was complicit in the inflation of the moneysupply.  Your client agreed on the new higher number, your client validated the new blocks, etc.

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[kryptologist]

I am not just blaming Bittrex. Obviously the developer scammed a bunch of people. My problem with Bittrex is this:

At the time of adding a new coin on the exchange, you can also add a value in the database for the max total supply of coins. You can then use this to detect if there are more coins on the exchange than there should be total supply. If this is detected the market is immediately suspended. It would be a very simple check and could be implemented with little effort. In fact you could check this value with the network and suspend the market even before all those coins got put on the exchange. So I believe Bittrex could have caught this if they had better checks. I am not blaming Bittrex, I am blaming the developer but saying that Bittrex should be able to catch these things.

Can someone from Bittrex please explain why they can't do this or if it will be implemented in the future?

For now I have removed all my funds on Bittrex.

Thanks

[kotwica666]

I compiled the new source code on my Mac.  Deleted all files except wallet.dat and reopened, but it seems to be stuck on block 14000.

Yes, this is what must be done. Just KEEP YOUR WALLET.DAT and remove everything else.
Start the new wallet and we are on block 14000, or maybe 1 or 2 more.

Bittrex and pools should update, we are on a new fork. All what has been done after block 13999 is cancelled, don't panic.

This is an unfortunate case where the dev screwed up and/or screwed us all.

We will NOT be taking a fork of this coin.  The damage is already done here.  Our systems worked as designed and our balances match including checking the moneysupply.  I would like to remind everyone that Bittrex is an exchange.  Our responsibility is to ensure that when you trade xxx A for yyy B, that it happens safely.  We do not police what is being traded.

Again, we will not be taking a new wallet or fork of this coin.  The damage done is irreparable and would have been after the first trade.  The market will remain open and we will let this die its natural death like so many coins before it.

Thanks
richie@bittrex

So, in this words, You want to say that this situation can happen with any coin on Bittrex and You don't care about that?

Yeah, this can happen with any coin on Bittrex or not on Bittrex-- part of the risk of cryptocurrencies, such as they are. If you don't like exposing yourself to risks like these, you don't have to mine, invest, or trade.

I'm sure Bittrex cares that this happened, but it's not their responsibility. Their responsibility is to let you execute trades in a reliable way, not to take on any of the risks involved when you do that.

In the particular case of NJA, nobody at Bittrex could have known any sooner than anyone else that the oversupply was a mistake, a planned surprise by the dev, a coordinated scam, or whatever. It is not Bittrex's job to police the code of each new shitcoin beyond initial due diligence to see whether it's worth providing a marketplace for trading, and maintaining the flow of that trading.

I know what is responsibility, but i see that Bittrex have own interpretation of responsibility.

Why Bittrex didn't stop trading when on market comes such HUGE deposits? This is control of deposits? In my interpretation of responsibility this is mistake! HUGE mistake of Bittrex.

Bittrex has nothing to do with this. They were doing what they are meant to be exchanging that's all. Dev fucked up the POS and greedy users fucked up the price. Blame them bittrex should not be blamed in this situation. There is no exchange from the ones i know that would be prepared for such a fuckup

Bittrex has nothing to do with this? So where I'v been trading? "They were doing.." - doing not enough! ONE MORE TIME:

Why Bittrex didn't stop trading when on market comes such HUGE deposits?

[bittick]

bittrex should change the walet to the new fork and allow users that had valid coins before all this shit happen withdraw safely to the new wallets. Why is this so hard to do?

Because the forked wallet removes millions of coins that were already sold. Some people bought for several btc and their coins would be lost from bittrex.

the coins they bought are invalid anyway now, what are they gonna do with them? At least give a chance to withdraw valid coins dammit

Nobody knew that those are invalid. We knew it only when the price hit 1-2 sat. I think they should remove the coin as it is. The coin is dead:(. Never keep your coins in exchange wallets.

The coins were not invalid.  The source code and those on the network running it decide how many coins there are, who owns them, etc.  Ninjacoin operated exactly as it was intended to do.  How it was intended to operate may have been different from what you and everyone else (except the dev) expected, but that is a interpersonal issue not a technical one.

If you had your wallet open and were staking, your client was complicit in the inflation of the moneysupply.  Your client agreed on the new higher number, your client validated the new blocks, etc.

which was not supposed to happen in such amounts, hence, coins are invalid.

[badam]

I am not just blaming Bittrex. Obviously the developer scammed a bunch of people. My problem with Bittrex is this:

At the time of adding a new coin on the exchange, you can also add a value in the database for the max total supply of coins. You can then use this to detect if there are more coins on the exchange than there should be total supply. If this is detected the market is immediately suspended. It would be a very simple check and could be implemented with little effort.

Can someone from Bittrex please explain why they can't do this or if it will be implemented in the future?

For now I have removed all my funds on Bittrex.

Thanks

There is no max value for ninjacoin. Max value is only for pow. After pow it is generated pos blocks. And again this issue never happened before nobody could prepare for such.

[fonzerrellie]

I compiled the new source code on my Mac.  Deleted all files except wallet.dat and reopened, but it seems to be stuck on block 14000.

Yes, this is what must be done. Just KEEP YOUR WALLET.DAT and remove everything else.
Start the new wallet and we are on block 14000, or maybe 1 or 2 more.

Bittrex and pools should update, we are on a new fork. All what has been done after block 13999 is cancelled, don't panic.

This is an unfortunate case where the dev screwed up and/or screwed us all.

We will NOT be taking a fork of this coin.  The damage is already done here.  Our systems worked as designed and our balances match including checking the moneysupply.  I would like to remind everyone that Bittrex is an exchange.  Our responsibility is to ensure that when you trade xxx A for yyy B, that it happens safely.  We do not police what is being traded.

Again, we will not be taking a new wallet or fork of this coin.  The damage done is irreparable and would have been after the first trade.  The market will remain open and we will let this die its natural death like so many coins before it.

Thanks
richie@bittrex

So, in this words, You want to say that this situation can happen with any coin on Bittrex and You don't care about that?

Yeah, this can happen with any coin on Bittrex or not on Bittrex-- part of the risk of cryptocurrencies, such as they are. If you don't like exposing yourself to risks like these, you don't have to mine, invest, or trade.

I'm sure Bittrex cares that this happened, but it's not their responsibility. Their responsibility is to let you execute trades in a reliable way, not to take on any of the risks involved when you do that.

In the particular case of NJA, nobody at Bittrex could have known any sooner than anyone else that the oversupply was a mistake, a planned surprise by the dev, a coordinated scam, or whatever. It is not Bittrex's job to police the code of each new shitcoin beyond initial due diligence to see whether it's worth providing a marketplace for trading, and maintaining the flow of that trading.

I know what is responsibility, but i see that Bittrex have own interpretation of responsibility.

Why Bittrex didn't stop trading when on market comes such HUGE deposits? This is control of deposits? In my interpretation of responsibility this is mistake! HUGE mistake of Bittrex.

Bittrex has nothing to do with this. They were doing what they are meant to be exchanging that's all. Dev fucked up the POS and greedy users fucked up the price. Blame them bittrex should not be blamed in this situation. There is no exchange from the ones i know that would be prepared for such a fuckup

Exactly If people weren't so greedy that they actually went to bittrex with their obviously bad/mistake coins to sell them and screw us all.

as much as I'm pissed about the f#ck up in the code/math of pos by the dev... the a$$holes who knowingly sold their bad coins on bittrex are the real con artists here.

anywho I'll keep my eye open for a working windows wallet fix, we could always get on allcoins or somewhere after dust settles and we know everything's fixed.

[whatdidshedo]

I am not just blaming Bittrex. Obviously the developer scammed a bunch of people. My problem with Bittrex is this:

At the time of adding a new coin on the exchange, you can also add a value in the database for the max total supply of coins. You can then use this to detect if there are more coins on the exchange than there should be total supply. If this is detected the market is immediately suspended. It would be a very simple check and could be implemented with little effort. In fact you could check this value with the network and suspend the market even before all those coins got put on the exchange. So I believe Bittrex could have caught this if they had better checks. I am not blaming Bittrex, I am blaming the developer but saying that Bittrex should be able to catch these things.

Can someone from Bittrex please explain why they can't do this or if it will be implemented in the future?

For now I have removed all my funds on Bittrex.

Thanks

well obviously coin is dead but i think even bittrex learned from it and could possibly implement it in future, i knew every coin is a risk and even exchange is a risk, so move on and play responsibly i accept my loss you can't win them all but one thing i do is only bet what i can afford to lose on a coin. major fail by dev bittrex got caught in it it's over.

[Stenull]

Some quick facts:

- The moneysupply is decided by the network.  There is no fixed number for Bittrex to compare against.  The moneysupply went up due to the dev's trojan, and if Bittrex checked against the moneysupply they would have been checking against the new huge number, just like everyone else on the network.

- Check the github tree.  The new 1.2.0 release was not submitted as a patch, the entire repo was replaced.  This was certainly intentional to try to make it harder to see what changed.  Both to hide how obvious the original trojan was, and probably to hide the new trojan that was added in 1.2.0.  There is likely no "correct" or "clean" fork, just a choice between two trojanned forks.

- The 1.2.0 release was committed by linked67, not the original dev.  Interesting.  Maybe he forgot to sign out of his real account and into his shill account.

- I lost money on this coin, but I don't blame Bittrex one bit.  They allowed people to buy and sell Ninjacoin, that is their role as an exchange.  Ninjacoin was a shitty trojanned product and there should have been no buyers, but lots of people bought anyway.  It's like blaming NYSE because Enron when bust.  Bittrex didn't force you to buy a shitty coin, they just gave you the opportunity to make a poor decision.  And in this case the source code was even out there for anyone to review and nobody did.

In summary if you bought this coin you bought a coin that was publicly designed to inflate the money supply at block 14000.  Bittrex allowed you to do that.  Congratulations on your purchase, next time you'll be more cautious about what you buy.  I know I will.

I'm not affiliated with Bittrex, just pointing out some facts.  Your hatred should be directed at the dev.

Where hav you see a trojan ? I can bet a lot of people have previous source on there computer and can compare.
If i have make new release instead of patch on github, it's to hide the changes i make on the UI wallet. To make it more hard for chinese copy/paster to replicate me.

The PoS bug was just a "/COIN" missing in the maths, not a trojan. If you don't know from what you speak, please shut up !

This ^

[kryptologist]

I am not just blaming Bittrex. Obviously the developer scammed a bunch of people. My problem with Bittrex is this:

At the time of adding a new coin on the exchange, you can also add a value in the database for the max total supply of coins. You can then use this to detect if there are more coins on the exchange than there should be total supply. If this is detected the market is immediately suspended. It would be a very simple check and could be implemented with little effort. In fact you could check this value with the network and suspend the market even before all those coins got put on the exchange. So I believe Bittrex could have caught this if they had better checks. I am not blaming Bittrex, I am blaming the developer but saying that Bittrex should be able to catch these things.

Can someone from Bittrex please explain why they can't do this or if it will be implemented in the future?

For now I have removed all my funds on Bittrex.

Thanks

well obviously coin is dead but i think even bittrex learned from it and could possibly implement it in future, i knew every coin is a risk and even exchange is a risk, so move on and play responsibly i accept my loss you can't win them all but one thing i do is only bet what i can afford to lose on a coin. major fail by dev bittrex got caught in it it's over.

I agree man it's over. But it would be great if Bittrex could learn and improve on this.

[tokyoghetto]

So this is CENT 2.0?

[coiner5]

bittrex should change the walet to the new fork and allow users that had valid coins before all this shit happen withdraw safely to the new wallets. Why is this so hard to do?

Because the forked wallet removes millions of coins that were already sold. Some people bought for several btc and their coins would be lost from bittrex.

the coins they bought are invalid anyway now, what are they gonna do with them? At least give a chance to withdraw valid coins dammit

Nobody knew that those are invalid. We knew it only when the price hit 1-2 sat. I think they should remove the coin as it is. The coin is dead:(. Never keep your coins in exchange wallets.

The coins were not invalid.  The source code and those on the network running it decide how many coins there are, who owns them, etc.  Ninjacoin operated exactly as it was intended to do.  How it was intended to operate may have been different from what you and everyone else (except the dev) expected, but that is a interpersonal issue not a technical one.

If you had your wallet open and were staking, your client was complicit in the inflation of the moneysupply.  Your client agreed on the new higher number, your client validated the new blocks, etc.

which was not supposed to happen in such amounts, hence, coins are invalid.

Yes, it was supposed to happen.  That was my point.  The inflation in the number of coins was part of the source code and was destined to happen.  You might not have known it was going to happen, but that doesn't make it invalid.  Again, the moneysupply is decided by the network and is not a fixed number.  The "max number of coins" you see in ANN posts are not definitive.  The source code and those who run it are the definitive reference for the moneysupply.

[kryptologist]

bittrex should change the walet to the new fork and allow users that had valid coins before all this shit happen withdraw safely to the new wallets. Why is this so hard to do?

Because the forked wallet removes millions of coins that were already sold. Some people bought for several btc and their coins would be lost from bittrex.

the coins they bought are invalid anyway now, what are they gonna do with them? At least give a chance to withdraw valid coins dammit

Nobody knew that those are invalid. We knew it only when the price hit 1-2 sat. I think they should remove the coin as it is. The coin is dead:(. Never keep your coins in exchange wallets.

The coins were not invalid.  The source code and those on the network running it decide how many coins there are, who owns them, etc.  Ninjacoin operated exactly as it was intended to do.  How it was intended to operate may have been different from what you and everyone else (except the dev) expected, but that is a interpersonal issue not a technical one.

If you had your wallet open and were staking, your client was complicit in the inflation of the moneysupply.  Your client agreed on the new higher number, your client validated the new blocks, etc.

which was not supposed to happen in such amounts, hence, coins are invalid.

Yes, it was supposed to happen.  That was my point.  The inflation in the number of coins was part of the source code and was destined to happen.  You might not have known it was going to happen, but that doesn't make it invalid.  Again, the moneysupply is decided by the network and is not a fixed number.  The "max number of coins" you see in ANN posts are not definitive.  The source code and those who run it are the definitive reference for the moneysupply.

Yes but when Bittrex adds a coin to their exchange they can also input a max supply value. Use this to check with the coin network. It could have been suspended immediately before the coins even went on the exchange. Dev scammed us, Bittrex has weak coin security.

[rudolsen]

This is an unfortunate case where the dev screwed up and/or screwed us all.

We will NOT be taking a fork of this coin.  The damage is already done here.  Our systems worked as designed and our balances match including checking the moneysupply.  I would like to remind everyone that Bittrex is an exchange.  Our responsibility is to ensure that when you trade xxx A for yyy B, that it happens safely.  We do not police what is being traded.

Again, we will not be taking a new wallet or fork of this coin.  The damage done is irreparable and would have been after the first trade.  The market will remain open and we will let this die its natural death like so many coins before it.

Thanks
richie@bittrex

If I understand it clearly, you stay on unofficial blockchain and hold my money on it (even without value). I'm not make any transactions or trade before block 14000. May I request private key of wallet where you keep my money, so I can import them into official fork and make them valid. I know the answer. Should I expect from you same behavior as reaction on any coin fork you listed in future? ..if you decide not update wallet and let trading in wrong one? At least can you provide wallet link of your "new" NinjaTrexCoin so I can withdraw and keep all my original NJAs out of your "exchange" as memento of this trust failure? Could you mark all coin pairs which you are provide to trade and are on unofficial forks, so I can easily recognize them/can't make you rich on fees? Answer to yourself, damage was done.

[kryptologist]

Ninja is dead but I just want a simple answer on this:

At the time of adding a new coin on the exchange, you can also add a value in your internal database for the max total supply of coins. You can then use this to detect if there are more coins on the exchange than there should be total supply. If this is detected the market is immediately suspended. It would be a very simple check and could be implemented with little effort. In fact you could check this value with the network and suspend the market even before all those coins got put on the exchange. So I believe Bittrex could have caught this if they had better checks. I am not blaming Bittrex, I am blaming the developer but saying that Bittrex should be able to catch these things.

Can someone from Bittrex please explain why they can't do this or if it will be implemented in the future?

[coiner5]

So you have to investigate the code of every coin that you buy? I'd rather trade on Polo and feel secure the code has been reviewed/

You don't have to investigate the code, but you should.  You should either review it yourself or you can rely on opinions of people who have.

When you buy a stock you should review the finances of the company to determine if it's solvent and a good investment.  If you don't do this yourself you can choose to rely on the opinions of people who have (stock analysts and ratings agencies).

In fact, a cryptocoin analyst service would make perfect sense.  The analyst would review the source code and the promise of each coin and pass that information on to their subscribers.  An accurate cryptocoin version of S&P would have rated this coin an F.

[sesko]

People you where warned long time ago. DON'T BUY SHITCOINS, do research, ask a lot of question, make sure or insist to community to find someone for review  of code.

If people or community around new coin, would ask from the dev a few basic things. A lot of shitcoins would die instantly.


To blame exchanges? are you serious people. You blame Poloniex for fair warning, you blame Bittrex for not doing anything.

SHAME and BLAME is on everybody that buys a shitcoin.


I never said you should not mine and sell shit coin. Be more diligent when investing money in a shitcoin.

[Stenull]

This is an unfortunate case where the dev screwed up and/or screwed us all.

We will NOT be taking a fork of this coin.  The damage is already done here.  Our systems worked as designed and our balances match including checking the moneysupply.  I would like to remind everyone that Bittrex is an exchange.  Our responsibility is to ensure that when you trade xxx A for yyy B, that it happens safely.  We do not police what is being traded.

Again, we will not be taking a new wallet or fork of this coin.  The damage done is irreparable and would have been after the first trade.  The market will remain open and we will let this die its natural death like so many coins before it.

Thanks
richie@bittrex

If I understand it clearly, you stay on unofficial blockchain and hold my money on it (even without value). I'm not make any transactions or trade before block 14000. May I request private key of wallet where you keep my money, so I can import them into official fork and make them valid. I know the answer. Should I expect from you same behavior as reaction on any coin fork you listed in future? ..if you decide not update wallet and let trading in wrong one? At least can you provide wallet link of your "new" NinjaTrexCoin so I can withdraw and keep all my original NJAs out of your "exchange" as memento of this trust failure? Could you mark all coin pairs which you are provide to trade and are on unofficial forks, so I can easily recognize them/can't make you rich on fees? Answer to yourself, damage was done.

Good point! Shouldn't exchanges follow the real fork?
What if BC or DRK would to fork?? Would you just stay on broken fork and don't give a fuck?

[coiner5]

Ninja is dead but I just want a simple answer on this:

At the time of adding a new coin on the exchange, you can also add a value in your internal database for the max total supply of coins. You can then use this to detect if there are more coins on the exchange than there should be total supply. If this is detected the market is immediately suspended. It would be a very simple check and could be implemented with little effort. In fact you could check this value with the network and suspend the market even before all those coins got put on the exchange. So I believe Bittrex could have caught this if they had better checks. I am not blaming Bittrex, I am blaming the developer but saying that Bittrex should be able to catch these things.

Such a change would be a good precaution and I think it's likely Bittrex will consider adding it.  However you don't seem to have grasped the concept of max number of total coins yet.  The number of coins in the ANN posting is supposed to match the number of coins the source code will produce.  In most cases that number matches, in this case it didn't because the dev lied about the max number.

So a precautionary check like the one you suggest would be a good idea, but the number stored in the database could get out of date.  A coin could legitimately update their source code to produce more coins than originally intended, and therefore such a precautionary check could halt trading in a legitimate coin.

It's a trade-off that Bittrex will have to decide on, it's not a completely obvious choice to make (although I think they should add it, the trade-off seems highly in favor of it).

[JohnBirco]

I know a lot of coin that were on wrong chain with hiccups and still online on bittrex.

Is this coin dead ? NO !
Everything is fxed, people have lost nearly nothing. It was around 14200 or 14400 block until i found the fix an release the fixed source.

NinjaCoin can continue to live !

Must a coin die only because a exchange say us byebye ? NO !
Let bittrex on the wrong chain if they don't want to switch. We can still go on every other exchanges with all the coins from block 1 to 13999.

And p2poolcoin seems to be on the good chain, if some miners can help to move the blochain (at least a little to decrease the diff) it would be nice.

Have you see my nice wallet, i still have a lot of work to do, let's continue ninja story !
Don't let the coin die for a story of 200 or 400 block, that's nothing.

[chrissibel]

the new wallet gives me an error when opening. missing a .dll file.