Why Do You Invest?

[ABitInterested]

Thats bullshit banks will not lend, if you have a property free and clear
Do hard money
They will do loans for any investor with 0 down, yes its is real. I have seen someone use them and flip 10 houses.

This is not always true in the current market. No comment on the rest of your post but I have a friend that owns rent property and flips houses in a similar manner. He has tons of credit, but he cannot buy a house. He owns dozens of vehicles, large equipment that cost $50,000 to $120,000, lines of credit for other things etc. He could go buy a fleet of vehicles tonight with only his signature but he cannot buy a house without a huge (30 to 50%) down payment. This is true of rental properties, flip properties and even a home for himself. He recently put 50% down to finance a property for himself, something that even broke idiots seem to be able to do with no problem.

Now I have no idea what exactly they are looking at that makes this next to impossible but he has great credit, makes early payments often but has had this problem for years.

[jonsi]

This is not a good representation of the state of the security.

... bla bla ...

Good, bad... it is the only representation.

Germican, same question (just give a straight answer, we are sick of theory, don't be another preacher with nothing to say in the end): What security worth investing in right now at curent price?

[RiverBoatBTC]

Thats bullshit banks will not lend, if you have a property free and clear
Do hard money
They will do loans for any investor with 0 down, yes its is real. I have seen someone use them and flip 10 houses.

This is not always true in the current market. No comment on the rest of your post but I have a friend that owns rent property and flips houses in a similar manner. He has tons of credit, but he cannot buy a house. He owns dozens of vehicles, large equipment that cost $50,000 to $120,000, lines of credit for other things etc. He could go buy a fleet of vehicles tonight with only his signature but he cannot buy a house without a huge (30 to 50%) down payment. This is true of rental properties, flip properties and even a home for himself. He recently put 50% down to finance a property for himself, something that even broke idiots seem to be able to do with no problem.

Now I have no idea what exactly they are looking at that makes this next to impossible but he has great credit, makes early payments often but has had this problem for years.

Welcome to real estate with RiverboatBTC, this course is free but if you would like more come to my seminar at the price of 5999  . This is a joke its what all the real estate guru's say lol

Your buddy is looking in the wrong places. My buddy took 5k from his parents and bought his first rehab project. He put 0 down and paid closing cost only. I seen someone just sign a house over to him cause they could not make the payments. They moved out he got them out of default, rehabbed the house and sold it. He only paid for the rehab.

These are the type of things inexperienced investors do not understand, or know about. Why do I say this, check this out.

I have 100k to put into rehabbing a house.
House cost 50K rehab 50k House is worth 150k. Great I made 50k.
or
I take 100k get a hard money loans for 4 properties paying 10-20% down on each one and now I made 40K X 4. Its only 40k due to the fees of the hard money loans.
or
I find home owners going into foreclosure offer to let them out from under the house, they just have to hand over the keys. You pay to catch up the note up to date. Now you have a rental or a rehab. Free equity.

All these people lend all day everyday most not even on credit and some require 0 down.

Tell him for hard money flips
http://www.dohardmoney.com/loans/residential-rehab
To refinance a property
http://www.dohardmoney.com/loans/refinance

100% approved,  you pay 600 for a 3 appraisers to come check your property out. They tell you what your property is worth and will lend you up to 70% of its market value. Credit does not matter they lend on the value of the property.

HML Loan Type   Both
Lending Area   37 States
Contact   Jennifer Watkins
Address   2691 S. Decker Lake Lane
City, State, Zip   West Valley City, Utah, 84119
Phone   888-852-1522
Fax   801-456-3284
Web Site   www.wdbfunding.com
Email   loans@wdbfunding.com

HML Loan Type   Residential
Lending Area   AL, CA, CO, CT, DC,DE, FL, GA, IL, IN, KY, LA, MA, MD,ME,MI, MN, MO, MS, NH, NJ, NC, NM, NY, OH, OK, PA, RI, SC, TN, TX, UT, VA,WA, WI
Contact   rehabs@brookviewfinancial.com
Address   2321 Whitney Avenue
City, State, Zip   Hamden, Connecticut, 06518
Phone   203-230-8500
Fax   203-248-1771
Web Site   www.brookviewfinancial.com
Email   rehabs@brookviewfinancial.com

HML Loan Type   Both
Lending Area   CT, FL, ME, MA, NC, NH, NJ, NY, PA, RI, VA, VT
Contact   Dan Burke
Address   888 Washington Street
City, State, Zip   Dedham, Massachusetts, 02026
Phone   617-971-9700
Fax   617-983-3541
Web Site   www.endeavor.com
Email   danburke@endeavor.com

HML Loan Type   Both
Lending Area    Nationwide
Contact   Kim Riddle
Address   11427 Reed Hartman Hwy
City, State, Zip   Cincinnati, Ohio, 45241
Fax   877-744-3922
Web Site   www.globalequityalliance.com
Email   pm@geafund.com

HML Loan Type   Both
Lending Area   MD, DC, VA, CA, DE, NJ, NY, OH, PA, TX, FL
Contact   Jason Balin
Address   9017 Red Branch Rd. Suite H
City, State, Zip   Columbia, Maryland, 21045
Phone   443-539-8282
Fax   866-859-6019
Web Site   hardmoneybankers.com/reiclub
Email   jason@hardmoneybankers.com

HML Loan Type   Both
Lending Area   31 States
Contact   Steve Porter
Address   4725 Holladay Boulevard, Suite 230
City, State, Zip   Salt Lake City, Utah, 84117
Phone   801-878-7655
Fax   801-278-7020
Web Site   www.hardmoneyrg.com
Email   info@hardmoneyrg.com

   Lima One Capital   
HML Loan Type   Residential
Lending Area   AL, DC, FL, GA, MD, NC, OH, PA, SC & VA
Contact   John S. Warren
Address   5 Concourse Parkway Suite 3000
City, State, Zip   Atlanta, Georgia, 30328
Phone   (404) 908-0080
Fax   (404) 908-0090
Web Site   www.LimaOneCapital.com
Email   info@limaonecapital.com

I could go on, and on and on.

[Germican]

This is not a good representation of the state of the security.

... bla bla ...

Good, bad... it is the only representation.

Germican, same question (just give a straight answer, we are sick of theory, don't be another preacher with nothing to say in the end): What security worth investing in right now at curent price?

Only one I think is Seedcoin SFI. The three bigger start up is btc.sx which is the first leveraged trading platform and just released multiple languages to have an international appeal plus the site is pretty easy to use. Mexbt is going into a great market focused on remittances from the USA to Mexico which is a great use of btc. Hive's waggle function allows you to pay them without scanning a code and just got released with litecoin added and from their posts here looks like dogecoin soon.

All of those founders seem involved in the advancement of btc through conferences and social media. I do have minor doubts about Mexbt as I haven't seen their platform yet but I'm willing to accept that risk. Plus the head of the fund Eddy is very involved with the fund and doing conferences and talks online.

The biggest reason I think they will do well is networking is a huge part of doing well as a business. If you have someone who can connect you with who you need on good terms you can grow rather well. Plus this was a seed fund all money raised besides the admin fee was invested so 0.00025 gets you approx 0.00075 worth of investments.

Just don't expect a dividend right away. Business is slow early on and the thought dividends have to be paid monthly is non existent outside of btc securities.

That's my opinion and Im invested in them. But i also have been burned by neobee, nxxs , and scharmbeck. So I've been wrong before. However my intent is not to push any specific stock rather point out that NotLambChop is making claims that misconstrued the data and provided no validation of his claims. I'm no economist but I have a strong back ground in medical studies where stats can say what ever you want them to if you say it the right way.

[jonsi]

This is not a good representation of the state of the security.

... bla bla ...

Good, bad... it is the only representation.

Germican, same question (just give a straight answer, we are sick of theory, don't be another preacher with nothing to say in the end): What security worth investing in right now at curent price?

Only one I think is Seedcoin SFI. The three bigger start up is btc.sx which is the first leveraged trading platform and just released multiple languages to have an international appeal plus the site is pretty easy to use. Mexbt is going into a great market focused on remittances from the USA to Mexico which is a great use of btc. Hive's waggle function allows you to pay them without scanning a code and just got released with litecoin added and from their posts here looks like dogecoin soon.

All of those founders seem involved in the advancement of btc through conferences and social media. I do have minor doubts about Mexbt as I haven't seen their platform yet but I'm willing to accept that risk. Plus the head of the fund Eddy is very involved with the fund and doing conferences and talks online.

The biggest reason I think they will do well is networking is a huge part of doing well as a business. If you have someone who can connect you with who you need on good terms you can grow rather well. Plus this was a seed fund all money raised besides the admin fee was invested so 0.00025 gets you approx 0.00075 worth of investments.

Just don't expect a dividend right away. Business is slow early on and the thought dividends have to be paid monthly is non existent outside of btc securities.

That's my opinion and Im invested in them. But i also have been burned by neobee, nxxs , and scharmbeck. So I've been wrong before. However my intent is not to push any specific stock rather point out that NotLambChop is making claims that misconstrued the data and provided no validation of his claims. I'm no economist but I have a strong back ground in medical studies where stats can say what ever you want them to if you say it the right way.

Thank you for the straight answer. I wish you the best of luck on all your investments.

(also quoted for posterity)

-edit-
 Bitfinex is also a leveraged trading platform.
-edit-

[NotLambchop]

...I'm no economist

Boy howdy!

but I have a strong back ground background in medical studies...

Participating in drug studies doesn't count.

[NotLambchop]

...
Only one I think is Seedcoin SFI...
That's my opinion and Im invested in them...

...
(also quoted for posterity)
...

No need for posterity.  Here's how his "investment" has fared thus far:

Image courtesy of Havelock.

[Germican]

...I'm no economist

Boy howdy!

but I have a strong back ground background in medical studies...

Participating in drug studies doesn't count.

Sorry that formal doctoral level statistics education and daily use of them for a living doesn't apply. As well I'm not the one making a claim off interpretation of stats but I am pointing out the large flaws in your claims.

I'm actually pleased with the drop as I've been able to double my holdings for cheap. Creating more FUD will help my fill my buy orders on Havelock.

[PapaPanda]

This is why I "invest"

http://pixiuum.com/media/files/2014/06/26/pv.png

That's my actual pnl, all securities valued at bid price, all on Havelock.

Though, I'll admit, there's nothing special about Havelock.  I can do this pretty much anywhere in BTC land as long as the exchange provides a trading API.

[NotLambchop]

^
OHAI, other Newfriend!  Welcome 2 Bitcointalk 2U2!

The chart you have posted is 100% bullshit, since there are no securities, singularly or in any combination, that have preformed that well on Havelock.

Protip:  Don't suck so hard at lying.  Get good

[PapaPanda]

say whatever you want, I'm the one with 2 more BTC than when I started.   Though I did this in GLBSE as well...

Smart investors know when to buy and sell.  You are assuming buy and hold, which is the dumbest thing you can do in the current situation.

PM me if you want the complete trading history.

[Germican]

Also I think one of the biggest reasons Havelock's listings usually drop after Ipo which did not happen as much on cryptostocks was due to the ipo not allowing an open market until the ipo ends. Cryptostocks had more scammers but for awhile allowed those who bought ipo and can then unload it during the ipo if they chose too. Then cryptostocks instituted the ipo flag and things went to shit. Now once an ipo happens on Havelock say like SFI which was in ipo over a month. Once that month ended some that didn't realize they were required to hold the stock for that long decided to sell as soon as the ipo ended. This causes the stock to instantly drop once the ipo ends.

I have hated ipo flags but I've also learned to just wait till after the ipo people will liquidate cheaper than ipo prices so why pay the full amount.

[ask_me_about_my_bits]

I like how dividends for certain stocks are cut off to show a narrative that no company has issued any dividends.

For example:

PETA-MINE CryptX (PETA):
Issue price:     ฿0.05000 first tranche
Issue price:     ฿0.09500 second tranche
Issue price:     ฿0.09750 third tranche
Current Price:  ฿0.0479
Highest bid:     ฿0.0443
Dividends paid: ฿0.0
Profit:             Lol.

Should instead read:

PETA-MINE CryptX (PETA):
Issue price:     ฿0.0500 first tranche
Issue price:     ฿0.0950 second tranche
Issue price:     ฿0.0975 third tranche
Current Price:  ฿0.0479
Highest bid:     ฿0.0443
Dividends paid: ฿0.0143/Share
Dividends paid since 2nd/3rd issuance: ฿0.0054

Return on 1st Issuance: ฿0.0143, or 28.7% in 6 months and 2 weeks (projected out to 51.2% annually)
Return on 2nd and 3rd issuance: ฿0.0055 , or 5.8% in 1 month (projected out to approximately 69.8% annually)

But hey, if you want to use dishonest data, I guess that's your choice. I am surprised no one has called him out on it yet. Sure, there are a lot of questionable stocks, but I would note that a lot of stocks during phases like the tech boom in '99/00, you won't find a ton of great stocks, but when you do, they can be pretty lucrative.

Just corrected.  Not sure why you're getting so bothered about it.  Not like you turned a profit or anything

As far as "a lot of questionable stocks":  Technically, you're right. ALL OF THEM HAVE LOST MONEY, and "all" could be seen as "a lot," I suppose.

*If you spot any more errors, please point them out and I'll correct them. 

฿0.0479 + ฿0.0143/Share > ฿0.0500 first tranche

  That is not a loss

[jayc89]

There are good investments out there, you just need to know where to look. I haven't seen anything on Havelock which has interested me though.

[NotLambchop]

...
฿0.0479 + ฿0.0143/Share > ฿0.0500 first tranche

  That is not a loss

There was a second and a third tranche, both over .09, which is > .0479+0143

Anyhow, forget ฿0.0479, dat but a dream nao.  The current price is ฿0.0400
With no buy support worth mentioning 'til ฿0.02112346

[PapaPanda]

This is why I "invest"

http://pixiuum.com/media/files/2014/06/26/pv.png

That's my actual pnl, all securities valued at bid price, all on Havelock.

Though, I'll admit, there's nothing special about Havelock.  I can do this pretty much anywhere in BTC land as long as the exchange provides a trading API.

To elaborate a bit, i run an automated market making algorithm on various exchanges, currently mostly on Havelock.  The bid-offer on BTC securities is large enough, and the trading fees low enough, that such algos are usually profitable without insane amounts of leverage.  The algo on average makes about 100 trades a day.

It's not all rosy though.  The particular strategy has a few problems:

• Vulnerable to sudden downward shocks in price.  For example, the crash in ASICMINER assets contributed to the drop in portfolio value at the end of May.
• Critically depends on how wide the bid-offer is compared to trading fees.  In the last two months on Havelock, the algo paid out 1.922 BTC in fees; if the fees were just a few tenth of a percent higher, this strategy will not work.  In this respect, running this strat on GLBSE was much more profitable: the algo is always a liquidity provider, and on GLBSE, only the liquidity taker paid the fees.
• Exchange operator risk: the strat is dependent on the proper functioning of the exchange.  E.g., I lost about 70% of my total profit on GLBSE when that exchange shut down.
• The strat has a relatively small capacity.  This is largely dependent on the volume on the exchanges.  The algo already accounts for a significant fraction of all trades on Havelock (>20% of non-IPO volume), so there's not much upside to its run rate unless the volume goes up significantly.

Point is, there are ways to make money on BTC securities.  Right now, there is a good balance of market inefficiencies (read: profit potential) and volume that is not available in most other places (this strat does not work well in the BTC/USD market, for example). 

[Germican]

I also think you should add cryptostocks listings as there are several profitable investments in there. Cryptsy, TRADER, DEBT are just some of their profitable ones.

[NotLambchop]

...
Point is, there are ways to make money on BTC securities...

As I said many times before, there's money to be made TRADING anything, anywhere.  As long as prices fluctuate, anyone buying on the lows and selling on the highs will make money.  By definition.  Anyone contesting this must learn to logic.

Money was made TRADING Labcoin and NEOBEE.  But this thread is not about TRADING.  It's about INVESTING.

If you're a TRADER, the market demographic is ideal for you--it's pretty much greater and greater fools.  Yum!
In this land of the blind, having as much as a white cane makes you king.
Enjoy, but this thread is not about you, it's about those poor souls who think they're "investing."

[Germican]

...
Point is, there are ways to make money on BTC securities...

As I said many times before, there's money to be made TRADING anything, anywhere.  As long as prices fluctuate, anyone buying on the lows and selling on the highs will make money.  By definition.  Anyone contesting this must learn to logic.

Money was made TRADING Labcoin and NEOBEE.  But this thread is not about TRADING.  It's about INVESTING.

If you're a TRADER, the market demographic is ideal for you--it's pretty much greater and greater fools.  Yum!
In this land of the blind, having as much as a white cane makes you king.
Enjoy, but this thread is not about you, it's about those poor souls who think they're "investing."

So cryptsy was a bad investment? IPO at 0.05 btc currently low bid of 0.12 btc with high of over 0.3 btc and has paid 87 btc total out in dividends? That's a bad investment to you?

[PapaPanda]

...
Point is, there are ways to make money on BTC securities...

As I said many times before, there's money to be made TRADING anything, anywhere.  As long as prices fluctuate, anyone buying on the lows and selling on the highs will make money.  By definition.  Anyone contesting this must learn to logic.

Money was made TRADING Labcoin and NEOBEE.  But this thread is not about TRADING.  It's about INVESTING.

If you're a TRADER, the market demographic is ideal for you--it's pretty much greater and greater fools.  Yum!
In this land of the blind, having as much as a white cane makes you king.
Enjoy, but this thread is not about you, it's about those poor souls who think they're "investing."

If you are solely going to stick to the very narrow definition of "investing = buying at the IPO price and holding for ever" then sure.  But that's not the commonly accepted definition.  Investing is a process of continuous decision making dependent on the market conditions at the time.  And if you can't accept that, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.