This is why Ghash sucks and is worse than you think.

[jabo38]

http://hackingdistributed.com/2014/06/16/how-a-mining-monopoly-can-attack-bitcoin/

The guys that wrote this aren't forum trolls, but people that have studied and studied this over and over.

Really?? How can Ghash be so destructive?

1. People are in denial
2. Ghash's strength lets it get an unfair advantage (selfish miners like this)
3. Ghash official un-decentralized bitcoin (now we can not longer say it is decentralized, but distributed like Ripple)

This is another problem with PoW in general as implemented currently by Bitcoin.  The actually system encourages this kind of thing to happen because people are incentivised to do it.  If Bitcoin is to stay strong the system needs to be changed so that people are incentivised to keep it decentralized.  

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[S4VV4S]

So what do you suggest we should do about it other than post threads that spread FUD?

Because I can almost guarantee to you that no changes will be made to the protocol.

Sorry, don't get me wrong, I too have tried to "come up" with a solution but the only solution is to change the protocol which means change BTC to an alt.

So any suggestions?

[SOAD]

I disagree. I think people are making a problem where there isnt one.

[jabo38]

So what do you suggest we should do about it other than post threads that spread FUD?

Because I can almost guarantee to you that no changes will be made to the protocol.

Sorry, don't get me wrong, I too have tried to "come up" with a solution but the only solution is to change the protocol which means change BTC to an alt.

So any suggestions?

I agree with you.  I am just a normal user and don't know how to come up with a solution.  I have read that Gavin has been thinking about this and is possibly going to write something in the code. 

It seems like to me the important thing that I can do is to keep awareness on this issue. 

Yes, this thread's title is FUD, but the linked article is very real thoughts about the issue.

Ignoring it won't make it better. 

Bitcoin is on a path towards something ugly.

I really love Bitcoin and so I am bringing up this issue.  Even if I can't come up with the answer and you can't, hopefully somebody else will think upon it and come up with the answer if enough people show support. 

Simply ignoring it won't make it go away. 

[jabo38]

I disagree. I think people are making a problem where there isnt one.

Can you elaborate on which of the articles' points you disagree with?

[S4VV4S]

I disagree. I think people are making a problem where there isnt one.

The problem was there long before Bitcoin core was released.

The answer to the problem is that we (the community and miners) should stick united and try and fight it.

I find that to be a bigger problem due to the fact that people are greedy.

We want a trustless system based on trust (amongst us)?

Nope....

[franky1]

I disagree. I think people are making a problem where there isnt one.

thats because you "trust" ghash wont abuse the power they now have.

but bitcoin is meant to be trustless, where no one has such amount of power.

if only there was code that no mining collective can go beyond 40%, it would be a trustless network again

[bryant.coleman]

Is there any evidence for GHash double spending the coins so far? Only a few days ago they issued a press release, denying any plans to do so. As the biggest mining pool, GHash has done a lot to the Bitcoin sector. People need to remember that before indulging in death threats and name calling.

[franky1]

Is there any evidence for GHash double spending the coins so far? Only a few days ago they issued a press release, denying any plans to do so. As the biggest mining pool, GHash has done a lot to the Bitcoin sector. People need to remember that before indulging in death threats and name calling.

+1
i have personally never done any death threating, as i think that GHASH has too much common sense to shoot thmselves in the foot. the point that still has to be made is that there is no protocol code to make bitcoin a truly trust less network.. right now people have to trust that GHASH wont be dumb

[S4VV4S]

I disagree. I think people are making a problem where there isnt one.

thats because you "trust" ghash wont abuse the power they now have.

but bitcoin is meant to be trustless, where no one has such amount of power.

if only there was code that no mining collective can go beyond 40% 15%, it would be a trustless network again

FTFY 

[bryant.coleman]

+1
i have personally never done any death threating, as i think that GHASH has too much common sense to shoot thmselves in the foot. the point that still has to be made is that there is no protocol code to make bitcoin a truly trust less network.. right now people have to trust that GHASH wont be dumb

GHash guys built that gigantic mining pool through 3-4 years of hard work. They won't be stupid enough to destroy all of their effort, just for a few million $$$ (if they do double spending, it is the maximum amount that they could gain).

[vpitcher07]

Bitcoin is supposed to be trust-less. In essence, we are currently putting a LOT of trust in ghash for them to do the right thing. They have so far, but that's not the point - we shouldn't even be having this conversation.

[jabo38]

Bitcoin is supposed to be trust-less. In essence, we are currently putting a LOT of trust in ghash for them to do the right thing. They have so far, but that's not the point - we shouldn't even be having this conversation.

+1

[knightcoin]

My thoughts about POW,

If you do an analogy between a network FIB (forwarding information base) and Longest prefix match
bitcoin is building the fasted string match up ever made ..., 

[bryant.coleman]

Bitcoin is supposed to be trust-less. In essence, we are currently putting a LOT of trust in ghash for them to do the right thing. They have so far, but that's not the point - we shouldn't even be having this conversation.

Perhaps that is true. But what can be done about this right now? As far as I know, the Bitcoin foundation does not have the rights to remove 51% attack susceptibility. And don't tell me that we should shift to some crappy altcoin. 

[S4VV4S]

Bitcoin is supposed to be trust-less. In essence, we are currently putting a LOT of trust in ghash for them to do the right thing. They have so far, but that's not the point - we shouldn't even be having this conversation.

Perhaps that is true. But what can be done about this right now? As far as I know, the Bitcoin foundation does not have the rights to remove 51% attack susceptibility. And don't tell me that we should shift to some crappy altcoin. 

And the biggest problem is that we can't change the protocol otherwise BTC becomes an alt 

[fryarminer]

I think I've commented way too much on this and I don't want to be obsessed about it. This will be my final post on this topic.
In my view, Ghash is ACTIVELY attacking bitcoin by allowing their hash rate to get that high, even if it is not over 51%.
They are causing btc to lose value, and people to lose confidence in btc.
Who cares about whether they will attack or not - they already are.

Solution?
Even if they were to make two separate pools, one for their hosted cloud hashing and one for those who wish to join their pool, that would psychologically do something positive by making the pie chart not look so bad. That is an easy solution, even if it is merely psychological.

Otherwise I cannot fathom why people who have enough hash rate to go solo, join an already large pool like Ghash. Eligius is free too, why not join them? Or p2pool? Or better yet, why not go solo?

And beyond that, people as a general rule should not be mining on the biggest pool. If you follow that rule, no pool will be extraordinarily larger than any other.

And for all those who want to not bother doing anything about it, sure, let's talk about someone changing the code. That will never happen.

K, I'm done. Gonna find another topic to obsess about now!

[S4VV4S]

If a large mining operation does something bad, there will be a temporary disruption until the rest of the honest network decides to ignore them.

I don't understand why there is such an uproar about this... It's not like the rest of the network is just going to shrug and let a malicious entity continue to wreak havoc unchecked.

If the rest of the network has less hashrate than the dishonest network then they can't do anything about it other than be observers.

[sickpig]

If a large mining operation does something bad, there will be a temporary disruption until the rest of the honest network decides to ignore them.

I don't understand why there is such an uproar about this... It's not like the rest of the network is just going to shrug and let a malicious entity continue to wreak havoc unchecked.

If the rest of the network has less hashrate than the dishonest network then they can't do anything about it other than be observers.

Really? Care to elaborate a bit your reasoning?

[S4VV4S]

If a large mining operation does something bad, there will be a temporary disruption until the rest of the honest network decides to ignore them.

I don't understand why there is such an uproar about this... It's not like the rest of the network is just going to shrug and let a malicious entity continue to wreak havoc unchecked.

If the rest of the network has less hashrate than the dishonest network then they can't do anything about it other than be observers.

Really? Care to elaborate a bit your reasoning?

Sure!

Let's say we have another 51% gain from GHash, that means all you can do is watch as they find blocks.
Bad case scenario they perform a 51% attack.

Plain simple protocol rules really