Argentina Debt Crisis: U.S. Demands 1.5 billion cash (Bitcoin to Rescue?)

[Honeypot]

There was a time before capitalism

I'm well aware.  I wonder if you are aware of what its like?  Really like?

In the not-too-distant future they'll look back on capitalism and say, "I wonder if you are aware of what it was REALLY like? It was horrible, the vast majority lived as slaves in all but name..."

I'm afraid you are out of your depth, friend. Your myopia blinds you from the truth.

If you take all future obligations the US has promised our real national debt is north of 100 trillion dollars. That much money doesn't even exist.

Don't worry, we leave the vast majority of that debt to our children and grandchildren, essentially selling them off as slaves to foreign banksters before they're even born...

...Surely there won't be any negative political ramifications of that fact, eh?

You keep making vague, stupid, grandoise statements without backing them up. I agree that the modern western world consists of what I call "plantation-states" - where the citizens are functionally slaves forced to support the agenda of the elites through direct and indirect taxation. (Much like 19th century plantation slave owners would allow their skilled-trade slaves to keep a portion of their free-lance earnings while pocketing the rest.) However this is not due to capitalism but rather precisely the opposite, because it occurs through the use of centralized political power working against open competition and free-market capitalism. You correctly perceive the injustice, but have the remedy and the malady mixed up.

Typical ignorant 1st world kid trying to sound profound, and all the education he got ever did waas to make him even more or a loud mouth.

Also, none of you even known what a plantation is or what slavery looks like, so don't dream you actually know anything. That includes any blacks today.

[thecoindoctor]

U.S. wants 1.5 billion cash, Argentina says they can't but are willing to settle.  

If I were in Argentina, I'd be moving my savings to Bitcoin ASAP.

Argentina: Won't submit to 'extortion' on debt

http://www.sfgate.com/news/politics/article/High-court-rejects-Argentina-s-appeal-over-debt-5555358.php#photo-6463213

Why would they need to move it to bitcoin?

[Beliathon]

There was a time before capitalism

I'm well aware.  I wonder if you are aware of what its like?  Really like?

In the not-too-distant future they'll look back on capitalism and say, "I wonder if you are aware of what it was REALLY like? It was horrible, the vast majority lived as slaves in all but name..."

I'm afraid you are out of your depth, friend. Your myopia blinds you from the truth.

If you take all future obligations the US has promised our real national debt is north of 100 trillion dollars. That much money doesn't even exist.

Don't worry, we leave the vast majority of that debt to our children and grandchildren, essentially selling them off as slaves to foreign banksters before they're even born...

...Surely there won't be any negative political ramifications of that fact, eh?

You keep making vague, stupid, grandoise statements without backing them up.

It's a bad habit I must admit. The truth is I am in possession of a commodity even rarer than Bitcoin. It's called "radical imagination", and for me it is a feeling similar to being in love. An emotional state that can be difficult to express in words, but for the first time in a long time I have hope for humanity. I will share something personal about myself, with no ego I will tell you I have what could be considered "exceptional" intelligence, and for most of my life that has meant a great deal of suffering, depression, and anxiety. Imagine yourself as a peace-loving, compassionate, non-violent human being who is stuck living in a world of violent chimps. Imagine your entire childhood being held under the power of these creatures, and you may have a glimpse into my suffering. The one good thing about suffering is that it is extremely fertile soil for growing knowledge. I survived the worst periods of my life and in the aftermath sought desperately to understand WHY I have suffered so much, and this journey of self-understanding led me to question everything I had once believed.

True wisdom is not the accumulation of ever more knowledge. True wisdom comes from UNLEARNING all the false truths that you were so damn sure about. You have been lied to your entire life, by people who have been lied to their entire lives. That's reality. Hard to grasp, I know.

And yeah, I know, more grandiose claims without backing them up, more asserting my superior intelligence. What can I tell you, I'm speaking from the heart without ego, there's no other way for me to tell it than to tell it as it is.
 

I agree that the modern western world consists of what I call "plantation-states" - where the citizens are functionally slaves forced to support the agenda of the elites through direct and indirect taxation. (Much like 19th century plantation slave owners would allow their skilled-trade slaves to keep a portion of their free-lance earnings while pocketing the rest.) However this is not due to capitalism but rather precisely the opposite, because it occurs through the use of centralized political power working against open competition and free-market capitalism. You correctly perceive the injustice, but have the remedy and the malady mixed up.

No, I have nothing mixed up. Capitalism - like the nation-state - necessitates systematic heirarchy-based violence to exist. Just as was the case in the age of outright slavery, ours is a world governed by violence and the threat thereof. Wage-slavery has the same requirement as slavery.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, on this little spec of dust we call Earth there is a zero-sum game between violence and reason. As one waxes, the other wanes. In the end our survival will come down to whether or not we allow reason to vanquish the rule of violence once and for all.

Bitcoin offers our first real opportunity to move past the "might makes right" paradigm of capitalism and the nation-state, and move toward a more just, equal, sane world that is governed by reason. We damn well better take it.

[Littleshop]

U.S. wants 1.5 billion cash, Argentina says they can't but are willing to settle.  

If I were in Argentina, I'd be moving my savings to Bitcoin ASAP.

Argentina: Won't submit to 'extortion' on debt

http://www.sfgate.com/news/politics/article/High-court-rejects-Argentina-s-appeal-over-debt-5555358.php#photo-6463213

Why would they need to move it to bitcoin?

Really it's too late for that. But the point would be if it was in Bitcoin he could not be seized. The private investors will be attempting to seize assets all over the world including even things like spacelaunch contracts.

[pening]

Bitcoin offers our first real opportunity to move past the "might makes right" paradigm of capitalism and the nation-state, and move toward a more just, equal, sane world that is governed by reason. We damn well better take it.

For all the bluff and bluster, I don't think you really even understand what capitalism is.  I think you are confusing it with something else, political systems probably.  Bitcoin is fundamentally capitalist and a future based on it would certainly not do anything to alleviate problems of equality - those with will be richer than those without.  Bitcoin has no impact either way on the concepts of nation states, which are not defined by their use of currency.  Capitalism doesn't care for violence, that's a socio-political matter, not for economics.  If  profit can be made from violence, it certainly will be, but greater profit and more importantly productivity can be made without violence, so that's where the real capitalist want to be.  And "Wage-slavery" is a trite term, an oxymoron that doesn't understand what actual slavery really is, the affects or impact on the subjects of it.  Other than that, you talk a lot of sense.  

[ArnoldChippy]

Bitcoin offers our first real opportunity to move past the "might makes right" paradigm of capitalism and the nation-state, and move toward a more just, equal, sane world that is governed by reason. We damn well better take it.

For all the bluff and bluster, I don't think you really even understand what capitalism is.  I think you are confusing it with something else, political systems probably.  Bitcoin is fundamentally capitalist and a future based on it would certainly not do anything to alleviate problems of equality - those with will be richer than those without.  Bitcoin has no impact either way on the concepts of nation states, which are not defined by their use of currency.  Capitalism doesn't care for violence, that's a socio-political matter, not for economics.  If  profit can be made from violence, it certainly will be, but greater profit and more importantly productivity can be made without violence, so that's where the real capitalist want to be.  And "Wage-slavery" is a trite term, an oxymoron that doesn't understand what actual slavery really is, the affects or impact on the subjects of it.  Other than that, you talk a lot of sense.  

The beauty of the current system of wage slavery is not that you are (physically) forced to become one, more that you are conditioned throughout childhood to become one. It is very difficult to shake off 20+ years of imprinting for most people.

[jc01480]

So Argentina can become the next Puerto Rico?  No thanks.

[CoolBliss]

sure to hold your savings in "traditional" curencies would be a big mistake for Argentina people now

[ShakyhandsBTCer]

U.S. wants 1.5 billion cash, Argentina says they can't but are willing to settle.  

If I were in Argentina, I'd be moving my savings to Bitcoin ASAP.

Argentina: Won't submit to 'extortion' on debt

http://www.sfgate.com/news/politics/article/High-court-rejects-Argentina-s-appeal-over-debt-5555358.php#photo-6463213

Why would they need to move it to bitcoin?

Really it's too late for that. But the point would be if it was in Bitcoin he could not be seized. The private investors will be attempting to seize assets all over the world including even things like spacelaunch contracts.

Even if they had it in bitcoin, private investors could seize whatever assets Argentina were to buy with their bitcoin when they go to spend it

[jonald_fyookball]

Bitcoin offers our first real opportunity to move past the "might makes right" paradigm of capitalism and the nation-state, and move toward a more just, equal, sane world that is governed by reason. We damn well better take it.

For all the bluff and bluster, I don't think you really even understand what capitalism is.  I think you are confusing it with something else, political systems probably.  Bitcoin is fundamentally capitalist and a future based on it would certainly not do anything to alleviate problems of equality - those with will be richer than those without.  Bitcoin has no impact either way on the concepts of nation states, which are not defined by their use of currency.  Capitalism doesn't care for violence, that's a socio-political matter, not for economics.  If  profit can be made from violence, it certainly will be, but greater profit and more importantly productivity can be made without violence, so that's where the real capitalist want to be.  And "Wage-slavery" is a trite term, an oxymoron that doesn't understand what actual slavery really is, the affects or impact on the subjects of it.  Other than that, you talk a lot of sense.  

True capitalism is lasseiz-faire capitalism.  It's a french word meaning "let do".  In this kind of system,
the only actions that are illegal are those of initiating force, frauds, or threats against others.
It is the antithesis of violence.

If you advocate anything else, then you are advocating, to various degrees, statism, socialism,
and force against the individual.

[Beliathon]

Debt is slavery.

[Littleshop]

U.S. wants 1.5 billion cash, Argentina says they can't but are willing to settle.  

If I were in Argentina, I'd be moving my savings to Bitcoin ASAP.

Argentina: Won't submit to 'extortion' on debt

http://www.sfgate.com/news/politics/article/High-court-rejects-Argentina-s-appeal-over-debt-5555358.php#photo-6463213

Why would they need to move it to bitcoin?

Really it's too late for that. But the point would be if it was in Bitcoin he could not be seized. The private investors will be attempting to seize assets all over the world including even things like spacelaunch contracts.

Even if they had it in bitcoin, private investors could seize whatever assets Argentina were to buy with their bitcoin when they go to spend it

Depends on how they did things.  If they only spend the BTC in places that don't recognize the debt they will be fine.  If the debt was not valid in China, they could purchase items in China shipped directly to Argentina.   I am not advocating this, I am just pointing it out. 

[NotAtOld]

Western Union now prohibits sending money to the USA from Argentina, so Bitcoin may be the only way out.

[Swordsoffreedom]

Western Union now prohibits sending money to the USA from Argentina, so Bitcoin may be the only way out.

That would make sense since they need money to prevent their currency collapsing and are shutting out all the channels
In my opinion though you are right to get money out of that country you would use Bitcoin
Getting money in is easier though lol.

[ShakyhandsBTCer]

U.S. wants 1.5 billion cash, Argentina says they can't but are willing to settle.  

If I were in Argentina, I'd be moving my savings to Bitcoin ASAP.

Argentina: Won't submit to 'extortion' on debt

http://www.sfgate.com/news/politics/article/High-court-rejects-Argentina-s-appeal-over-debt-5555358.php#photo-6463213

Why would they need to move it to bitcoin?

Really it's too late for that. But the point would be if it was in Bitcoin he could not be seized. The private investors will be attempting to seize assets all over the world including even things like spacelaunch contracts.

Even if they had it in bitcoin, private investors could seize whatever assets Argentina were to buy with their bitcoin when they go to spend it

Depends on how they did things.  If they only spend the BTC in places that don't recognize the debt they will be fine.  If the debt was not valid in China, they could purchase items in China shipped directly to Argentina.   I am not advocating this, I am just pointing it out. 

The investors have intercepted ships before to pay for the judgment. What is to say that that the goods from China (in this example) could not be intercepted in route to Argentina?

[Beliathon]

The investors have intercepted ships before to pay for the judgment. What is to say that that the goods from China (in this example) could not be intercepted in route to Argentina?

"So what if they need the food/clothes/materials to build shelter, WE NEED OUR PROFITS MORE! We earned that money fair and square!"

Capitalism always eventually devolves down to its root violence/force, doesn't it?

[ebliever]

The investors have intercepted ships before to pay for the judgment. What is to say that that the goods from China (in this example) could not be intercepted in route to Argentina?

"So what if they need the food/clothes/materials to build shelter, WE NEED OUR PROFITS MORE! We earned that money fair and square!"

Capitalism always eventually devolves down to its root violence/force, doesn't it?

Your perception of capitalism and the alternatives is precisely backwards. The only alternative to free markets (capitalism) is unfree markets, in which one party is coercively forced into a transaction they would otherwise not make. It sounds like you have some experience with these unfree markets and have been brainwashed into calling them capitalism, when they are the precise opposite. Socialists are well known in the real world for their sequestration of profits "for the good of the people" into their own pockets, the needs of the people notwithstanding. The poverty of communism, the mediocre living standards of socialism, and the gulags and prison camps of such societies are proof enough of that.

In a free-market system (if there are any that remain in the world today), if one party is being coerced they should have redress under the rule of law in the courts and other public venues to make their case and seek redress. It is through the rule of law and voluntary transactions between equal, free parties that you will find a solution to your ills, not in desiring to lord it over other institutions and doing unto them as you perceive they've done unto you.

[jonald_fyookball]

The investors have intercepted ships before to pay for the judgment. What is to say that that the goods from China (in this example) could not be intercepted in route to Argentina?

"So what if they need the food/clothes/materials to build shelter, WE NEED OUR PROFITS MORE! We earned that money fair and square!"

Capitalism always eventually devolves down to its root violence/force, doesn't it?

Your perception of capitalism and the alternatives is precisely backwards. The only alternative to free markets (capitalism) is unfree markets, in which one party is coercively forced into a transaction they would otherwise not make. It sounds like you have some experience with these unfree markets and have been brainwashed into calling them capitalism, when they are the precise opposite. Socialists are well known in the real world for their sequestration of profits "for the good of the people" into their own pockets, the needs of the people notwithstanding. The poverty of communism, the mediocre living standards of socialism, and the gulags and prison camps of such societies are proof enough of that.

In a free-market system (if there are any that remain in the world today), if one party is being coerced they should have redress under the rule of law in the courts and other public venues to make their case and seek redress. It is through the rule of law and voluntary transactions between equal, free parties that you will find a solution to your ills, not in desiring to lord it over other institutions and doing unto them as you perceive they've done unto you.

+1. By definition, laissez faire capitalism prohibits inititiary force against innocent value producers.  All other systems including socialism, communism, etc require force backed by threats of violence.

 Not sure if he is open minded enough to understand your post.  Brainwash is an apt term here.

[ArnoldChippy]

Someone needs to explain which version of capitalism we're using because if there's one thing I'm sure about, it is that markets are not free.

[Erdogan]

Someone needs to explain which version of capitalism we're using because if there's one thing I'm sure about, it is that markets are not free.

There is only one, and that is where markets are free. Now you have to understand what free is: Actors may buy or sell without being forced physically, not held and not pushed around, and also are not subject to fraud.

Edit: If the market changes due to other causes, like the coffee price rises if there is a bad summer, that is not unfree. Also if the price changes due to other actors freely enters bids or asks, is also not unfree. Only when other individuals alone or in association uses force not compatible with the above rights, is it unfree.

A typical non-free market nowadays, is where some entity by means of physical force reserves for itself all selling or all buying, or grants it to a privileged company. The same to a lesser degree if that entity demands taxes or fees. This doesn't mean that the price function is destroyed, rather it is skewed. The stamp fee on house sales is an example. Most markets are mostly free, with a small tax placed on everyone alike, including neighbouring markets. There is only one market, the global one, if you take the birds view.

The interest rate market, which should among other things regulate the volume of investment contra consumption,  is grossly skewed by the hand of the central banks.