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Question: Has anything you've read here or on the Neighbourhood Pool Watch blog changed your mining habits for the better?
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I don't mine

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Author Topic: Neighbourhood Pool Watch  (Read 45582 times)
Tittiez
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October 11, 2012, 12:54:47 AM
 #281


You accidentally a : in the link.
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organofcorti
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October 11, 2012, 01:16:59 AM
 #282


Oops! Fixed. Thanks for the sharp eye, Tittiez.

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organofcorti
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October 30, 2012, 10:36:04 AM
 #283

In this installment of Neighborhood pool watch I present part one of a three part series on BitcoinPool.

From the post:

Quote
6. Discussion and conclusions

I first noticed some anomalies in BitcoinPool's published data, and on 10th September 2012 contacted them to discuss my findings. Unfortunately I could not convince them that the data was anomalous in any way, and then Geebus simply stopped responding. I've not heard from them since and so I have decided to publish what I have.

I hope it's clear that I am not inferring that the Geebus or FairUser have acted dishonestly, however I can say with 95% confidence that BitcoinPool's shares per round are much longer on average than expected, and we cannot reject that possibility that the shares per round do not belong to the expected statistical distribution. From this I can also say that Geebus and FairUser should be much more concerned about this than they appear.

In the next post I will analyse in more detail where the anomalies lie, and hopefully provide sufficient information for Geebus and FairUser to look for possible problems in their pool. In a later post I will analyse the "pool hopping protection" that the pool features.


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organofcorti
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November 01, 2012, 12:58:25 PM
 #284

Another non-pool post, NPW 9.1 ASIC choices is written to help miners determine which ASIC device will be best for them.

Quote
If my assumption that the average increase in D is 5% per difficulty period, then regardless of your differing mining environment it is plain that of the devices assessed the BFL SC Single will always be more profitable to run than any other miner and will have a longer profitable life time. It will also net more in the first year than the Avalon or the bASIC, and will usually pay for itself sooner than the other devices, depending on the local mining environment.

If electricity is cheap or free and you don't think you'll start mining after D = 30 million, then the bASIC will pay for itself almost as quickly or slightly faster than the BFL SC Single, but won't net you as much in the first year. For a low starting difficulty and low electricity costs, the Avalon will net close to the BFL SC Single, but will take longer to pay for itself.


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Bitinvestor
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November 01, 2012, 01:06:52 PM
 #285

Do you work for BSL? It is unknown how many watts the bASIC will use, but it won't use 300 watts. There have been hints in Tom's thread that it will be around 100 watts.

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November 01, 2012, 01:15:17 PM
 #286

Do you work for BSL? It is unknown how many watts the bASIC will use, but it won't use 300 watts. There have been hints in Tom's thread that it will be around 100 watts.

No, if you had actually bothered read the post you'll note I explicitly write that I don't work for BFL.  If you can link to a better estimate on power usage then please do.

Edit: I also explain how to do the calculations yourself and I've encouraged readers to do it for themselves. If you're not simply trolling, why not do your own calculations with your own estimates of power use? Further, I did note in the post that I will update the post as and when new and updated information becomes available.

tl;dr: Please read the linked post before commenting.

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Graet
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November 01, 2012, 01:31:15 PM
 #287

Do you work for BSL? It is unknown how many watts the bASIC will use, but it won't use 300 watts. There have been hints in Tom's thread that it will be around 100 watts.

No, if you had actually bothered read the post you'll note I explicitly write that I don't work for BFL.  If you can link to a better estimate on power usage then please do.

Edit: I also explain how to do the calculations yourself and I've encouraged readers to do it for themselves. If you're not simply trolling, why not do your own calculations with your own estimates of power use? Further, I did note in the post that I will update the post as and when new and updated information becomes available.

tl;dr: Please read the linked post before commenting.
I don't think its officially announced - so much spam and offtopic in bASIC thread I cant sift through it all.
but Tom is selling 1000W PSUs to run "10" bASIC from - broadly suggesting that they will draw under 100W each

great work on the write up, and yep, people with updated info should plug it in rather than throw accusations :0
cheers
graet

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November 01, 2012, 01:41:36 PM
 #288

Do you work for BSL? It is unknown how many watts the bASIC will use, but it won't use 300 watts. There have been hints in Tom's thread that it will be around 100 watts.

No, if you had actually bothered read the post you'll note I explicitly write that I don't work for BFL.  If you can link to a better estimate on power usage then please do.

Edit: I also explain how to do the calculations yourself and I've encouraged readers to do it for themselves. If you're not simply trolling, why not do your own calculations with your own estimates of power use? Further, I did note in the post that I will update the post as and when new and updated information becomes available.

tl;dr: Please read the linked post before commenting.
I don't think its officially announced - so much spam and offtopic in bASIC thread I cant sift through it all.
but Tom is selling 1000W PSUs to run "10" bASIC from - broadly suggesting that they will draw under 100W each

great work on the write up, and yep, people with updated info should plug it in rather than throw accusations :0
cheers
graet

Glad I'm not the only one to give up trying to follow that thread. I think I'll wait until I get a clear indication from manufacturers of the power use specs before I write an updated post.

But for readers of this thread who did not read the post, the whole point of the post was not just to compare products (although I did that in the conclusion). It was also to explain how a reader can do the same estimations I did. It's much easier to understand the results if you minimise complications and assumptions.

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Bitinvestor
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November 01, 2012, 01:47:28 PM
 #289

people with updated info should plug it in rather than throw accusations :0

Give me some time, I just had lunch. Tom posted some photos of his new place and on one of them the caption read "bASIC's will do 54Gh/s at under 100watts". I saw it myself but it has since been removed. I take it as an unofficial estimate.

holy bovine

Quote
bASIC's will do 54Gh/s at under 100watts
http://www.flickr.com/photos/88427916@N07/8075593408/in/photostream


awww, tom edited the description...now i just sound crazy. at least psilan can back me up Tongue (i do have a screenshot though).

In addition to that, the bASIC can be powered by a molex plug and someone stated that the maximum wattage a molex plug can supply is somewhere around 120-130 watts (I can't remember the exact number). Hope that helps.

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November 01, 2012, 01:56:39 PM
 #290

people with updated info should plug it in rather than throw accusations :0

Give me some time, I just had lunch. Tom posted some photos of his new place and on one of them the caption read "bASIC's will do 54Gh/s at under 100watts". I saw it myself but it has since been removed. I take it as an unofficial estimate.

holy bovine

Quote
bASIC's will do 54Gh/s at under 100watts
http://www.flickr.com/photos/88427916@N07/8075593408/in/photostream


awww, tom edited the description...now i just sound crazy. at least psilan can back me up Tongue (i do have a screenshot though).

In addition to that, the bASIC can be powered by a molex plug and someone stated that the maximum wattage a molex plug can supply is somewhere around 120-130 watts (I can't remember the exact number). Hope that helps.

Thanks for that. I'll update the post (with your maximum figure, 130 W - I prefer to use a conservative figure) during the next seven days assuming no other estimates come to light in that time. An official estimate - or one guaranteed not to change for at least a month - would be nice though.

If anyone else has any power usage, hashrate, and cost estimates for the other ASIC devices for which I couldn't determine estimates, I'd be grateful if you'd post them here with a link.

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Aseras
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November 01, 2012, 05:59:41 PM
 #291

Aren't you forgetting that the BFL SC and bASIC are going to need a PC of some sort, which is going to add at least another 100 watts?

The avalon is a complete standalone unit.
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November 01, 2012, 06:14:51 PM
 #292

Aren't you forgetting that the BFL SC and bASIC are going to need a PC of some sort, which is going to add at least another 100 watts?

The avalon is a complete standalone unit.

1) It is dead simple to build a computer that uses less than 100W. A normal Ivy Bridge desktop can consume 60W at idle which is about the load that mining puts on the system. Small linux systems could mine using single digits watts.
2) There's no requirement that you can run only one unit per computer. Several Singles or bASIC units could be run per computer, or even a couple minirigs.
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November 01, 2012, 08:25:17 PM
 #293

Isn't it a bit too early to evaluate ASIC parameters ? :)

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November 01, 2012, 09:08:37 PM
 #294

Aren't you forgetting that the BFL SC and bASIC are going to need a PC of some sort, which is going to add at least another 100 watts?

The avalon is a complete standalone unit.

No, I didn't forget that. The blog post does state my assumptions most clearly.


I didn't know that Avalon was stand alone - and that will make a difference. Thanks for letting me know. Do you have a link to confirm this?

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organofcorti
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November 01, 2012, 09:13:48 PM
 #295

Isn't it a bit too early to evaluate ASIC parameters ? Smiley

What, because no device has even shipped yet? Yes, it's definitely too early to come to a final decision on which is best.

But the post does address how to assess them so when there are shipped products. The biggest problem I'd noted was a lack of a simple, systematic and easy to follow method of assessment, and the post addresses that.

So, any word on your product lines' specs yet?

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November 01, 2012, 09:33:11 PM
 #296

Isn't it a bit too early to evaluate ASIC parameters ? :)
What, because no device has even shipped yet? Yes, it's definitely too early to come to a final decision on which is best.

But the post does address how to assess them so when there are shipped products. The biggest problem I'd noted was a lack of a simple, systematic and easy to follow method of assessment, and the post addresses that.

So, and word on your product lines' specs yet?
What I mean is that no one knows their exact power requirements yet, which is very important.
No, I don't know exact power figures on our product too, yet.

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November 01, 2012, 10:02:48 PM
 #297

Isn't it a bit too early to evaluate ASIC parameters ? Smiley
What, because no device has even shipped yet? Yes, it's definitely too early to come to a final decision on which is best.

But the post does address how to assess them so when there are shipped products. The biggest problem I'd noted was a lack of a simple, systematic and easy to follow method of assessment, and the post addresses that.

So, and word on your product lines' specs yet?
What I mean is that no one knows their exact power requirements yet, which is very important.
No, I don't know exact power figures on our product too, yet.

Yes, I knew what you meant, and I agree it's very important. I hope readers consider the blog post more as a primer on how to determine which ASIC will be best for their mining environment.

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November 02, 2012, 11:16:56 AM
 #298

I've written an updated post with the suggested specifications:

http://organofcorti.blogspot.com/2012/11/92-asic-choices-update-2nd-november.html

I've attempted to stick to consensus, so I wont update again until there's new published information about device specs or I've made another transcription error.


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November 05, 2012, 08:55:28 AM
 #299

Hmm ... I think it needs a big red watermark across it saying ... these numbers are fictional - don't take any notice of it.

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November 05, 2012, 08:58:05 AM
 #300

Hmm ... I think it needs a big red watermark across it saying ... these numbers are fictional - don't take any notice of it.

Hmmm ... I think kano didn't read the blog post:

Quote
Although the initial reason for the first ASIC choices post was to show miners some of the calculations that could be used to help determine which ASIC would be the right choice for their mining environment, most attention was focussed on the charts I used to illustrate the calculations. I'm kicking myself for not having used fake ASIC names and specifications but having used real devices I have a responsibility to ensure the specifications used are as correct as consensus opinion make them.

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