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Author Topic: DataTank Mining: 1.2MW 3M Novec Immersion Cooled 2PH Mining Container  (Read 43933 times)
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June 25, 2014, 01:42:46 PM
 #121

• The public sale of capacity units on HavelockInvestments.com has been pushed back (preliminary date Monday July 7, after the U.S. Marshall's  Service Bitcoin auction and the July 4 weekend). In the meantime, early investors may contact us by email.

Can you clarify the exact public sale date and time please? Is it 07/07/2014 at _EXACTLY_ 00:00 UTC/EST/PST?
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June 26, 2014, 08:47:29 AM
 #122

One of the most serious assets that I have seen recently.
Translated into Chinese and posted:
【Havelock】一站式液冷矿场DataTank Mining初定于7月7日进行IPO


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June 26, 2014, 12:21:07 PM
Last edit: June 26, 2014, 01:07:22 PM by antirack
 #123

This is from another thread (do not want to derail their thread). But they couldn't be more wrong I am afraid.

I've really enjoyed meeting and discussing IC with Alex.
Alex is a terrific guy, passionate about his business. I wish him and AC best of luck. Really. I think that the eco system will become stronger if AC will succeed.
I still believe that it's too expensive solution for Bitcoin space. I'm under NDAs and can't elaborate.

Ok, lets see.

DataTank = Cheaper. We can build a few for you if you want, and I can almost guarantee you will love them and thank us later Wink

- Price of DataTank =~$0.50/W = $500/kW.
- Ready to mine machine, including power, network, servers, liquid, everything required (brand name parts).
- Just add internet and a power feed from the grid
- Or even easier, let DataTank Mining run it for you and we charge $18/kW per month (+ a modest 20% managing fee)
- Reduces power consumption (lower leak currents, no fans, etc)
- Lower price is the whole point, why would we build it otherwise?

ASIC hardware side:

- ASIC hardware is now reduced to boards and ASIC chips.
- No more power supplies (ie. SP30 = 2x 1200W, $200-$300? so $100 to $150 per kW)
- No more enclosure ($50 less??)
- No more heat sinks + fans $25 less?)
- No more assembly etc (maybe $50 less?)
- No more heavy duty FedEx shipping charge (maybe $150 less? so $75/kW)
- $300 to $350 saved on each SP30 so far (and days or weeks assembly and purchasing time?)

For heat sink mining you still need a building, some CRACs or fans, and of course power:

- $100/kW cheap hosting (or more) = $600/half year
- Or build your own mine = Huh? few hundred dollars per kW China style to few thousand dollars per kW Washington State style

- 19-Inch racks ($300-$500 in China?)
- Switchgear, power distribution, cables and power strips? (DataTank has fully automated remote PDU)
- How much space for 576 of your SP30? That's what fits in a DataTank.
- 144 racks at 10kW/rack, or 72 racks at 20kW per rack (and 2,500 CFM / 1,180 L/s of air flow per rack)
  (20 to 30 racks in shipping container, so a couple of shipping containers on the way from China just for your empty server racks, another $100 to $200 just for shipping)
- Roof, walls, building etc ?
- Fans, fans, fans. More fans. Even in Iceland. And dust.
- And so on.

There is no doubt in my mind. Heatsink miners will soon stay behind. And go deaf too Wink
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June 26, 2014, 01:08:04 PM
 #124

One of the most serious assets that I have seen recently.
Translated into Chinese and posted:
【Havelock】一站式液冷矿场DataTank Mining初定于7月7日进行IPO

Thanks for posting this!
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June 26, 2014, 03:06:00 PM
 #125

Ok, lets see.

DataTank = Cheaper. We can build a few for you if you want, and I can almost guarantee you will love them and thank us later Wink

- Price of DataTank =~$0.50/W = $500/kW.
- Ready to mine machine, including power, network, servers, liquid, everything required (brand name parts).
- Just add internet and a power feed from the grid
- Or even easier, let DataTank Mining run it for you and we charge $18/kW per month (+ a modest 20% managing fee)
- Reduces power consumption (lower leak currents, no fans, etc)
- Lower price is the whole point, why would we build it otherwise?

ASIC hardware side:

- ASIC hardware is now reduced to boards and ASIC chips.
- No more power supplies (ie. SP30 = 2x 1200W, $200-$300? so $100 to $150 per kW)
- No more enclosure ($50 less??)
- No more heat sinks + fans $25 less?)
- No more assembly etc (maybe $50 less?)
- No more heavy duty FedEx shipping charge (maybe $150 less? so $75/kW)
- $300 to $350 saved on each SP30 so far (and days or weeks assembly and purchasing time?)

For heat sink mining you still need a building, some CRACs or fans, and of course power:

- $100/kW cheap hosting (or more) = $600/half year
- Or build your own mine = Huh? few hundred dollars per kW China style to few thousand dollars per kW Washington State style

- 19-Inch racks ($300-$500 in China?)
- Switchgear, power distribution, cables and power strips? (DataTank has fully automated remote PDU)
- How much space for 576 of your SP30? That's what fits in a DataTank.
- 144 racks at 10kW/rack, or 72 racks at 20kW per rack (and 2,500 CFM / 1,180 L/s of air flow per rack)
  (20 to 30 racks in shipping container, so a couple of shipping containers on the way from China just for your empty server racks, another $100 to $200 just for shipping)
- Roof, walls, building etc ?
- Fans, fans, fans. More fans. Even in Iceland. And dust.
- And so on.

There is no doubt in my mind. Heatsink miners will soon stay behind. And go deaf too Wink

As usual antirack is omitting the cost of:

- water tower
- water pump
- water circulation pipes
- fans in the water tower

His whole marketing campaign is aimed at illiterate/innumerate people, those who can be convinced that the law of thermodynamics can be somehow suspended after paying for an expensive patented 3M cooling fluid. The reality is obvious: you can't omit the heatsink, but it can be either local or remote.

Interestingly, they actually built some of their water-cooled setups so they must have the exact costs available, they just don't disclose them, hoping to snare some semi-literate or semi-numerate investors who'll buy into the "no more heatsinks nor fans" spiel.

Please comment, critique, criticize or ridicule BIP 2112: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54382.0
Long-term mining prognosis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91101.0
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June 26, 2014, 03:35:38 PM
 #126



His whole marketing campaign is aimed at illiterate/innumerate people, those who can be convinced that the law of thermodynamics can be somehow suspended after paying for an expensive patented 3M cooling fluid. The reality is obvious: you can't omit the heatsink, but it can be either local or remote.

Interestingly, they actually built some of their water-cooled setups so they must have the exact costs available, they just don't disclose them, hoping to snare some semi-literate or semi-numerate investors who'll buy into the "no more heatsinks nor fans" spiel.

well, the ''magic'' of two phase immersion cooling is that the change from liquid to vapor state consumes a lot of heat energy! That's thermodynamics, too.
So you need a lot less cooling equipment than with air cooling or normal water cooling.
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June 26, 2014, 05:35:23 PM
 #127



His whole marketing campaign is aimed at illiterate/innumerate people, those who can be convinced that the law of thermodynamics can be somehow suspended after paying for an expensive patented 3M cooling fluid. The reality is obvious: you can't omit the heatsink, but it can be either local or remote.

Interestingly, they actually built some of their water-cooled setups so they must have the exact costs available, they just don't disclose them, hoping to snare some semi-literate or semi-numerate investors who'll buy into the "no more heatsinks nor fans" spiel.

well, the ''magic'' of two phase immersion cooling is that the change from liquid to vapor state consumes a lot of heat energy! That's thermodynamics, too.
So you need a lot less cooling equipment than with air cooling or normal water cooling.

Correct. It's not "heatsink vs no heatsink". A fair comparison is 5000 heatsinks/fans vs 1 giant heatsink/pump/fans. The end result is quite clear from the HK DC with a PUE of less than 1.01.

If 2112 did a bit of reading instead of calling everyone illiterate he would know that you only need a very small amount of novec fluid per KW. In fact as little as $2.5 per KW (200ml @ 4kw) or $2,500 per MW.
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June 26, 2014, 06:33:22 PM
 #128

DataTank isn´t ommitting anything, as the neccesarry cooling equipment is included in the 0.6-0.7$/W cost of the whole setup.

Before calling anyone illiterrate, maybe first open your own eyes and try to understand the technologies at work here, afterwards everyone will be glad to answer any remaining questions.

Oviously the 3M Novec is only used for heat transfer, and doesn´t magically make it dissipate into "nothing", chillers on the top of the Containers are used to get rid of the heat.


However, due to the quicker heat transport away from the chips, you basically only need a giant fan on the chiller to get rid of excess heat, leading to a very good PUE.

You do realize that a facility already exists where asicminer has deployed 0.5MW of equipment?
Please, 2112, go ahead and tell them that their existing facility isn´t supposed to work and ask them, where they are hiding their giant chilling towers and water pumps  Roll Eyes
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June 26, 2014, 07:11:09 PM
 #129

...
Oviously the 3M Novec is only used for heat transfer, and doesn´t magically make it dissipate into "nothing", chillers on the top of the Containers are used to get rid of the heat.
...

As stated before a huge amount of heat energy gets absorbed for changing phase (liquid to vapor/gas) of 3M Novec. That's the advantage to one phase watercooling.





Science, bitch!  Tongue
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June 26, 2014, 08:01:06 PM
Last edit: June 26, 2014, 08:39:28 PM by 2112
 #130

well, the ''magic'' of two phase immersion cooling is that the change from liquid to vapor state consumes a lot of heat energy! That's thermodynamics, too.
So you need a lot less cooling equipment than with air cooling or normal water cooling.
This phase-change occurs only in the "primary loop". I use "loop" somewhat inaccurately because it is a natural convective boiler-condenser setup, not a pumped loop. The Novec is condensed using a normal single-phase water loop with normal radiator and fans at the cold end. They work in series.

Novec immersion cooling is simply a replacement for lack of proper engineering of the mining boards. Bitcoin mining for sure doesn't require large flat boards. All the heat-dissipating components can be directly mounted onto the secondary cooling loop using larger quantity of smaller PCBs. This whole Novec tank is just a distraction here.
As stated before a huge amount of heat energy gets absorbed for changing phase (liquid to vapor/gas) of 3M Novec. That's the advantage to one phase watercooling.
The phase change occurs only in Novec. Then in series with this works a regular single-phase water cooling system.

I'm getting flack for calling people semi-literate or semi-numerate. So what is the better word to describe a person like Lincoln6Echo who seems to have completely missed that the Allied Control cooling system is a series connection of two cooling systems? A mark? A dupe?

I blame this partially on him and partially on deceptive marketing from antirack, and partially on Allied Control being unclear in their marketing materials.

Edit: OK, lets use the word "confused". So we have confused prospecive investors confused be the confusing marketing materials from Allied Control with the confusion increased by antirack (personally) by omitting important necessary items in the cost projection.
 

Please comment, critique, criticize or ridicule BIP 2112: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54382.0
Long-term mining prognosis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91101.0
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June 26, 2014, 08:07:46 PM
 #131

Correct. It's not "heatsink vs no heatsink". A fair comparison is 5000 heatsinks/fans vs 1 giant heatsink/pump/fans. The end result is quite clear from the HK DC with a PUE of less than 1.01.

If 2112 did a bit of reading instead of calling everyone illiterate he would know that you only need a very small amount of novec fluid per KW. In fact as little as $2.5 per KW (200ml @ 4kw) or $2,500 per MW.
OK, by why a sales represenative of Allied Controls can't state this clearly? Why suddenly independent people jump to the defense of Allied Control?

Again, my argument is not only about cost of the Novec fluid. It is about a sum of costs of Novec and the whole secondary loop.

Care to quote actual numbers for the cost of the secondary loop? Don't tell me "is included". Unbundle all the costs the same as antirack did unbundling costs of enclosures and small fans in the air-cooled system.


Please comment, critique, criticize or ridicule BIP 2112: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54382.0
Long-term mining prognosis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91101.0
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June 26, 2014, 08:21:07 PM
 #132

well, the ''magic'' of two phase immersion cooling is that the change from liquid to vapor state consumes a lot of heat energy! That's thermodynamics, too.
So you need a lot less cooling equipment than with air cooling or normal water cooling.
This phase-change occurs only in the "primary loop". I use "loop" somewhat inaccurately because it is a natural convective boiler-condenser setup, not a pumped loop. The Novec is condensed using a normal single-phase water loop with normal radiator and fans at the cold end. They work in series.

Novec immersion cooling is simply a replacement for lack of proper engineering of the mining boards. Bitcoin mining for sure doesn't require large flat boards. All the heat-dissipating components can be directly mounted onto the secondary cooling loop using larger quantity of smaller PCBs. This whole Novec tank is just a distraction here.
As stated before a huge amount of heat energy gets absorbed for changing phase (liquid to vapor/gas) of 3M Novec. That's the advantage to one phase watercooling.
The phase change occurs only in Novec. Then in series with this works a regular single-phase water cooling system.

I'm getting flack for calling people semi-literate or semi-numerate. So what is the better word to describe a person like Lincoln6Echo who seems to have completely missed that the Allied Control cooling system is a series connection of two cooling systems? A mark? A dupe?

I blame this partially on him and partially on deceptive marketing from antirack, and partially on Allied Control being unclear in their marketing materials.

Immersion cooling is still in experimental phase, b/c it is not yet clear what secondary benefits can arise. That's the gamble investors take.

Secondary benefits include:
- rapid deployment
- less/no impact from ambient temperatures
- operating temperature may be adjustable
- higher clock rates may be possible (e.g. 10% increase reduces the capital cost requirements for hashing power, adding to the ROI of the DataTank)

However, to be fair investors need to determine for themselves whether spending bitcoins is worth the gamble. BTC strikes me as undervalued right now, which may confirm what Spondoolies is asserting. But then, by the same logic any investment into bitcoin mining is questionable at the moment, if you don't have access to equipment at cost.

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
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June 26, 2014, 08:25:52 PM
 #133

DataTank isn´t ommitting anything, as the neccesarry cooling equipment is included in the 0.6-0.7$/W cost of the whole setup.

Before calling anyone illiterrate, maybe first open your own eyes and try to understand the technologies at work here, afterwards everyone will be glad to answer any remaining questions.

Oviously the 3M Novec is only used for heat transfer, and doesn´t magically make it dissipate into "nothing", chillers on the top of the Containers are used to get rid of the heat.


However, due to the quicker heat transport away from the chips, you basically only need a giant fan on the chiller to get rid of excess heat, leading to a very good PUE.

You do realize that a facility already exists where asicminer has deployed 0.5MW of equipment?
Please, 2112, go ahead and tell them that their existing facility isn´t supposed to work and ask them, where they are hiding their giant chilling towers and water pumps  Roll Eyes
Actually antirack was intentionally omitting the costs and dimensions of the secondary loop. Allied Control was helping him in their production and editing of the marketing video they did for the FPGA farm. For the Novec tanks they used wide-angle lens whereas for the water tower they used a brief telephoto shot.

I admit that I don't fully understand what is the relation between antirack and Allied Control. I'm primarily against antirack's deceptive marketing. To me he seems like small-time huckster who sold a quantity of small laboratory-size open-loop systems. By "open loop" I mean takes cold water from the faucet and dumps hot water into the drain. Those weren't the industrial-size facilities with different economies of scale. One can still operate "open loop" at the industrial scale if the Bitcoin mine is located near the waterfall or another source of a free cold water.

As to "where are they hiding chilling tower and water pumps"? In the plain sight, on the front of their prospectus. I see a three level pyramid. The fully enclosed "payload" containers are on the bottom. On top of it is a layer of semi-open containers, probably pumps and fans. Then on the top there is a third layer of open frame containers, probably the tops of the water towers. So you have two "overhead" containers per one "payload" container.

Do you have any better, more accurate data, to actually compare the three systems: (0) direct air cooling, (1) single-loop water cooling (2) two-loop series Novec+water cooling?

Please comment, critique, criticize or ridicule BIP 2112: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54382.0
Long-term mining prognosis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91101.0
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June 26, 2014, 08:29:34 PM
 #134

Immersion cooling is still in experimental phase, b/c it is not yet clear what secondary benefits can arise. That's the gamble investors take.

Secondary benefits include:
- rapid deployment
- less/no impact from ambient temperatures
- operating temperature may be adjustable
- higher clock rates may be possible (e.g. 10% increase reduces the capital cost requirements for hashing power, adding to the ROI of the DataTank)

However, to be fair investors need to determine for themselves whether spending bitcoins is worth the gamble. BTC strikes me as undervalued right now, which may confirm what Spondoolies is asserting. But then, by the same logic any investment into bitcoin mining is questionable at the moment, if you don't have access to equipment at cost.
I mostly agree with you. I just wanted to emphasize that you didn't make it clear that you comparing direct air cooled system with two-stage Novec+water cooling system. Maybe some benefits of liquid cooling can be realized in a single-stage water cooling system?

Please comment, critique, criticize or ridicule BIP 2112: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54382.0
Long-term mining prognosis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91101.0
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June 26, 2014, 08:34:51 PM
 #135

Antirack,

I suppose Spondolies looked at Your previous report where You described 176 $/kW capital costs for datacenter and found it the best solution for one who wants to operate DC . They operate their DC just to promote 1 gen loudy miners, they have 18 cents/kw bills (I guess, from wiki on Israel tariff). All You can take from them - made them ready to produce miners ready for Your IC container at a lower price + bulk shipping of such a stuff to Your cheap electricity location after permits of customers . I have tens of sp 10 ready to go for such a trip Smiley

Also You should post something at Coindesk. Guess that $8 mln of dollars for maidsafe network came from there

@yoyoo
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June 26, 2014, 10:33:29 PM
 #136

One of the most serious assets that I have seen recently.
Translated into Chinese and posted:
【Havelock】一站式液冷矿场DataTank Mining初定于7月7日进行IPO



OT: Seeing the Translation of Friedcat is soo funny. "Grilled Cat" "Cats have been roasted" "Bear cat oil-cooked"
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June 26, 2014, 10:48:00 PM
Last edit: June 27, 2014, 12:07:40 AM by antirack
 #137

As usual antirack is omitting the cost of:

- water tower
- water pump
- water circulation pipes
- fans in the water tower

omitting important necessary items in the cost projection.

Again, my argument is not only about cost of the Novec fluid. It is about a sum of costs of Novec and the whole secondary loop.

Actually antirack was intentionally omitting the costs and dimensions of the secondary loop.

I do not understand why you believe that I am omitting or hiding anything. Or why you believe that Allied Control or DataTank Mining does.

These parts are included the price stated ($0.50/W), included in the efficiencies stated, etc.

The system works as described and the cost is as described, with all parts included. It's a turnkey solution.

That is the value proposition of the system. It costs less than other solutions. Why is this so difficult to understand? Why do you need to look for hidden costs where there are none?

The cost is included. For _everything_, including the Novec fluid, the secondary loop, and everything else stated on the site, in the prospectus, etc. it also includes the site preparation (ie. power feed in place, transformers, etc). DataTank Mining prospectus: "full infrastructure cost, including site prep". There is nothing hidden. Also as stated in the prospectus.

I can understand why this all might sound confusing if you are not involved in building such infrastructure or running a facility, after this is all industrial stuff not buying and connecting some ATX power supplies from Newegg.

But I am not sure why you would think I am hiding that "fact" - rest assured it's not my intention.

About the Novec, the work around today is to build dense hardware, and I believe we are just on the right track ("1,000kW of mining hardware in a volume smaller than the bed of a pickup truck"). 3M is not the only company selling Post-It's, why would they remain the only company selling fluids? At this moment 3M seems to be the best, for various reasons. DataTank works with any other fluid too, they don't mind which magic juice you put in them.

Back to the coolers you believe I am omitting:

You can see the "machines" right here, so there is no questions that they will are required.





If you read the paper "Bitcoin, 2-Phase Immersion Cooling and the Implications for HPC" that was also published in Electronics Cooling, you can basically find a user guide how to build your own system.

I write "the custom tank condensers use enhanced tubes borrowed from the refrigeration industry. Each is fed facility water directly from a four module dry tower sized for Hong Kong’s hot and humid weather (Table 3)." And there is data.

http://www.allied-control.com/publications/Full_Version_Bitcoin_2-Phase_Immersion_Cooling_and_the_Implications_for_HPC.pdf

Here are some other links to show how it works, and of course a radiator is required.

http://www.allied-control.com/blog/immersion-2-tech-details-cooling-hundreds-of-kilowatt-with-1500-watt

(you'll see right there in above's blog post that the closed loop water system is a vital part, and how to design it, and again pictures of dry coolers too)





Excerpt:

Quote

Oversized Closed Loop Water Circuit

In order to accommodate a possible increase in capacity, we have built a simple closed loop water circuit. When sizing the flow, pipe size and other properties of the circuit, our engineers intentionally went “a couple of sizes larger” than what is technically required. Water volume is around 1200 liters and it's a closed loop water system without any chemicals, no water is being wasted.

The extra cost of using larger pipes is minimal, especially in view of the gained extra lifespan and room to for much higher IT loads. As a side effect, the efficiency of the water system is greatly improved, as larger systems run smoother, which leads to further energy savings.

Silent Operation

Our system automatically slows the dry cooler to the minimum required fan speed, which is at this time of the year (around 25°C outside air temps) just 10-15Hz. The result is a dry cooler which operates below the background noise levels. Besides, the dry cooler employs fans that borrow their blade design from birds and aero-acoustic research. The same can be said for our water pumps. With only one of them online at a time, they rarely run more than 25Hz and the noise level when standing right next to them is less than that of a small 3HP outdoor air condition unit.

If you build your system at a source near free cooling (ie. a cold river), you could replace the dry cooler with a simple "garden hose" that runs up and down a few stretches in the river. This again is mentioned in the prospectus:

Quote
availability of free cooling may reduce cost by automatically disabling cooling equipment, eliminate cooling modules, or allow sharing of cooling module with several clusters.

If you replace your 'dry tower' with a wet tower, you could make it even more efficient, because now you have evaporation a second time, but now you are evaporating a lot of water (Facebook uses liters of water per day per kW!) and how cares at this point if you save (arbitrary, to make a point) 99.75 or 99.43% of energy? And wet towers are a mess, you have to clean them a lot and hence you'll need two (redundancy) or switch off your mine for a half day once a moth.

If you click on the TECH link on the top of http://www.datatank-mining.com you will end up at most of these pictures and documents I am stating here.

https://drive.google.com/a/allied-control.com/folderview?id=0ByWHHc0u_thNMWtQeDNiT2duU0E&usp=drivesdk#grid


Physics are physics.

I am not hiding anything.

Why would I want to mislead anyone about these facts and why you are so hostile Huh Have you been working on a business plan that was interrupted by DTM (ie. the idea about the large scale water cooling system/cold plate with the smaller PCBs)?

If so, keep physics in mind:

http://books.google.com.hk/books?id=0t-HrUf1aHEC&pg=PA20&lpg=PA20&dq=100,000+W/m2-K.&source=bl&ots=tCOzLR5cVJ&sig=v-nA8-lRSBwZ4ZOAqwi3rGVdhsE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Pf8hUe2iNfCiiAePlYH4AQ&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

Translation: 2-phase is more efficient. 2-phase is passive (= zero energy spent). Water cooling is less efficient. You need to spend a lot of energy to make it happen. That's why 2-phase cooling is employed, not only in DataTanks. For decades. But open bath is new. And Bitcoin densities Wink

There is no reason for bashing each others solution, they all have their place and even air cooling won't go away anytime soon IMHO. Go ahead build yours, only after we all build our large scale implementations we can tell which one will actually do a better job.

Either way, since you replied to the post about the Spondoolies Tech SP30, I am saying they should dump it all in liquid immersion cooling tanks and use passive 2-phase immersion cooling, and you are saying they should build smaller PCBs and mount it all on a giant heat sink. Both obviously saves them a lot of money.

I'd like to request to take this to a separate thread so we don't spam the DataTank Mining thread with technicalities. There are threads about 2-phase immersion cooling.
NotLambchop
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June 26, 2014, 11:13:24 PM
 #138

...

...

Bah!  Now THIS is the future!

antirack
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June 26, 2014, 11:37:14 PM
 #139

Bah!  Now THIS is the future!



The standard radiators on top of _each_ DataTank system are sized for up to 1.7MW with 50C water in the loop and air temps of hot and humid Hong Kong. If you run this in Iceland or even Washington State the capacity goes up significantly (lower air temps). That should last for a while.

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June 27, 2014, 12:04:46 AM
 #140

Belatedly, but you finally admitted that "heathinks and fans are required":
and of course a radiator is required.

Physics are physics.

I am not hiding anything.

Why would I want to mislead anyone about these facts and why you are so hostile Huh Have you been working on a business plan that was interrupted by DTM?
While you've made numerous posts that they aren't required, last just couple of hours ago.
- Fans, fans, fans. More fans. Even in Iceland. And dust.
- And so on.

There is no doubt in my mind. Heatsink miners will soon stay behind. And go deaf too Wink
I really have hard time to understand your motivation, why you've spend so much time on this board to confuse prospective buyers/investors with word games. Don't tell me you aren't confusing, the most recent example of a confused reader is Lincoln6Echo.

You keep giving intentionally slanted numbers. When making comparison with SP30 you've used only the volume of "payload" 2TEU cointainer, whereas your whole installation requires somewhere around 6TEU or 9TEU of space for operation and 4TEU to 6TEU for shipping/storage. Why aren't you making that clear?

I'll let other prospects to do a more detailed analysis of your numbers, I just wanted to point another obvious omission: power supplies. Bitcoin mine is not a datacenter or supercomputer. It does not require buying and immersion cooling large quantity of modular precision power supplies that output +12V,+5,+3.3,-5,-12V. It will work with non-precision regulated ones, e.g. DC rectifying welders (note for home experimenters: defeat the "arc start" circuitry in them). Using high power DC supplies will also allow you to directly tap the utility power at the kilovolt voltages and skip the costs and loses in the intermediate step-down transformers (which once again antirack omitted, conveniently for him).

The side benefit of researching cheap single-DC-voltage power supplies will be that the interested reader will see the proper power electrical engineering at the megawatt scale and see the properly engineered cooling and isolation systems using liquids (water, oil) and gases (air, SF6).

Please comment, critique, criticize or ridicule BIP 2112: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54382.0
Long-term mining prognosis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91101.0
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