[BitPool] Mesh networks to bypass ISPs

[cbeast]

Antennas using 802.11n have been able to achieve transmission distances over 300 km unamplified.

Well that is more interesting! If something like this could be used to link cities.

I'm guessing that terrain matters though and this "300km" was line of sight?

feet, not kilometers.

[OnkelPaul]

feet, not kilometers.

Ah, mixed up imperial and metric units - always confusing, how should he know that km and ft are not approximately the same thing?
(actually, connection distances of up to 300km have been reported for Wifi technology: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-range_Wi-Fi)

Onkel Paul

[cbeast]

feet, not kilometers.

Ah, mixed up imperial and metric units - always confusing, how should he know that km and ft are not approximately the same thing?
(actually, connection distances of up to 300km have been reported for Wifi technology: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-range_Wi-Fi)

Onkel Paul

I imagine if you use a large dish antenna you would be able to achieve great distances. So I suppose it is theoretically possible to get 300 km distance.

[Elwar]

Antennas using 802.11n have been able to achieve transmission distances over 300 km unamplified.

Well that is more interesting! If something like this could be used to link cities.

I'm guessing that terrain matters though and this "300km" was line of sight?

feet, not kilometers.

304 km
http://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/1984314/wi-fi-world-record-set-304km
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-range_Wi-Fi

Yes, it has to be line of site.


link first established on 2007-06-16
it appears to be permanent from Monte Amiata (Tuscany) to Monte Limbara (Sardinia)
frequency: 5765 MHz
IEEE 802.11a (Wi-Fi), bandwidth 5 MHz
Radio: Ubiquiti Networks XR5
Wireless routers: MikroTik RouterBOARD with RouterOS, NStreme optimization enabled
Length: 304 km (189 mi).
Antenna is 120 cm with handmade waveguide. 35 dBi estimated

[Bitcoin-hotep]

YES.

This is the answer to Net Neutrality. LANs will pop up all over also.

[cbeast]

Antennas using 802.11n have been able to achieve transmission distances over 300 km unamplified.

Well that is more interesting! If something like this could be used to link cities.

I'm guessing that terrain matters though and this "300km" was line of sight?

feet, not kilometers.

304 km
http://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/1984314/wi-fi-world-record-set-304km
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-range_Wi-Fi

Yes, it has to be line of site.


link first established on 2007-06-16
it appears to be permanent from Monte Amiata (Tuscany) to Monte Limbara (Sardinia)
frequency: 5765 MHz
IEEE 802.11a (Wi-Fi), bandwidth 5 MHz
Radio: Ubiquiti Networks XR5
Wireless routers: MikroTik RouterBOARD with RouterOS, NStreme optimization enabled
Length: 304 km (189 mi).
Antenna is 120 cm with handmade waveguide. 35 dBi estimated

I imagine with a VLA you could get thousands or even millions of miles.

[Bitcoin-hotep]

Is there any known existing mesh network whose goal is to mesh the world, to take control of the internet and put it in the people's hands?

[franky1]

Is there any known existing mesh network whose goal is to mesh the world, to take control of the internet and put it in the people's hands?

yea, they united people together and charge a fee for access, to their local supernode in your state/country so that you dont have to pay 1000 pennies per connection to individuals you just pay a supernode a monthly charge

....  you will find many different states/countries having these supernodes, their names are as folows
bell
BT
vodafone
horizon
t-mobile
teliphonica
.. the list goes on, but they prefer to be called ISP's not supernodes. though they do the same job

unless you can solve the super node problem so that individuals get paid to relay, and have it so that its still fast even passing through 5000+ people.. then the supernode relays(as explained 2 pages back) will just be the same as the established internet connection entities i just listed, greedy and centralized.

[TippingPoint]

Wifi has the advantage of already being available.  Optical communication using inexpensive LEDs and basic optics may be useful in some locations to create a 10 Mbit/s full duplex Ethernet point-to-point link.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RONJA
http://ronja.twibright.com/



Ronja 10M Metropolis
Provides 10Mbps full duplex on a full duplex AUI interface. The distance is 1.4km with 130mm lenses and 900m with 90mm lenses. The transmitter is a 625nm LED diode, output power 17mW and the optics is made from loupes.

[xDan]

https://projectmeshnet.org

May have already been linked, but, has anyone here actually used this? What are the features, limitations, flaws?

It seems mildly interesting but, as far as I read you can't randomly connect to anyone, you have to find somebody willing to "peer" with you... So e.g. somebody passing through a city can't just connect to some Wifi node on that network.

[Bitcoin-hotep]

Is there any known existing mesh network whose goal is to mesh the world, to take control of the internet and put it in the people's hands?

yea, they united people together and charge a fee for access, to their local supernode in your state/country so that you dont have to pay 1000 pennies per connection to individuals you just pay a supernode a monthly charge

....  you will find many different states/countries having these supernodes, their names are as folows
bell
BT
vodafone
horizon
t-mobile
teliphonica
.. the list goes on, but they prefer to be called ISP's not supernodes. though they do the same job

unless you can solve the super node problem so that individuals get paid to relay, and have it so that its still fast even passing through 5000+ people.. then the supernode relays(as explained 2 pages back) will just be the same as the established internet connection entities i just listed, greedy and centralized.

You are missing the point.

It may SEEM like a "company" like this would become greedy and centralized, but I was not talking about companies.
And once the WHOLE WORLD was meshed, no one would have to pay, everyone would just be connected by default and it would kill the big companies.

[franky1]

You are missing the point.

It may SEEM like a "company" like this would become greedy and centralized, but I was not talking about companies.
And once the WHOLE WORLD was meshed, no one would have to pay, everyone would just be connected by default and it would kill the big companies.

so supply me free internet today
oh wait equipment costs money, electricity costs money,

then when scaling it up for supernodes to reach bigger distances telecommunication licences (radio signals) cost money. higher tech to handle multiple users without bottle necking, costs money..

google is only offering free internet in area's not because it costs nothing, but because they make enough profit from other projects to offer free internet.

if everyone on the planet could afford to buy a relay that could handle 5000 people going through it atleast. and be getting enough wealth from other jobs or projects to not charge for the privelidge..

again if EVERYONE ON THE PLANET could do this.. then we are indeed in a fantasy where everything in life is free and that there are no poor people.

(please put the weed away and think about things in reality! why oh why do i have to keep bringing you back to reality.. your stuck in your utopian dreams.. can you atleast admit that, as its the first sign of recovery if you can.)

[Bitcoin-hotep]

It wouldn't have to be the whole planet. If 90% of people were on a free network and 10% of people were paying for internet (because they chose to), that would be better than what we have today. The point is, try to get it everywhere.

And I was just asking if anyone was doing it, I didn't say you should do it, or I should.

[franky1]

It wouldn't have to be the whole planet. If 90% of people were on a free network and 10% of people were paying for internet (because they chose to), that would be better than what we have today. The point is, try to get it everywhere.

And I was just asking if anyone was doing it, I didn't say you should do it, or I should.

you think 90% are above poverty line to just share internet freely?........................................................

[edit 5 minutes later] sorry i just collapsed with laughter

[DannyElfman]

Wifi has the advantage of already being available.  Optical communication using inexpensive LEDs and basic optics may be useful in some locations to create a 10 Mbit/s full duplex Ethernet point-to-point link.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RONJA
http://ronja.twibright.com/



Ronja 10M Metropolis
Provides 10Mbps full duplex on a full duplex AUI interface. The distance is 1.4km with 130mm lenses and 900m with 90mm lenses. The transmitter is a 625nm LED diode, output power 17mW and the optics is made from loupes.

This "wifi hotspot" still needs to be connected to the rest of the internet via traditional means (an ISP)

[franky1]

Wifi has the advantage of already being available.  Optical communication using inexpensive LEDs and basic optics may be useful in some locations to create a 10 Mbit/s full duplex Ethernet point-to-point link.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RONJA
http://ronja.twibright.com/
Ronja 10M Metropolis
Provides 10Mbps full duplex on a full duplex AUI interface. The distance is 1.4km with 130mm lenses and 900m with 90mm lenses. The transmitter is a 625nm LED diode, output power 17mW and the optics is made from loupes.

This "wifi hotspot" still needs to be connected to the rest of the internet via traditional means (an ISP)

yep and the owner that has true internet connection, can work out if he can handle 20 connections. then he can work out 5% of his internet bill+profit. and charge that as a month fee to 20 connections he allows..

after all why would he be forced to pay for the internet and have 20 other people suck his bandwidth..for free

[Bitcoin-hotep]

It wouldn't have to be the whole planet. If 90% of people were on a free network and 10% of people were paying for internet (because they chose to), that would be better than what we have today. The point is, try to get it everywhere.

And I was just asking if anyone was doing it, I didn't say you should do it, or I should.

you think 90% are above poverty line to just share internet freely?........................................................

[edit 5 minutes later] sorry i just collapsed with laughter

OH MY GOD PLEASE GET YOUR HEAD CHECKED

You are the most ignorant (ignoring things said to you) person I have ever met.

I ASKED if anyone had these GOALS. I NEVER said that I was going to do this.

[franky1]

well now we know you have no desire to be involved and lack insightful idea's to help make something like this happen. you can get on with your life.

now lets get back on topic,
to everyone else with interest

its obvious that people wont want to offer their bandwidth and relay equipment for free, as noted a couple pages ago and elswhere.

i think that a starting point would be to get towns wifi covered first. with local relays.. then expand to going town to town and entwining these towns together with long distance technology later on.

so lets concentrate on the local side again as the country-wide internet loss is not an immediate threat, but getting more wi-fi coverage can be a current belefit. and it slowly introduces people to the concept.

so which local (within city limit) idea's do people have that can work

[Elwar]

I think the first step would be to design the software (some open source solutions already available) and factor in paying for it with bitcoins.

Then from there we can ramp up to the hardware.

With hardware requirements we can have an open source hardware platform that people can then start creating themselves and someone can start mass producing similar to mining hardware companies.


One big decision would be the way to charge.

Is it better to charge for time with a set "pipe" of limited bandwidth, or charge for blocks of data usage?

Time
Pros:
Most people are used to paying per minute for phones or per month or per day/week, etc.
The longer the time for subscription, the less Bitcoin transactions needed

Cons:
If a network connection is not highly utilized, limiting the connection of someone trying to move large amounts of data is unnecessary.
There would only be a certain amount of "reserved" slots per connection to guarantee users' access to the pipe.

Usage
Pros:
Each connection can serve as many users as it wants at full capacity
You only pay for what you use, if you don't send or receive much data you don't pay as much as network hogs
It encourages software/habits to not use as much data for transfers

Cons:
Most people prefer to just pay on a subscription basis and not have to worry about how much data they're using
People using a lot of data regularly like gamers or skype or netflix or other large transfers will have to pay more
Discouraging usage might not make economic sense for a system set up to get paid for usage

Thoughts?

[Bitcoin-hotep]

well now we know you have no desire to be involved and lack insightful idea's to help make something like this happen. you can get on with your life.

I have been getting on with my life. All I came to this thread for was to say "This is the answer to the net neutrality problem" and "Does anyone plan on making a Global network" then you started acting like I had a fist in your ass.