CoinReturn - Discussion of Current Issues and Possible Future Actions

[SamboNZ]

Please note: This thread is for CoinReturn Shareholders to discuss the current situation and what to do about it.  If you are not a CoinReturn shareholder, please be respectful and refrain from posting unless you have something of useful substance to add which may help the situation.  Polite, constructive arguments, opinions and discussions are welcome, trolling, abuse, baseless accusations, personal attacks and general BS is not, and posts containing such will be deleted.



10 July 2014 Update:
I have confirmation from a PI in Rhode Island that there is no record of 'Tom Mica' in the DMV records and therefore the license is fake.  This proves that CoinReturn was a fake from the beginning and all other theories are wrong.  Therefore I have removed my own invalid theories from this post as not to cloud the issue.

I have a couple of minor leads to follow up on, but I don't hold much hope that they will lead anywhere.  In any case, I'll keep you all posted on how I go.


Cheers,

Sam.

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[youlead514]

Sam, first off I appreciate you taking the time to spell out your thoughts and logic.
At some point I believe most people like myself liquidated our stock at a loss.  Our choice but at this point regardless of if it turned out to be a scam or not we still have the option to Buy And/Or sell at a loss.  So the legal preceding of claiming this is a scam in my mind get sticky until CS actually decides to de-list them. 
I personally applaud you for holding onto the ID information and not releasing it.  Unfortunately that deadline you are setting for yourself is coming up fast.  We could extend it or set it based off when CS puts a trading halt on the account.

[vm_mpn]

Thanks Sambo... Good writeup.

[SamboNZ]

Sam, first off I appreciate you taking the time to spell out your thoughts and logic.
At some point I believe most people like myself liquidated our stock at a loss.  Our choice but at this point regardless of if it turned out to be a scam or not we still have the option to Buy And/Or sell at a loss.  So the legal preceding of claiming this is a scam in my mind get sticky until CS actually decides to de-list them. 
I personally applaud you for holding onto the ID information and not releasing it.  Unfortunately that deadline you are setting for yourself is coming up fast.  We could extend it or set it based off when CS puts a trading halt on the account.

Thanks youlead.  To be clear, the 2 week deadline was for taking further significant action, not necessarily to release the ID information I have.  That is certainly an option down the track, but I think there are a number of possible avenues we could pursue before we get to that point.

[SamboNZ]

Thanks Sambo... Good writeup.

cheers mate, I appreciate the support

[Casco]

Sambo and all colleagues investors,

although I personally believe, that whole CoinReturn is a scam, I appreciate your work here. Please keep us updated in the future about the progress. Hope that all ends well and that at least some of our investment will be repaid.
Secondly, this situation(s) is (are) calling for some action - maybe we should form an Investor Coalition to resolve such plausible fraud cases. What do you think?

Casco

[SamboNZ]

Thanks for your comments Casco.

Yes, I think that we would definitely do better working together to learn about what is happening with CoinReturn.  I have some ideas about how we can do this, but let's see what comes of my first round of inquiries and then we can work out the next step from there.

[MAGsistemas]

Have you thought that maybe these guys are in Brazil for the FIFA World Cup.
They stopped paying dividends the same day that World Cup began.
But, many people have undersold their shares so quickly...
 

[weatherman]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=265079

It seems like they have an alternative email address - maybe see if we can get bitcointalk to hand over the email address?

Also nice write up Sambo , I - like i'm sure many others have - lost many bitcoins to this , I dipped my tow in and liked the water so threw alot more into this stock.

I'm hoping it isn't a scam and something is stopping them communicating for now.

[SamboNZ]

Have you thought that maybe these guys are in Brazil for the FIFA World Cup.
They stopped paying dividends the same day that World Cup began.
But, many people have undersold their shares so quickly...
 

Hahaha, brilliant!   Best reason ever!!

[SamboNZ]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=265079

It seems like they have an alternative email address - maybe see if we can get bitcointalk to hand over the email address?

Also nice write up Sambo , I - like i'm sure many others have - lost many bitcoins to this , I dipped my tow in and liked the water so threw alot more into this stock.

I'm hoping it isn't a scam and something is stopping them communicating for now.

I have tried to get the BCT admins to reveal this kind of information, but they require a police request to do so.  This may come into play later on.

Thanks for the kind words, and I too am hoping this isn't a scam - for everyone's sake!

[SamboNZ]

Ok, I am making progress on the License verification front, but nothing solid to report as yet. 

I am having some trouble getting the domain privacy company to understand the current situation (the keep telling me to contact the domain owner via their form - which I have of course already tried).  However, I am persisting on this front for now.

I have also been checking out some options for engaging a Private Investigator in the area where Tom's driver's license indicates he lives.  I have found another PI who works only 20 min away from Tom's address and charges $80 per hour plus travel.  The first PI lived an hour away and charges $100 ph with a minimum of 4 hours billable.  A third PI has not returned either of the 2 emails I sent to them in the last week.

I am thinking that if the license is legit, we could contract a PI to pay Tom a visit and (gently) try to ascertain what's going on.  I am hoping that a number of shareholders would be willing to chip in and help me pay for this.  I imagine that it might take 2-3hrs for this initial work - so the cost would be $160-240 in total.  If we could get 25 shareholders to put in $10 (~0.017 BTC @ $580/BTC) each, that would cover it.  I would be happy to use some kind of Escrow if that's what everyone wanted.

What does everyone think about that idea?

[RiverBoatBTC]

I think you should just give me his first and last name the state he lives and I will give you a phone number so you do not have to pay 2-400$ for a house call.

[SamboNZ]

I think you should just give me his first and last name the state he lives and I will give you a phone number so you do not have to pay 2-400$ for a house call.

Thanks for the offer, but based on your previous input on this and other matters I'm not sure I can trust you I'm afraid.

[MAGsistemas]

Ok, I am making progress on the License verification front, but nothing solid to report as yet. 

I am having some trouble getting the domain privacy company to understand the current situation (the keep telling me to contact the domain owner via their form - which I have of course already tried).  However, I am persisting on this front for now.

I have also been checking out some options for engaging a Private Investigator in the area where Tom's driver's license indicates he lives.  I have found another PI who works only 20 min away from Tom's address and charges $80 per hour plus travel.  The first PI lived an hour away and charges $100 ph with a minimum of 4 hours billable.  A third PI has not returned either of the 2 emails I sent to them in the last week.

I am thinking that if the license is legit, we could contract a PI to pay Tom a visit and (gently) try to ascertain what's going on.  I am hoping that a number of shareholders would be willing to chip in and help me pay for this.  I imagine that it might take 2-3hrs for this initial work - so the cost would be $160-240 in total.  If we could get 25 shareholders to put in $10 (~0.017 BTC @ $580/BTC) each, that would cover it.  I would be happy to use some kind of Escrow if that's what everyone wanted.

What does everyone think about that idea?

Sorry, but I think if you have his first and last name, and the location where he lives, you do not need money.
Instead of sending a PI to "gently" speak with him, you can send flowers to his home making a simple call to a delivery.
It's cheaper. 
PD: Text for flowers card: "From your shareholders"

[Casco]

Instead of sending a PI to "gently" speak with him, you can send flowers to his home making a simple call to a delivery.
It's cheaper. 
PD: Text for flowers card: "From your shareholders"

Or you can send him a dead fish. With text:"Caveo Cavi Cautum"

[beaknuke]

If you do approach him, make sure u have a video camera recording of anything thing he says.

[SamboNZ]

If you do approach him, make sure u have a video camera recording of anything thing he says.

Yes, I was thinking that would be a good idea.

[RiverBoatBTC]

Check the state laws about recording people, some state allow it with out consent some do not.

[Chef Ramsay]

If you do approach him, make sure u have a video camera recording of anything thing he says.

Under either of the 2 scenarios (scam or SEC trouble) I highly doubt he would say anything in person or on camera if ya caught up w/ him. IMO, if it was SEC trouble then they should just pay the fine and refund us our money and then carry on their private trading outfit amongst themselves. How long do they think they're gonna lay low and avoid penalty if they're already on the radar? I bet this was all well and fine until they either got spooked or notified and then they just stopped the trading and won't resume or pay divs/refunds which would prove their involvement. So, they dipped on us and outside of siccing the authorities on them the show is over.