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Author Topic: new and concerns  (Read 780 times)
kelsey
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February 27, 2012, 09:51:05 AM
 #1

I am new to bitcoin, full time market trader, was excited when I recently learnt about bitcoin (and thought of the potential), however experimenting with it the last few weeks seems many many problems which severely restrict it ever taken off to its potential;

a) huge barriers to newbies entering (nearly gave up myself several times), from software issues through to finding a way to actually acquire bitcoins.

b) many of the ideas that initially make bitcoin attractive, are not true...eg fees? Whats with that? I'm getting them every frigin transfer even to myself (and oddly rather random)?
and no central authority....real hmmm sure? on several fronts its becoming as if there is..ie exchange mtgox? ad the core group of developers (99.9% of users just tag along).

so kinda lost if it heads this way what purpose it has at all?



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cpt_howdy
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February 27, 2012, 10:18:25 AM
 #2

I am new to bitcoin, full time market trader, was excited when I recently learnt about bitcoin (and thought of the potential), however experimenting with it the last few weeks seems many many problems which severely restrict it ever taken off to its potential;

a) huge barriers to newbies entering (nearly gave up myself several times), from software issues through to finding a way to actually acquire bitcoins.

b) many of the ideas that initially make bitcoin attractive, are not true...eg fees? Whats with that? I'm getting them every frigin transfer even to myself (and oddly rather random)?
and no central authority....real hmmm sure? on several fronts its becoming as if there is..ie exchange mtgox? ad the core group of developers (99.9% of users just tag along).

so kinda lost if it heads this way what purpose it has at all?


No arguments with point (a). As for point (b), there are 2 types - 1. Bitcoin internal fees and 2. Currency exchange fees and banking fees.

Type 1 fees are distributed amongst miners - the people who keep the Bitcoin network going - and are essentially optional (not to mentionvery small, at least up till now). I think most users are happy paying these fees, though it would help in the future if the fees were distributed by mining pools among their workers.

Type 2 fees arise from the fact that the current primary use of Bitcoin is as a commodity, rather than a currency. If you are able to use Bitcoin purely as a currency, only type 1 fees apply. I would say it is unlikely that type 2 fees will disappear - though they could shrink -  and I think it would be unreasonable to expect them to do so. I can't think of any example of a commodity that is exchanged without fees for the broker.
JaxXxaJ
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May 09, 2012, 04:08:43 AM
 #3

Do not give up. its gonna be a long process. The idea of bitcoin has been around for yrs. The first conception of it came about in 2007. I came across a book called Discipline by Paco Ahlgren. This book contains many of the concept that we are dealign with today in our society, especially regarding bitcoin. I highly recommend the read. It might ease your mind about what's to come in the future.
LOLdidntwork
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May 09, 2012, 04:22:00 AM
 #4

The barriers to n00bs buying Bitcoin are not as bad as the barriers to getting into this forum.
the joint
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May 09, 2012, 04:32:42 AM
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The barriers to n00bs buying Bitcoin are not as bad as the barriers to getting into this forum.


I've read two of your posts now.

My advice would be not to "stick out"  if you're a newb (e.g. by complaining about newbie restrictions).

Most often, those are the types that rush straight to the lending or marketplace sections and scam people.

Patience, grasshopper, and welcome.

the joint
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May 09, 2012, 04:47:25 AM
 #6

I am new to bitcoin, full time market trader, was excited when I recently learnt about bitcoin (and thought of the potential), however experimenting with it the last few weeks seems many many problems which severely restrict it ever taken off to its potential;

a) huge barriers to newbies entering (nearly gave up myself several times), from software issues through to finding a way to actually acquire bitcoins.

b) many of the ideas that initially make bitcoin attractive, are not true...eg fees? Whats with that? I'm getting them every frigin transfer even to myself (and oddly rather random)?
and no central authority....real hmmm sure? on several fronts its becoming as if there is..ie exchange mtgox? ad the core group of developers (99.9% of users just tag along).

so kinda lost if it heads this way what purpose it has at all?





Kelsey,

I empathize with you completely.  I got in back in June 2011 and I spent 6-10 hours trying to figure out how to get my first Bitcoins and start mining them.

The nice thing is that once you have them, the rest is essentially a piece of cake.  The main reason that Bitcoins are so hard to acquire is because the payment methods that people typically would like to use to get them (e.g. paypal) have been exploited over and over to scam the seller.  Nobody wants to sell Bitcoins for PayPal because the buyers could always claim they didn't receive their BTC and perform a reversal of the payment.  This actually highlights some of the problems with traditional payment methods -- unfortunately, it makes it appear as though Bitcoin is causing all the hassle.

Regarding centralization, it does appear that way, but the type of centralization that Mt. Gox performs is (unfortunately) required at the moment.  Can you think of some other way to transition from fiat currency to Bitcoins without there being a middle-man?  How would you determine the purchasing power of each Bitcoin?  While it's unfortunate that they hold such a large market share, they still don't have control over the Bitcoin protocol itself.  If you keep your Bitcoins nice and safe in your wallet, Mt. Gox can't do a damn thing to touch them.  By the way, I've never traded on Mt. Gox in the 11 months I've been doing this and I've done extremely well.

Realistically, though, tangible cash is going to be phased out sooner or later and it will be replaced by a digital version.  There have been many other attempts (Beenz, Flooz, Linden Dollars, WOW money, Ithica HOURS, the OCCCU, etc.), and while some of these have seen some success (i.e. Linden Dollars and WOW money), none of them really represent a form of digital cash, and all of them have been centralized in some way or another. 

It's possible that something superior to Bitcoin will come around, but if it does, it will likely only expand upon its characteristics and not replace them.  I can't think of any other form of payment where I can be talking with someone at 2:00 AM and receive money from them at 2:01 AM.  I'm in control of my Bitcoins, and I'm entirely responsible for them.  Nobody can take them away from me.  I like that.

And really...the fees are so tiny (usually < $.01) that it's essentially insignificant at the moment.

David_Benz
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you got hacked bitch!


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May 09, 2012, 04:52:32 AM
 #7

takes a little time ... but you will get it

it is super fun man ... i learned fast.

I am the Bitcoinica Hacker.
the joint
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May 09, 2012, 04:53:57 AM
 #8

takes a little time ... but you will get it

it is super fun man ... i learned fast.

Yeah, there's a steep learning curve for like...a week.

After that you feel like you're from the future  Grin

David_Benz
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you got hacked bitch!


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May 09, 2012, 04:54:21 AM
 #9

takes a little time ... but you will get it

it is super fun man ... i learned fast.

Yeah, there's a steep learning curve for like...a week.

After that you feel like you're from the future  Grin

Seriously lol this is the most fun new job ever for me.

I am the Bitcoinica Hacker.
rooflez
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May 09, 2012, 05:20:07 AM
 #10

Learning curve for me is pretty crazy.

I'm probably only gonna use bitcoin as an online currency for me (to buy stuff online anonymously etc) rather than actually mining them.
the joint
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May 09, 2012, 05:24:09 AM
 #11

Learning curve for me is pretty crazy.

I'm probably only gonna use bitcoin as an online currency for me (to buy stuff online anonymously etc) rather than actually mining them.

That's perfect!  Mining is extremely difficult for those without a lot of prior computer tech know-how.  Mining contributes to network security, but what you're doing is helping Bitcoin liquidity Smiley

rooflez
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May 09, 2012, 05:28:00 AM
 #12

I'm actually a very technologically-adapt person, I've built computers and written software and stuff. I'd just rather not go through all the trouble of mining and considering I own an nVidia graphics card i dont find it truly beneficial to go through all the work for minimal return.

I support bitcoin though so i may as well do my best to keep it up and running  Smiley
the joint
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May 09, 2012, 05:30:23 AM
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I'm actually a very technologically-adapt person, I've built computers and written software and stuff. I'd just rather not go through all the trouble of mining and considering I own an nVidia graphics card i dont find it truly beneficial to go through all the work for minimal return.

I support bitcoin though so i may as well do my best to keep it up and running  Smiley

Yeah, screw nVidia.  I don't blame ya one bit Smiley

David_Benz
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you got hacked bitch!


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May 09, 2012, 06:30:39 AM
 #14

I'm actually a very technologically-adapt person, I've built computers and written software and stuff. I'd just rather not go through all the trouble of mining and considering I own an nVidia graphics card i dont find it truly beneficial to go through all the work for minimal return.

I support bitcoin though so i may as well do my best to keep it up and running  Smiley

Yeah, screw nVidia.  I don't blame ya one bit Smiley

Bigger you go ... the better return you get tho.  You aren't gonna get much back with one video card lol

I am the Bitcoinica Hacker.
the joint
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May 09, 2012, 07:12:09 AM
 #15

I'm actually a very technologically-adapt person, I've built computers and written software and stuff. I'd just rather not go through all the trouble of mining and considering I own an nVidia graphics card i dont find it truly beneficial to go through all the work for minimal return.

I support bitcoin though so i may as well do my best to keep it up and running  Smiley

Yeah, screw nVidia.  I don't blame ya one bit Smiley

Bigger you go ... the better return you get tho.  You aren't gonna get much back with one video card lol


Also true.  I mined during my first week with a 550-ti pulling 40 m/hash.  Bought a 6970 in a week (had to game too) and then built two rigs in the next 6 months.

And it's fun monitoring them and adjusting my fans and voltages like I'm some kind of engineer.

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