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Author Topic: Ideas to minimize concerns and become a trusted member of the bitcoin community?  (Read 1731 times)
triplehelix
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February 26, 2012, 03:55:25 PM
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so i'm very new to the bitcoin community, and have an idea for a business venture that will require trust from people interested in getting involved.

with bitcoins irreversible nature, i'm relatively comfortable with my part, but short of posting a copy of my drivers license on the net (if i was single i probably would just do that, but with a wife and two young kids, i'm not super excited about that idea) is there any way to acknowledge and address valid trust issues of potential "customers"?  i understand bitcoiners have been burned before, and i'd like to put those concerns aside right out of the gate.

i have no problem providing relevant ID and documentation to a few already trusted members, but that would seem to limit the potential audience.

this week i'll start the process of becoming verified on mtgox, then will get myself to the "trusted" account status.  can this information be shared, an if so, does it hold value amongst the community?

any ideas are very welcome.
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Stephen Gornick
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February 26, 2012, 06:44:51 PM
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start the process of becoming verified on mtgox, then will get myself to the "trusted" account status.  can this information be shared

When Mt. Gox verifies a customer's identity (e.g., Level 1 - Verified, Level 2 - Trusted) it is for Mt. Gox's own internal AML compliance:
 - https://support.mtgox.com/entries/20920158-aml-policies

They do not share this information.

You may want to look at the #bitcoin-otc marketplace's Web of Trust (WoT).  While it does not involve verification against state issued documents, it does offer verfication that the party you are trading with truly is the party that has acquired the history trust shown:
 - http://bitcoin-otc.com/trust.php

 - http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#bitcoin-otc-foyer

triplehelix
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February 26, 2012, 07:31:57 PM
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start the process of becoming verified on mtgox, then will get myself to the "trusted" account status.  can this information be shared

When Mt. Gox verifies a customer's identity (e.g., Level 1 - Verified, Level 2 - Trusted) it is for Mt. Gox's own internal AML compliance:
 - https://support.mtgox.com/entries/20920158-aml-policies

They do not share this information.

You may want to look at the #bitcoin-otc marketplace's Web of Trust (WoT).  While it does not involve verification against state issued documents, it does offer verfication that the party you are trading with truly is the party that has acquired the history trust shown:
 - http://bitcoin-otc.com/trust.php

 - http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#bitcoin-otc-foyer

thanks for the reply.

i've come across mention of the OTC market and the web of trust.  basically i'd have to start trading just for the sake of building a reputation, not the end of the world i suppose.  what depth of reputation would you say would make people comfortable? 

also,any ideas how i would go about proving i am the person on the WoT that i claim i am satisfactorily?
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February 26, 2012, 09:09:37 PM
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It's all explained here http://wiki.bitcoin-otc.com/wiki/GPG_authentication
Or just register a company and build your own site
triplehelix
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February 26, 2012, 09:12:48 PM
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It's all explained here http://wiki.bitcoin-otc.com/wiki/GPG_authentication
Or just register a company and build your own site


thanks for the link.  i thought about registering a company.  i'm not incredibly familiar with the ramifications.  does that offer safety to potential customers?
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February 26, 2012, 09:16:11 PM
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It's all explained here http://wiki.bitcoin-otc.com/wiki/GPG_authentication
Or just register a company and build your own site


thanks for the link.  i thought about registering a company.  i'm not incredibly familiar with the ramifications.  does that offer safety to potential customers?

If your planning on doing high volume trading or transactions, forming an LLC will not only give you some trust here, but also protectional against liability.

Depending on the state, you can get a lawyer to do it relatively cheap. Its not difficult to do it yourself and its significantly cheaper. Stay away from those legalzoon and bizfile companies as they charge a decent premium for basically nothing. A local lawyer who you can walk over to if you have any questions and him being cheaper is the best value.

I know in NY State, it only costs me ~$300 to open my first LLC in state/city fees, my accountant did it for free for me, but I can't imagine him charging a commission more then $50-$100

-Charlie

Bitcoin pioneer. An apostle of Satoshi Nakamoto. A crusader for a new, better, tech-driven society. A dreamer.

More about me: http://CharlieShrem.com
triplehelix
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February 26, 2012, 09:41:25 PM
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If your planning on doing high volume trading or transactions, forming an LLC will not only give you some trust here, but also protectional against liability.

Depending on the state, you can get a lawyer to do it relatively cheap. Its not difficult to do it yourself and its significantly cheaper. Stay away from those legalzoon and bizfile companies as they charge a decent premium for basically nothing. A local lawyer who you can walk over to if you have any questions and him being cheaper is the best value.

I know in NY State, it only costs me ~$300 to open my first LLC in state/city fees, my accountant did it for free for me, but I can't imagine him charging a commission more then $50-$100

-Charlie

cool, i'll definitely make some calls next week.  are there any specifics you need to state about the nature of the LLC, its operations or intent?

it seems bitcoin hasn't been classified by the government, but if my idea involved paying interest in bitcoins, on bitcoins deposited, do you know if i would fall under any financial regulations, or is BTC still novel enough that i don't need to worry about it at this time?
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Charlie 'Van Bitcoin' Shrem


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February 26, 2012, 10:07:09 PM
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If your planning on doing high volume trading or transactions, forming an LLC will not only give you some trust here, but also protectional against liability.

Depending on the state, you can get a lawyer to do it relatively cheap. Its not difficult to do it yourself and its significantly cheaper. Stay away from those legalzoon and bizfile companies as they charge a decent premium for basically nothing. A local lawyer who you can walk over to if you have any questions and him being cheaper is the best value.

I know in NY State, it only costs me ~$300 to open my first LLC in state/city fees, my accountant did it for free for me, but I can't imagine him charging a commission more then $50-$100

-Charlie
it seems bitcoin hasn't been classified by the government, but if my idea involved paying interest in bitcoins, on bitcoins deposited, do you know if i would fall under any financial regulations,

Yes, yes and VERY yes.

Consult with your lawyer but financial licenses are expensive and hard to obtain in the US. If your serious, get a corporation and bank account in a country with lax banking laws and financial regulations like Hong Kong, Malta...


Bitcoin pioneer. An apostle of Satoshi Nakamoto. A crusader for a new, better, tech-driven society. A dreamer.

More about me: http://CharlieShrem.com
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February 26, 2012, 10:42:39 PM
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what depth of reputation would you say would make people comfortable? 

That really depends on the level of trust required, size of the transaction, longevity of the trust history, etc.  If you are offering MoneyPak to buy bitcoins, for instance, you probably would find a willing trader even with no history.  If on the other hand you are trying to buy a few hundred dollars worth of bitcoins with PayPal you'll need probably a handful of successful, smaller PayPal purchases extending over several weeks or longer before you'll find a trader willing to do that deal.

If you are selling, then the use of an escrow nearly eliminates any reputation requirement.  Especially if the escrow does dispute arbitration -- like:
 - http://www.BTCrow.com

also,any ideas how i would go about proving i am the person on the WoT that i claim i am satisfactorily?

Well, I suppose one way would be to meet someone else in the -otc WoT who would verify your identity in-person and then mention that verification in that person's rating for you.  Some people on the -otc will not want to link their -otc WoT profile with their real-world identity, so the -otc WoT might not be the best method for what you are describing.

There are some commercial services that will help with identity verification, if that's more what you are looking for.

triplehelix
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February 26, 2012, 10:43:23 PM
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Yes, yes and VERY yes.

Consult with your lawyer but financial licenses are expensive and hard to obtain in the US. If your serious, get a corporation and bank account in a country with lax banking laws and financial regulations like Hong Kong, Malta...



seems like i would need even more ways to estiblish myself as a trusted entity as offshore orginizations are viewed very skeptically.  i'll talk to a lawyer and see what he says.  many thanks.
triplehelix
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February 26, 2012, 10:51:52 PM
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what depth of reputation would you say would make people comfortable? 

That really depends on the level of trust required, size of the transaction, longevity of the trust history, etc.  If you are offering MoneyPak to buy bitcoins, for instance, you probably would find a willing trader even with no history.  If on the other hand you are trying to buy a few hundred dollars worth of bitcoins with PayPal you'll need probably a handful of successful, smaller PayPal purchases extending over several weeks or longer before you'll find a trader willing to do that deal.

If you are selling, then the use of an escrow nearly eliminates any reputation requirement.  Especially if the escrow does dispute arbitration -- like:
 - http://www.BTCrow.com

also,any ideas how i would go about proving i am the person on the WoT that i claim i am satisfactorily?

Well, I suppose one way would be to meet someone else in the -otc WoT who would verify your identity in-person and then mention that verification in that person's rating for you.  Some people on the -otc will not want to link their -otc WoT profile with their real-world identity, so the -otc WoT might not be the best method for what you are describing.

There are some commercial services that will help with identity verification, if that's more what you are looking for.

i'm just concerned with revealing to much about the idea right now, but it would involve tens of thousands of dollars at current exchange rates over roughly a recurring 6 month period.

as for the id verification, i want to find the best balance between people feeling safe and secure having me hold those total sums, and protecting my family from the wack-a-doos you inevitably find online.
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