how should coin developers be remunerated?

[YarkoL]

I was referring to this scenario

12 different special addresses at start. Blockchain does not allow address A to be used as an input until Nth block, address B unitl 2Nth block, etc.

Premine distributed over group of addresses that
are hardcoded so that their balances cannot be spent
until predetermined block height.

[1714803558]

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[1714803558]

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[1714803558]

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[1714803558]

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[1714803558]

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[Spoetnik]

If you can't foot the bill for your own coin you should not be expecting payment for it later
or taking it by force with a pre-mine (then cashing it out later when guys get bored and wander off and no one is looking)

you idiots in the scene support crypto-welfare.. they have their hand out smug with attitude like we owe them !
fuck em..

if i wanted to have a kid do i send the bill to you altcoin mouth piece's ? YOU pay for it !

few areas in life is as utterly fucked up and corrupt and outright stupid as crypto.
we're debating things with greedy corrupt scumbags who think Scams and Clones and IPO's and Pre-mine's and Crowd Funding and Angel investing etc.. is all good shit.

Crypto-Excuses™ for retard greedy lazy deceitful fucktard scammers and their greedy idiot supporters who want a slice of the Premined Pie..  

[coinsolidation]

we're debating things with greedy corrupt scumbags who think Scams and Clones and IPO's and Pre-mine's and Crowd Funding and Angel investing etc.. is all good shit.

What about good old hard work, with no premine, instamine, ipo, taxation, unfair distribution or anything of the like?

If somebody creates an alternative currency with zero value, and earns some value for it over time by working hard, whilst mining or buying a tiny fractional percentage for themselves, is that fair?

For example is satoshi had kept say 500 BTC for himself out of the millions we have, for a few years of hard work, would you begrudge him that?

[YarkoL]

If you can't foot the bill for your own coin you should not be expecting payment for it later
or taking it by force with a pre-mine (then cashing it out later when guys get bored and wander off and no one is looking)

Seems that you react without taking time to reflect
what is being proposed.

..but in your case that is perfectly OK.  

[Spoetnik]

i am saying NOTHING should be proposed.

read the topic title..

they are not entitled to anything nor do they deserve anything ..it's open source software after all.
and many of these greedy dipshits should be in jail for charging money for open source code other people wrote and GPL'd.
debating on how i should charge people for open source software is typical idiot fucktard logic.. no big surprise around here 

save the excuses.. they don't work on me

[AliceWonder]

they are not entitled to anything nor do they deserve anything ..it's open source software after all.

Ideology doesn't pay the bills.

[coinsolidation]

i am saying NOTHING should be proposed.

read the topic title..

they are not entitled to anything nor do they deserve anything ..it's open source software after all.
and many of these greedy dipshits should be in jail for charging money for open source code other people wrote and GPL'd.
debating on how i should charge people for open source software is typical idiot fucktard logic.. no big surprise around here 

save the excuses.. they don't work on me

But that is exactly what you do.

[Este Nuno]

i am saying NOTHING should be proposed.

read the topic title..

they are not entitled to anything nor do they deserve anything ..it's open source software after all.
and many of these greedy dipshits should be in jail for charging money for open source code other people wrote and GPL'd.
debating on how i should charge people for open source software is typical idiot fucktard logic.. no big surprise around here 

save the excuses.. they don't work on me

So you would never donate to a developer who worked hard on a currency that you like?

Lots of open source developers now contribute to their projects for a living. Because people who use the software see the benefit in enabling full time development which will progress the software.

Where would Linux be now without being able to pay professionals to work full time? Donating to something like the Linux foundation is clearly in the best interest off lots of large corporations which is why we see lots of them donating large amounts of money on a yearly basis.

[Spoetnik]

they are not entitled to anything nor do they deserve anything ..it's open source software after all.

Ideology doesn't pay the bills.

you should design a business model on paying your bill by using someone else free open source code.. write if you wan to do that maybe.

and you wanna pay bills ? get a job.

cloning an altcoin using other people's free GPL source code does not entitle you to a pay check in one form or another.

and and

snarky little quips or sayings that have no relevance don't win arguments.
what pays bills ? getting a job.

or i guess by finding a way to take money by force from victims and scam supporters on endless digital ponzi schemes.

show me one fucking coin here that a guy deserves to be paid for .

[Spoetnik]

i am saying NOTHING should be proposed.

read the topic title..

they are not entitled to anything nor do they deserve anything ..it's open source software after all.
and many of these greedy dipshits should be in jail for charging money for open source code other people wrote and GPL'd.
debating on how i should charge people for open source software is typical idiot fucktard logic.. no big surprise around here  

save the excuses.. they don't work on me

But that is exactly what you do.

bullshit, i don't release coins and i also don't sit around here trying to find ways to cook up a so called "distribution model" with an integrated paycheck for myself.

[Spoetnik]

i am saying NOTHING should be proposed.

read the topic title..

they are not entitled to anything nor do they deserve anything ..it's open source software after all.
and many of these greedy dipshits should be in jail for charging money for open source code other people wrote and GPL'd.
debating on how i should charge people for open source software is typical idiot fucktard logic.. no big surprise around here 

save the excuses.. they don't work on me

So you would never donate to a developer who worked hard on a currency that you like?

Lots of open source developers now contribute to their projects for a living. Because people who use the software see the benefit in enabling full time development which will progress the software.

Where would Linux be now without being able to pay professionals to work full time? Donating to something like the Linux foundation is clearly in the best interest off lots of large corporations which is why we see lots of them donating large amounts of money on a yearly basis.

I never seen one i felt worth donating too except for Bitcoin.. the rest can go fuck themselves.
and it's one thing to post a donation address and it's quite another to add a premine etc..
donating to the Linux foundation is real and legit and great option.
paying coin cloners is not .

you guys just want to justify your posting ponzi schemes and wanna discuss the best way to get paid for doing it..
cloners already make lots of money by exploiting all kinds of advantages i have seen in dozens of ways in the last year
and you guys are playing dumb about that and ignoring the fact that the dev position has been exploited BAD.. pretty much 100% of the time.
if being able to mine the coin or what ever on MINUTE ONE of the coins release is not enough then your being greedy.
Why do you guys think your entitled to a paycheck over top of your supported paying for electricity or service costs ?

you guys are playing dumb little games, saying how do i get paid ? i am doing the work..
But your only doing the work to get paid in the first place !
IF you were truly interested in doing the work you would do it for free and pay what little costs incurred out of pocket by getting a job.

i know i am a life long coder who has created endless programs online ALL FOR FREE for close to 15 years.. that is a LOT of software u have coded and posted online !
so spare me your weak ass greedy pathetic arguments.
coin cloners don't deserve fuck all !
The perks you get from being the guy posting the coin and having access to it on day one is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaar more than enough payment.. don't be greedy .

[den.faulkner1990]

The community appears to have moved towards screaming scam every time they see the potential for a coin developer to make some money on a coin they created, released, and supported.

So as a community, what method of remuneration would you be happy with?

If you create something really new and stable that can becomes new Bitcoin some day - ever 1%premine is pretty much. Some about 0.5%for all dev's and promoution team and then just donation's. If the coin is really good - this amount is enough for team. In the opposite case  - they deserve no profit.

[Este Nuno]

i am saying NOTHING should be proposed.

read the topic title..

they are not entitled to anything nor do they deserve anything ..it's open source software after all.
and many of these greedy dipshits should be in jail for charging money for open source code other people wrote and GPL'd.
debating on how i should charge people for open source software is typical idiot fucktard logic.. no big surprise around here 

save the excuses.. they don't work on me

So you would never donate to a developer who worked hard on a currency that you like?

Lots of open source developers now contribute to their projects for a living. Because people who use the software see the benefit in enabling full time development which will progress the software.

Where would Linux be now without being able to pay professionals to work full time? Donating to something like the Linux foundation is clearly in the best interest off lots of large corporations which is why we see lots of them donating large amounts of money on a yearly basis.

I never seen one i felt worth donating too except for Bitcoin.. the rest can go fuck themselves.
and it's one thing to post a donation address and it's quite another to add a premine etc..
donating to the Linux foundation is real and legit and great option.
paying coin cloners is not .

you guys just want to justify your posting ponzi schemes and wanna discuss the best way to get paid for doing it..
cloners already make lots of money by exploiting all kinds of advantages i have seen in dozens of ways in the last year
and you guys are playing dumb about that and ignoring the fact that the dev position has been exploited BAD.. pretty much 100% of the time.
if being able to mine the coin or what ever on MINUTE ONE of the coins release is not enough then your being greedy.
Why do you guys think your entitled to a paycheck over top of your supported paying for electricity or service costs ?

you guys are playing dumb little games, saying how do i get paid ? i am doing the work..
But your only doing the work to get paid in the first place !
IF you were truly interested in doing the work you would do it for free and pay what little costs incurred out of pocket by getting a job.

i know i am a life long coder who has created endless programs online ALL FOR FREE for close to 15 years.. that is a LOT of software u have coded and posted online !
so spare me your weak ass greedy pathetic arguments.
coin cloners don't deserve fuck all !
The perks you get from being the guy posting the coin and having access to it on day one is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaar more than enough payment.. don't be greedy .

Who's the 'you guys' you keep referring to? No one is doing premines or anything like that.

The thread was simply meant as a place to discuss how developers should be remunerated. And if you think donations are the only way they should be remunerated then that's a valid argument to make, but you're not really making any argument. You're just screaming 'ponzi this' and 'scam that'.

You assume that this thread is full of 'scammers' as you put it but if you've been paying attention that's actually not the case at all.

If you think that this altcoin scene is full of bad actors then threads like this where the community can have a rational discussion about important issues are important. Just try to take a deep breath first before making assumptions.

[coinsolidation]

The community appears to have moved towards screaming scam every time they see the potential for a coin developer to make some money on a coin they created, released, and supported.

So as a community, what method of remuneration would you be happy with?

If you create something really new and stable that can becomes new Bitcoin some day - ever 1%premine is pretty much. Some about 0.5%for all dev's and promoution team and then just donation's. If the coin is really good - this amount is enough for team. In the opposite case  - they deserve no profit.

The thing being created is already launched now, Bitmark. We originally planned for a 0.25% taxation on each block, however rejected this and moved to a donation based Bitmark Foundation, where all donations are in the BTM currency only, locked until for a year at least.

My goal was not to create something which earned profit, but to create something which ensured that if Bitmark was widely adopted, the team working on it would have a reasonable amount of the currency to support continued development and further focus on enabling greater adoption.

[AliceWonder]

I never seen one i felt worth donating too except for Bitcoin.. the rest can go fuck themselves.

Like it or not, bitcoin will fail without other coins.
Decentralizations means more than one coin for the market itself to choose from, the market should not be centralized on a single currency.

The limited supply of bitcoin means demand for currency will result in the creation of alternate currency.

Like it or not, bitcoin was the first of its kind and the first always has design issues that could have been done better, because the first of its kind didn't have real world experience to draw upon.

Personally I want the next coin that has major success to be open source, and the best way to see that happen is for there to be a profit motive.

Clearly pre-mine where the developer gets it all at the start is a bad model, too easy to scam.

But a pre-mine where the developer slowly gets access to it over a 3 year period, that's only profitable if the coin is a success - the developer only profits if a lot of early adopters profit and continue to profit.

I don't want Google or PayPal creating the next digital currency that gets broad International adoption. I want it to be open source, and skilled developers need to be paid.

[Willisius]

Don't get me wrong here, I do not support premining in general. But consider this: The devs having a premine can give them an incentive to make their coin better. The more successful their coin, the more their premine is worth. Note that in the overwhelming majority of cases this doesn't apply, due to the overwhelming majority of cases being scams.

[Este Nuno]

Don't get me wrong here, I do not support premining in general. But consider this: The devs having a premine can give them an incentive to make their coin better. The more successful their coin, the more their premine is worth. Note that in the overwhelming majority of cases this doesn't apply, due to the overwhelming majority of cases being scams.

One problem with this is that while they have incentive to make their coin better, it's only until they sell their premine at which point they have no more incentive to work on the coin.

The whole premine - pump - dump thing has been done to death as everyone knows. New solutions are needed that balance fairness and incentive. So far the IPM is the best idea. Time locked coins are another good one as well.

Donations can work only with a community that is fully behind a coin and has the resources to support it, which is not easy. Some people might have the will to support a project, but not have the funds to match their enthusiasm.

[YarkoL]

The whole premine - pump - dump thing has been done to death as everyone knows. New solutions are needed that balance fairness and incentive. So far the IPM is the best idea. Time locked coins are another good one as well.

So what about AliceWonder's proposal? I think its strength is
its simplicity. It is understandable to the non-techies, and
because of that great at inspiring confidence towards the dev(s).  

[Este Nuno]

The whole premine - pump - dump thing has been done to death as everyone knows. New solutions are needed that balance fairness and incentive. So far the IPM is the best idea. Time locked coins are another good one as well.

So what about AliceWonder's proposal? I think its strength is
its simplicity. It is understandable to the non-techies, and
because of that great at inspiring confidence towards the dev(s). 

Right, that's what I was referring to when I mentioned "time locked coins". That one could work as well.

[coinsolidation]

But a pre-mine where the developer slowly gets access to it over a 3 year period, that's only profitable if the coin is a success - the developer only profits if a lot of early adopters profit and continue to profit.

A tax per block does the same thing.
A Transaction fee tax has the greatest incentive as the rewards only come when people actively use the coin It forces the development team to do everything they can to encourage adoption.