This is why Ghash sucks and is worse than you think.

[QuestionAuthority]

Are you going to pay for it? Free pools aren't free for the operator. You need an ulterior motive to run a free pool.

Spam it with ads or something, people browsing stats can look at ads at the same time and the ads pay for holding the server up? Wouldn't this be the easiest solution?

Servers don't seem that expensive anyway.

Interesting idea but I don't think spam would work because it's not a website were talking about. You don't sit and watch your pools front page all day.

Servers come in all sizes and speeds. They aren't grossly expensive but they aren't free. Here's a nice one for $10k
http://www.allhdd.com/7945h2u-ibm-system-x3650-m3-1x-intel-xeon-6-core-l5640-2-26ghz-4gb-ram-mga-g200e-2x-gigabit-ethernet-2u-rack-server-new-bulk-pack-.html

[1714869738]

1714869738

[1714869738]

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[ajareselde]

Yay another 51% attack thread.

I don't think ghash will ever even plan any of that shit, they are profiting way too much already by people buying their gh/s and they get a huge % of their mining.

Agreed, there is no point for them to try anything malicious with all those profits from pool fee.
Even if something is to happen, i believe it would be fixed in short time.

But that kind of uncertinty is definetly not something bitcoin comunity should be proud about, in this insanely expensive market capitalisation to have such vonerabilities is something that should never come even as a possibility.

[galbros]

Maybe this is a stupid question, but if the Bitcoin Foundation is supposed to support the health of the bitcoin community couldn't they set up a free pool to compete with Ghash?  They could limit membership or something.  I guess that would really hurt the other pools, but Ghash is already doing that.

[QuestionAuthority]

Maybe this is a stupid question, but if the Bitcoin Foundation is supposed to support the health of the bitcoin community couldn't they set up a free pool to compete with Ghash?  They could limit membership or something.  I guess that would really hurt the other pools, but Ghash is already doing that.

That's not stupid but it would still have the effect of concentrating power in the hands of a few board members. Probably still a better idea than what we have now. I'm not sure where they would house the equipment; do they even have a brick & mortar office yet?

[iluvpie60]

So what do you suggest we should do about it other than post threads that spread FUD?

Because I can almost guarantee to you that no changes will be made to the protocol.

Sorry, don't get me wrong, I too have tried to "come up" with a solution but the only solution is to change the protocol which means change BTC to an alt.

So any suggestions?

How about we ban morons like you who just post random dumb posts that never answer a question.

[seriouscoin]

It doesn't matter if the honest nodes don't want to accept anything from the attacker.
The attacker has enough hashrate to change the rules.

How is the attacker (a miner and node(s)) going to force me to change the software (node) on my computer so he can modify the rules of the protocol?

Easy, he can't.

Seriously, either I didn't get what a 51% ownership of the network is, or you still don't understand the dangers of it.
Don't know which.

Maybe someone more knowledgeable on the subject can elaborate.......

Have you read the wiki which gives a very simple explanation of what an attacker with a lot of hash power can and can not do?

Have you?

Please stop arguing when you dont understand crap.

Having a longest chain doesnt mean they can change the rules. The rules are set by nodes.

In the event of 51%, there will be a folk of blockchains. The network can react by completely ignore blocks from the attacker (updating client required). This is a complete hard fork. Hence we only see this as disruptive attack. Its still a damage to bitcoin.

Now, since GHash is a pool, the second they do this attack, its clients will move their hashrate else where and GHash will have nothing but shot themself in the foot.

The practicality of this attack is close to nil. There is better way of hurting btc for far less the cost.
 

CoiledCoin used merged mining similar to Namecoin. LukeJr was able to use Eligius' combined hashing power to execute a 51% attack against the new CoiledCoin blockchain. The Eligius-mined blocks contained no transactions, effectively slowing the function of the Coiledcoin network to a crawl. The same could be done with Bitcoin.

I don't really think Ghash.IO has any intent to do anything but profit from being the largest pool any more than I thought Tycho intended to harm Bitcoin when Deepbit was the front runner. The possibility exists that a government or other entity that wants to harm Bitcoin does not need to invest a fortune in equipment to do damage. They can simply use your equipment to do it. PoW is a flaw that needs to be corrected before Bitcoin exits beta and becomes production software. Many would say Bitcoin is no longer in beta because the market cap says so. If that's true then this problem needs to be solved now before anyone loses any more money to this experiment.

You're missing a key point is that Eligius Bitcoin miners dont mine or care for scamcoins about anything but profit hence Luke Ghash can effectively disrupt the network for a long time (he becomes a single largest miner in the Bitcoin that scamcoin's network).

Another point is the remaining miners scamcoin's participants are not robust enough to effectively ignore Ghash.IOEligius. Everyone is in it for pump and dump including many Bitcoiners ( get rich quick scheme)

FIFY

You're just proving your stupidity.

Bitcoin miners are not mining scamcoins on Eligius. They're mining BTC. Your air head just doesnt get it does it?

[CoinMode]

Is there any evidence for GHash double spending the coins so far? Only a few days ago they issued a press release, denying any plans to do so. As the biggest mining pool, GHash has done a lot [that should have earned them some amount of trust] in the Bitcoin sector. People need to remember that before indulging in death threats and name calling.

Your implied message is absolutely sickening to the core. Think hard about what you just said and find the fault that makes it incompatible with a trustless network.

[QuestionAuthority]

It doesn't matter if the honest nodes don't want to accept anything from the attacker.
The attacker has enough hashrate to change the rules.

How is the attacker (a miner and node(s)) going to force me to change the software (node) on my computer so he can modify the rules of the protocol?

Easy, he can't.

Seriously, either I didn't get what a 51% ownership of the network is, or you still don't understand the dangers of it.
Don't know which.

Maybe someone more knowledgeable on the subject can elaborate.......

Have you read the wiki which gives a very simple explanation of what an attacker with a lot of hash power can and can not do?

Have you?

Please stop arguing when you dont understand crap.

Having a longest chain doesnt mean they can change the rules. The rules are set by nodes.

In the event of 51%, there will be a folk of blockchains. The network can react by completely ignore blocks from the attacker (updating client required). This is a complete hard fork. Hence we only see this as disruptive attack. Its still a damage to bitcoin.

Now, since GHash is a pool, the second they do this attack, its clients will move their hashrate else where and GHash will have nothing but shot themself in the foot.

The practicality of this attack is close to nil. There is better way of hurting btc for far less the cost.
 

CoiledCoin used merged mining similar to Namecoin. LukeJr was able to use Eligius' combined hashing power to execute a 51% attack against the new CoiledCoin blockchain. The Eligius-mined blocks contained no transactions, effectively slowing the function of the Coiledcoin network to a crawl. The same could be done with Bitcoin.

I don't really think Ghash.IO has any intent to do anything but profit from being the largest pool any more than I thought Tycho intended to harm Bitcoin when Deepbit was the front runner. The possibility exists that a government or other entity that wants to harm Bitcoin does not need to invest a fortune in equipment to do damage. They can simply use your equipment to do it. PoW is a flaw that needs to be corrected before Bitcoin exits beta and becomes production software. Many would say Bitcoin is no longer in beta because the market cap says so. If that's true then this problem needs to be solved now before anyone loses any more money to this experiment.

You're missing a key point is that Eligius Bitcoin miners dont mine or care for scamcoins about anything but profit hence Luke Ghash can effectively disrupt the network for a long time (he becomes a single largest miner in the Bitcoin that scamcoin's network).

Another point is the remaining miners scamcoin's participants are not robust enough to effectively ignore Ghash.IOEligius. Everyone is in it for pump and dump including many Bitcoiners ( get rich quick scheme)

FIFY

You're just proving your stupidity.

Bitcoin miners are not mining scamcoins on Eligius. They're mining BTC. Your air head just doesnt get it does it?

Did you're mother have any children that lived dumb fuck? I guess you're too fucking stupid to realize the same things your stupid ass thinks could happen only to an altcoin can happen to Bitcoin too. Come back when you grow up and learn to recognize subtleties. My ignore list just keeps growing.

[seriouscoin]

It doesn't matter if the honest nodes don't want to accept anything from the attacker.
The attacker has enough hashrate to change the rules.

How is the attacker (a miner and node(s)) going to force me to change the software (node) on my computer so he can modify the rules of the protocol?

Easy, he can't.

Seriously, either I didn't get what a 51% ownership of the network is, or you still don't understand the dangers of it.
Don't know which.

Maybe someone more knowledgeable on the subject can elaborate.......

Have you read the wiki which gives a very simple explanation of what an attacker with a lot of hash power can and can not do?

Have you?

Please stop arguing when you dont understand crap.

Having a longest chain doesnt mean they can change the rules. The rules are set by nodes.

In the event of 51%, there will be a folk of blockchains. The network can react by completely ignore blocks from the attacker (updating client required). This is a complete hard fork. Hence we only see this as disruptive attack. Its still a damage to bitcoin.

Now, since GHash is a pool, the second they do this attack, its clients will move their hashrate else where and GHash will have nothing but shot themself in the foot.

The practicality of this attack is close to nil. There is better way of hurting btc for far less the cost.
 

CoiledCoin used merged mining similar to Namecoin. LukeJr was able to use Eligius' combined hashing power to execute a 51% attack against the new CoiledCoin blockchain. The Eligius-mined blocks contained no transactions, effectively slowing the function of the Coiledcoin network to a crawl. The same could be done with Bitcoin.

I don't really think Ghash.IO has any intent to do anything but profit from being the largest pool any more than I thought Tycho intended to harm Bitcoin when Deepbit was the front runner. The possibility exists that a government or other entity that wants to harm Bitcoin does not need to invest a fortune in equipment to do damage. They can simply use your equipment to do it. PoW is a flaw that needs to be corrected before Bitcoin exits beta and becomes production software. Many would say Bitcoin is no longer in beta because the market cap says so. If that's true then this problem needs to be solved now before anyone loses any more money to this experiment.

You're missing a key point is that Eligius Bitcoin miners dont mine or care for scamcoins about anything but profit hence Luke Ghash can effectively disrupt the network for a long time (he becomes a single largest miner in the Bitcoin that scamcoin's network).

Another point is the remaining miners scamcoin's participants are not robust enough to effectively ignore Ghash.IOEligius. Everyone is in it for pump and dump including many Bitcoiners ( get rich quick scheme)

FIFY

You're just proving your stupidity.

Bitcoin miners are not mining scamcoins on Eligius. They're mining BTC. Your air head just doesnt get it does it?

Did you're mother have any children that lived dumb fuck? I guess you're too fucking stupid to realize the same things your stupid ass thinks could happen only to an altcoin can happen to Bitcoin too. Come back when you grow up and learn to recognize subtleties. My ignore list just keeps growing.

Good job digging yourself a bigger hole dumb ass.

You forget the part that miners mining bitcoins have financial incentives which they dont with scam coins.

Now i dont feel sorry for you at all losing money to the scams, suck living a hater's life.

[QuestionAuthority]

Good job digging yourself a bigger hole dumb ass.

You forget the part that miners mining bitcoins have financial incentives which they dont with scam coins.

Now i dont feel sorry for you at all losing money to the scams, suck living a hater's life.

ROFLMAO

[ShakyhandsBTCer]

Maybe this is a stupid question, but if the Bitcoin Foundation is supposed to support the health of the bitcoin community couldn't they set up a free pool to compete with Ghash?  They could limit membership or something.  I guess that would really hurt the other pools, but Ghash is already doing that.

There are other 0% fee pools out there.

Ghash is very good at marketing and making their stats pages, and website in general look very "pretty"

[kingscrown]

remember to read my interview with them on 51% and more - http://fuk.io/cexio-ghashio-jeffrey-smith-interview-exclusive/

[Grinder]

remember to read my interview with them on 51% and more - http://fuk.io/cexio-ghashio-jeffrey-smith-interview-exclusive/

You had some good questions, too bad he didn't answer them at all.

[sumantso]

It doesn't matter if the honest nodes don't want to accept anything from the attacker.
The attacker has enough hashrate to change the rules.

How is the attacker (a miner and node(s)) going to force me to change the software (node) on my computer so he can modify the rules of the protocol?

Easy, he can't.

Seriously, either I didn't get what a 51% ownership of the network is, or you still don't understand the dangers of it.
Don't know which.

Maybe someone more knowledgeable on the subject can elaborate.......

Have you read the wiki which gives a very simple explanation of what an attacker with a lot of hash power can and can not do?

Have you?

Please stop arguing when you dont understand crap.

Having a longest chain doesnt mean they can change the rules. The rules are set by nodes.

In the event of 51%, there will be a folk of blockchains. The network can react by completely ignore blocks from the attacker (updating client required). This is a complete hard fork. Hence we only see this as disruptive attack. Its still a damage to bitcoin.

Now, since GHash is a pool, the second they do this attack, its clients will move their hashrate else where and GHash will have nothing but shot themself in the foot.

The practicality of this attack is close to nil. There is better way of hurting btc for far less the cost.
 

CoiledCoin used merged mining similar to Namecoin. LukeJr was able to use Eligius' combined hashing power to execute a 51% attack against the new CoiledCoin blockchain. The Eligius-mined blocks contained no transactions, effectively slowing the function of the Coiledcoin network to a crawl. The same could be done with Bitcoin.

I don't really think Ghash.IO has any intent to do anything but profit from being the largest pool any more than I thought Tycho intended to harm Bitcoin when Deepbit was the front runner. The possibility exists that a government or other entity that wants to harm Bitcoin does not need to invest a fortune in equipment to do damage. They can simply use your equipment to do it. PoW is a flaw that needs to be corrected before Bitcoin exits beta and becomes production software. Many would say Bitcoin is no longer in beta because the market cap says so. If that's true then this problem needs to be solved now before anyone loses any more money to this experiment.

Thats the problem, if government or other malicious entity decides to attack Bitcoin it will set up a few pools and offer big incentives or force a couple of the bigger pools and it will easily kill Bitcoin. This so totally anti decentralized that I am surprised that we have reached this stage.

[sumantso]

The solution to this "problem" could not be simpler.
We need more free pools.
Why is Eligius, with its difficult to comprehend CPPSRB payout system the only free alternative to free GHASH??

Simply make a free pool that is simpler to understand than Eligius and BAM...  problem solved.

GHASH interface  is cleaner than Eligius, and its payout scheme is easier to understand than Eligius'.

Shit Eligius pays out 105% NMC because many people can't even sign a transaction to get their share from the pool.

LukeJr and WK are smart and they're not lowering their standards to accommodate anyone.


What really sucks is that people like the OP here are sitting around complaining rather than pro-actively setting up a free pool to compete against GHASH.


Simply set up a free pool.

Its not simple, somebody deciding to attack will simply set up a few pools and offer rewards.

This is an inherent flaw in any PoW coin.