Scarcity model bullshit.

[sublime5447]

Its failed over and over again. Bitcoin is pointing out all of the failures of basing an economy on a finite item in limited supply.

Do you like KNC's bitcoin mining data center? http://www.veooz.com/photos/rH7iMre.html
Do you like the consolidation?
Do you like the energy cost to create one bitcoin? http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/12/03/fascinating-number-bitcoin-mining-uses-15-millions-worth-of-electricity-every-day/
Do you like the price instability?
Do you like the willy report? http://willyreport.wordpress.com/


http://peacefreedomprosperity.com/7776/inability-bitcoin-serve-rational-economic-calculation/

It sucks having the technology and being so close to something that could change the world but wasting time on repeating the failed attempts of the past.

There is a better way.




Money Power In You
E.C Riegel, Private Enterprise Money, 1944

"There is a treasure buried in your consciousness. If you will dig it up from the debris of superstition and fear that covers it you will gain a freedom and self-mastery that will lift your life to a higher plane. This is the money power in you.

The power to create money with which to purchase wealth, health and happiness actually lies dormant within you. You have thought of the money power as something remote from you and beyond your grasp. You have dreamed of the good you could and would do if you had money power. You have blamed others for not accomplishing this good. You have blamed them for evil economic and political conditions; for unemployment, for poverty, for crime, for war.

It is quite logical to blame these maladies upon the malfunction of the money power, but you have not suspected that the money power resides in you and because of your failure to exert it the world is afflicted with miseries. You have the power; you have the responsibility. The power and responsibility to banish poverty, unemployment, insecurity, misery and war rests entirely with you.

You, in cooperation with other intelligent persons, can drive economic and political evils further and further from the area of your life and ultimately they may be driven from the face of the earth. You can do this by the money power in you, expressed first in your own prosperity and happiness, and radiating to others. You can do it and you must do it. There is no power outside of you that can bring these blessings to you.

Petitioning the Government is like writing to Santa Claus. You need no laws — there is a law, a natural law that governs your money power. You need no government aid. You need only cooperation with and from persons who, like you, have resolved to exert the money power inherent in us all. This power in each of us needs only the recognition and respect of our fellows to spring forth and exert its blessings.

We need not petition Congress and we need not waste time to denounce bankers, for they can neither help nor hinder our natural right to extend credit to each other, and this is the perfect basis for a money system."



"1.The Scarcity Model: A single uniform quantity in limited supply made valuable by its own scarcity.
In other words, the value of this type of money depends on the supply of, and demand for, the money commodity itself. Conventional definitions of money define money only in terms of this model, a "medium of exchange". Examples are: cowries, gold and silver, fiat cash and coins, bank credit, and now, in the model's purest and most spectacularly speculative form, Bitcoin.

2. The Abundance Model. A promise of something specific from someone specific made valuable by its redemption in real production. The value of this type of money is defined by the promised redemption in goods and/or services. As such, this type of money is promises of an indefinite number of non-uniform commodities in indefinite supply and, unlike the limited quantity "coin" concept of money, the total quantity of these credits in circulation does not affect their value, because the value of a credit is defined by what its issuer will redeem it for in real goods and/or services. Examples are: business-to-business barter credits, customer rewards, travel points, discount coupons, mutual credit systems."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyWfUqEyIZc


If you see anyone working on this concept of money please message me Thanks.






 

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[franky1]

$15mill of electric to make bitcoin pfffft. sorry but totally wrong

actual costs are about 8 times less.

after all if it cost 8x the amount to mine it compared to current costs to buy it.. no one would mine it..

3600 coins produced on average per day, $15mill / 3600 = $4166.67

so lets say GHASH had 45% of the network
=1620 bitcoins a day
=OP suggests each bitcoin costs $4166 (based on the maths from the link in the OP)

so why would GHASH pay $6.75mill a day to an electricity company, when they can spend less buying 1620 coins....
Ghash must be utility company investors not bitcoin investors (sarcasm)

.. the article seems to think that miners sell 7 coins at todays prices to cover the electric cost of mining 1 bitcoin..

the articles editor needs to sack their mathematician and the guy that checks facts before publishing(meaning the editor himself)..

[Walsoraj]

Ripple.

[GigaBit]

I like the scarcity model.

Everything that is more rare is worth more. 

[sublime5447]

Ripple works of the scarcity model. I am not sure about dogecoin but I bet it works the same way as bitcoin.

I know the energy cost are less, it says so in the article. I dont know the exact price to mine a coin but it anit cheap. 600 +

[ljudotina]

Dogecoin is -> way.

[BurtW]

2. The Abundance Model. A promise of something specific from someone specific made valuable by its redemption in real production. The value of this type of money is defined by the promised redemption in goods and/or services. As such, this type of money is promises of an indefinite number of non-uniform commodities in indefinite supply and, unlike the limited quantity "coin" concept of money, the total quantity of these credits in circulation does not affect their value, because the value of a credit is defined by what its issuer will redeem it for in real goods and/or services. Examples are: business-to-business barter credits, customer rewards, travel points, discount coupons, mutual credit systems."

This is almost exactly the definition of how Ripple works.  You should really check it out and study it.  I think it is exactly what you are looking for.

Ripple allows anyone to issue their own personal currency.  I could issue BurtBucks, you could issue Sublimers (or whatever you want to call them).  You can issue as many of these notes as you want and you back them with whatever you want.  Check it out.  Do not get side tracked by the Ripple system's own internal Bitcoin like currency (XRPs) that is just a way to jump start the system and pay for it.  You want to look into the way it allows anyone to create their own personal money backed by any good, service, other form of money (USD, Euros, etc.) or commodity (corn, wheat, pot, Bitcoins, etc.)

[jonald_fyookball]

OP, this is totally mixing apples and oranges.

REAL wealth (products, services, etc) can come from a place of abundance because
we are limitless creators.

But I think it is smart to have a LIMITED SUPPLY OF CURRENCY to act as a fair measure/medium
to exchange values.

[Fiftysven]

The high energy cost come with a relativ secure blockchain....doge is wasting less energy but is less secure!

[ljudotina]

The high energy cost come with a relativ secure blockchain....doge is wasting less energy but is less secure!

It needs to be said, that security by hardware pales to security ba software. So BTC could become 1000 times more secure and use alot less energy if it really wanted to (well if core devs wanted to). But as i said many times before, and i will say again, core devs are under paws of hardware manufacturers, and hardware is not going anywhere anytime soon.

[giveBTCpls]

everything is a scarcity model, it's always lucky cunts that get there first, then the rest of people like me (unlucky) try to pic a poverty tier seat on a train that's going at full speed.

[Neodamus]

First of all, I'd just like to state that any model that isn't based off scarcity is a fantasy because reality itself provides multiple limits on us. The only limitless dimension we can ever hope to experience in our lifetimes is our imaginations. The most simple illustration of this is time, in which we all have a limited amount and since all of our lives are built upon a limited and scarce amount of time, we can never hope to build something that is limitless on top of it. Logically, it makes no sense.

However, I'd like to address this abundance model specifically:

The Abundance Model. A promise of something specific from someone specific made valuable by its redemption in real production. The value of this type of money is defined by the promised redemption in goods and/or services. As such, this type of money is promises of an indefinite number of non-uniform commodities in indefinite supply and, unlike the limited quantity "coin" concept of money, the total quantity of these credits in circulation does not affect their value, because the value of a credit is defined by what its issuer will redeem it for in real goods and/or services. Examples are: business-to-business barter credits, customer rewards, travel points, discount coupons, mutual credit systems."

In this system, there is scarcity as well, namely the specific person and the specific good or service. For example, if 100 people have promises that a local carpenter will build a porch for them and that person dies, all those people who have this promise now have a worthless promise because that person will never be able to fulfill their promise. The main abundance in this model would be the amount of people defaulting on their promises.

Abundance is an illusion, scarcity cannot be escaped. The sooner it's accepted, the more practical solutions that can be devised based off of reality.

[SirWilliam]

Personally what I don't like are sockpuppets, trolls and parties invested in other technologies spewing FUD 

Its failed over and over again. Bitcoin is pointing out all of the failures of basing an economy on a finite item in limited supply.

Do you like KNC's bitcoin mining data center? http://www.veooz.com/photos/rH7iMre.html
Do you like the consolidation?
Do you like the energy cost to create one bitcoin? http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/12/03/fascinating-number-bitcoin-mining-uses-15-millions-worth-of-electricity-every-day/
Do you like the price instability?
Do you like the willy report? http://willyreport.wordpress.com/


http://peacefreedomprosperity.com/7776/inability-bitcoin-serve-rational-economic-calculation/

It sucks having the technology and being so close to something that could change the world but wasting time on repeating the failed attempts of the past.

There is a better way.




Money Power In You
E.C Riegel, Private Enterprise Money, 1944

"There is a treasure buried in your consciousness. If you will dig it up from the debris of superstition and fear that covers it you will gain a freedom and self-mastery that will lift your life to a higher plane. This is the money power in you.

The power to create money with which to purchase wealth, health and happiness actually lies dormant within you. You have thought of the money power as something remote from you and beyond your grasp. You have dreamed of the good you could and would do if you had money power. You have blamed others for not accomplishing this good. You have blamed them for evil economic and political conditions; for unemployment, for poverty, for crime, for war.

It is quite logical to blame these maladies upon the malfunction of the money power, but you have not suspected that the money power resides in you and because of your failure to exert it the world is afflicted with miseries. You have the power; you have the responsibility. The power and responsibility to banish poverty, unemployment, insecurity, misery and war rests entirely with you.

You, in cooperation with other intelligent persons, can drive economic and political evils further and further from the area of your life and ultimately they may be driven from the face of the earth. You can do this by the money power in you, expressed first in your own prosperity and happiness, and radiating to others. You can do it and you must do it. There is no power outside of you that can bring these blessings to you.

Petitioning the Government is like writing to Santa Claus. You need no laws — there is a law, a natural law that governs your money power. You need no government aid. You need only cooperation with and from persons who, like you, have resolved to exert the money power inherent in us all. This power in each of us needs only the recognition and respect of our fellows to spring forth and exert its blessings.

We need not petition Congress and we need not waste time to denounce bankers, for they can neither help nor hinder our natural right to extend credit to each other, and this is the perfect basis for a money system."



"1.The Scarcity Model: A single uniform quantity in limited supply made valuable by its own scarcity.
In other words, the value of this type of money depends on the supply of, and demand for, the money commodity itself. Conventional definitions of money define money only in terms of this model, a "medium of exchange". Examples are: cowries, gold and silver, fiat cash and coins, bank credit, and now, in the model's purest and most spectacularly speculative form, Bitcoin.

2. The Abundance Model. A promise of something specific from someone specific made valuable by its redemption in real production. The value of this type of money is defined by the promised redemption in goods and/or services. As such, this type of money is promises of an indefinite number of non-uniform commodities in indefinite supply and, unlike the limited quantity "coin" concept of money, the total quantity of these credits in circulation does not affect their value, because the value of a credit is defined by what its issuer will redeem it for in real goods and/or services. Examples are: business-to-business barter credits, customer rewards, travel points, discount coupons, mutual credit systems."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyWfUqEyIZc


If you see anyone working on this concept of money please message me Thanks.






 

[Elwar]

Gold as a currency for thousands of years and then being usurped by an oppressive government is a great indication that the scarcity model does not work for money.

[jonald_fyookball]

The high energy cost come with a relativ secure blockchain....doge is wasting less energy but is less secure!

It needs to be said, that security by hardware pales to security ba software. So BTC could become 1000 times more secure and use alot less energy if it really wanted to (well if core devs wanted to). But as i said many times before, and i will say again, core devs are under paws of hardware manufacturers, and hardware is not going anywhere anytime soon.

What kind of malarkey is this and what altcoin are you pushing

[Neodamus]

Gold as a currency for thousands of years and then being usurped by an oppressive government is a great indication that the scarcity model does not work for money.

Money will always be at least as scarce as the goods and services it can buy. With a stable, scarce money supply, price will approximate and be driven very close to its true value since people must think very critically about their purchases knowing their money is limited.

When money is abundant and chasing scarce goods and services, there will be massive distortions in price and true value of those goods and services will be much harder to discern since there is much less concern with overpaying/wasting money. Evidence: US Dollar.

If everyone owned an abundant amount of US dollars today, would it make the global economy better or worse? Hopefully the answer is obvious.

[HeliKopterBen]

The value of my money goes up or remains constant over time = scarcity is bad... that argument makes no sense to me.

[waldox]

bitcoin is not finite as you can move to smaller denominations

making exisiting bitcoin holders  richer
new entrants are at a disadvantage

this is compared with fiat where new fiat dollars have the advantage and existing fiat holders are at a disadvantage

[ljudotina]

Gold as a currency for thousands of years and then being usurped by an oppressive government is a great indication that the scarcity model does not work for money.

Gold is not problem...government is

[sublime5447]

2. The Abundance Model. A promise of something specific from someone specific made valuable by its redemption in real production. The value of this type of money is defined by the promised redemption in goods and/or services. As such, this type of money is promises of an indefinite number of non-uniform commodities in indefinite supply and, unlike the limited quantity "coin" concept of money, the total quantity of these credits in circulation does not affect their value, because the value of a credit is defined by what its issuer will redeem it for in real goods and/or services. Examples are: business-to-business barter credits, customer rewards, travel points, discount coupons, mutual credit systems."

This is almost exactly the definition of how Ripple works.  You should really check it out and study it.  I think it is exactly what you are looking for.

Ripple allows anyone to issue their own personal currency.  I could issue BurtBucks, you could issue Sublimers (or whatever you want to call them).  You can issue as many of these notes as you want and you back them with whatever you want.  Check it out.  Do not get side tracked by the Ripple system's own internal Bitcoin like currency (XRPs) that is just a way to jump start the system and pay for it.  You want to look into the way it allows anyone to create their own personal money backed by any good, service, other form of money (USD, Euros, etc.) or commodity (corn, wheat, pot, Bitcoins, etc.)

Right but ripples work on the scarcity principle. If ripples where not limited in supply and free then it would work perfect for me.