It's not the pet, it's the irresponsible pet owner

[sana8410]

God but pits can be beautiful dogs though, the bluecoats are something else.

And the only word I can of to describe the French poodle, the full size, I saw recently is "majestic". If I ever get a dog, isn't a doubt it would be a full size poodle, damn that dog looked so proud and tall. I don't like the whiphounds and the like, scrawny little bony things.

Re chihuahuas and other rat dogs, I'm just tired of seeing them, but they have the advantage of being like a cat in respect to size, and still being a dog in terms of pack mentality, i.e., submission to the alpha. So they're very popular, especially amongst urban dwellers, but I just see WAY too many of them.
 I look at a pet dying in the following manner: if the pet has been loved and treated well, then it has been amongst the most fortunate organisms ever to live, and is far better off than many a human has ever been, is now, or will ever be.

I didn't either, until we 'inherited' one; a whippet.  She's gorgeous, sweet natured, super intelligent (and stubborn!) and really unique.  Unlike any dog we've ever had.  Wouldn't trade her for anything.

[umair127]

In Ontario where I am at the moment pit bulls are banned. If you owned one before the ban you can keep it but it cannot be outside even on your own property unless it is muzzled. If you take it for a walk it must be on a leash and muzzled. It has put an end to attacks and killings by pit bulls. Some may say that the government may be going to far but I support it. Nothing is too much when it come to protecting our children.

[sana8410]

In Ontario where I am at the moment pit bulls are banned. If you owned one before the ban you can keep it but it cannot be outside even on your own property unless it is muzzled. If you take it for a walk it must be on a leash and muzzled. It has put an end to attacks and killings by pit bulls. Some may say that the government may be going to far but I support it. Nothing is too much when it come to protecting our children.

I'm leaning toward banning the breed.  Just too many horror stories for there to be no basis for it. 

[Dogtanian]

Although I would tend to agree that pet owners tend to bring out the worst qualities in their pets it should be realised that some breeds (in particular pit bulls but also other smaller related breeds) were in particular chosen for *one quality* and that is that "they don't respect territory" (which is why they are keen to fight in an unfamiliar place which most other dog breeds would not do).

I used to own such a dog (of the smaller breed variety) and I certainly *never trained my dog to be aggressive* (and luckily he never hurt any human) but he did fight with other dogs which was problematic and costly (I think if I get another dog it will be a different breed).

This is very true and it's down to both owner and dog. As you say some dogs like pitbulls are bred to be aggresive and the owners can either encourage this behaviour or surpess it, but no matter how much training goes into some of these dogs their aggression will always be in their genes and can reappear at any time. Let's face it, most people don't get pitbulls for family pets.

[ShibaWow]

This is yet another pit bull attack story.  I don't know if it's a breed 'trait' or not

no, it's the owners fault

it's just a stereotype about them, my cousin has a pit bull and he's a nice cheerful dog, they have a few small children there and there has never been an issue

this dog however has surely been neglected by it's owner and that's why he's agressive

it's not the breed

it's never the dogs fault, as Cesar Millan says, it's ALWAYS the owners fault

sue the owner, he deserves it

I'm really sorry to hear about your dog  

you have my support, keep us updated..

In Ontario where I am at the moment pit bulls are banned. If you owned one before the ban you can keep it but it cannot be outside even on your own property unless it is muzzled. If you take it for a walk it must be on a leash and muzzled. It has put an end to attacks and killings by pit bulls. Some may say that the government may be going to far but I support it. Nothing is too much when it come to protecting our children.

in my country large dogs aren't allowed to be in public places without a muzzle

I'm leaning toward banning the breed.  Just too many horror stories for there to be no basis for it.

it's not about the breed

it's about bad owners

any dog can grow up to be aggressive because his owner didn't take enough time to raise him..

my neighbour owns a Tosa Inu which is a breed for dog fights, it's a large dog and it got loose a few times, even rushed towards me (I knew if I started running he would chase me just stood there and watched him, he turned back), he got in a fight with my dog (german shepard) a few times, hopefully we could get them away from each other, but I know it's not his fault

I take my dog for a walk almost every day, I spend time with him, learn him tricks

However my neigbour, I don't remember seeing him walking the dog in months

99% of the time he's just in the back yard with no one talking to him or playing with him

This is the reason why dogs turn aggressive, not their breed

[acs267]

Although I would tend to agree that pet owners tend to bring out the worst qualities in their pets it should be realised that some breeds (in particular pit bulls but also other smaller related breeds) were in particular chosen for *one quality* and that is that "they don't respect territory" (which is why they are keen to fight in an unfamiliar place which most other dog breeds would not do).

I used to own such a dog (of the smaller breed variety) and I certainly *never trained my dog to be aggressive* (and luckily he never hurt any human) but he did fight with other dogs which was problematic and costly (I think if I get another dog it will be a different breed).

This is very true and it's down to both owner and dog. As you say some dogs like pitbulls are bred to be aggresive and the owners can either encourage this behaviour or surpess it, but no matter how much training goes into some of these dogs their aggression will always be in their genes and can reappear at any time. Let's face it, most people don't get pitbulls for family pets.

Bullshit. Rotties were bred as farm dogs, Dobers to protect debt collectors (I'm pretty sure that's why Doberman bred them). Yes, they were bred to be 'aggressive' breeds, but you're saying the owner that doesn't even treat them like a human being isn't to blame, but the 'aggressive genetics'? If someone didn't encourage the aggressive behavior then guess what? The pet will know not to do it. A example is my German Shepherd/Chow mix. He knows the lines between playing (Puppy-mouthing) and full-blown attacking. The worse he's ever done was shoved his arse in my face while I was sleeping. However, in some peoples minds, both of these breeds are 'dangerous'.

And how does getting a animal as a family pet have anything to do with it?

[ShibaWow]

Although I would tend to agree that pet owners tend to bring out the worst qualities in their pets it should be realised that some breeds (in particular pit bulls but also other smaller related breeds) were in particular chosen for *one quality* and that is that "they don't respect territory" (which is why they are keen to fight in an unfamiliar place which most other dog breeds would not do).

I used to own such a dog (of the smaller breed variety) and I certainly *never trained my dog to be aggressive* (and luckily he never hurt any human) but he did fight with other dogs which was problematic and costly (I think if I get another dog it will be a different breed).

This is very true and it's down to both owner and dog. As you say some dogs like pitbulls are bred to be aggresive and the owners can either encourage this behaviour or surpess it, but no matter how much training goes into some of these dogs their aggression will always be in their genes and can reappear at any time. Let's face it, most people don't get pitbulls for family pets.

Bullshit. Rotties were bred as farm dogs, Dobers to protect debt collectors (I'm pretty sure that's why Doberman bred them). Yes, they were bred to be 'aggressive' breeds, but you're saying the owner that doesn't even treat them like a human being isn't to blame, but the 'aggressive genetics'? If someone didn't encourage the aggressive behavior then guess what? The pet will know not to do it. A example is my German Shepherd/Chow mix. He knows the lines between playing (Puppy-mouthing) and full-blown attacking. The worse he's ever done was shoved his arse in my face while I was sleeping. However, in some peoples minds, both of these breeds are 'dangerous'.

And how does getting a animal as a family pet have anything to do with it?

people like them saying that all pit bulls are aggressive will say that white people are the same as black people
somehow genetics doesn't affect humans but it affects dogs
or you're saying all black people are thieves?
that's interesting

[FFrost]

Don't most owners of pitfalls breed the dog to be vicious? Like some kind of trophy so when the walk down the street it looks like the dog is walking them. Pitbulls are pure muscle and can be trained to kill but also can be loving and caring.

[sana8410]

Don't most owners of pitfalls breed the dog to be vicious? Like some kind of trophy so when the walk down the street it looks like the dog is walking them. Pitbulls are pure muscle and can be trained to kill but also can be loving and caring.

Exacly!

[zolace]

Don't most owners of pitfalls breed the dog to be vicious? Like some kind of trophy so when the walk down the street it looks like the dog is walking them. Pitbulls are pure muscle and can be trained to kill but also can be loving and caring.

Exacly!

There are so many issues at work here.  The tragedy associated with her pup, her own injuries, the dangerous disregard for the safety of others on the part of the pit bull's owner.  And the general issue of irresponsible pet ownership on the part of far too many individuals.  And the vexing issue of pit bulls as a breed.  And how dangerous they can be, both in terms of temperament and with regard to the physical structure of their muscular - skeletal structure, most particularly their jaws.  Once again I am truly sorry for everything that has happened.  Like most others on this thread, I would recommend that your daughter contact the proper authorities.  It is the only way that we might be able to prevent such happening in the future. 

[umair127]

anyone remember Petey?  The control freaks did the same thing to German Shepherds and  Rottweilers, to the extent that it was against the law to breed them in Germany, where they originated.  It wasn't the dog's fault. If you have an aggressive dog, you know it, and you are responsible for its actions.  It doesn't matter what breed it is.

I find it entertaining that the ones who scream "racist" the loudest and the most often are so prejudiced.
http://danlederman.wordpress.com/2014/01/24/banning-breeds-not-the-answer/

[Rigon]

In Ontario where I am at the moment pit bulls are banned. If you owned one before the ban you can keep it but it cannot be outside even on your own property unless it is muzzled. If you take it for a walk it must be on a leash and muzzled. It has put an end to attacks and killings by pit bulls. Some may say that the government may be going to far but I support it. Nothing is too much when it come to protecting our children.

I'm leaning toward banning the breed.  Just too many horror stories for there to be no basis for it. 

Come on jackie, you too?  It's unfortunate that the little Chi-chi was manhandled by a pit bull but to ban a breed because it's strong? A pit bull is a dog. I'd be in favor of tough penalties for owners of dogs who allow them off leash anywhere off their own property. $1000 first offense, $5000 second offense and 1 year jail sentence on 3d offense?

[ShibaWow]

In Ontario where I am at the moment pit bulls are banned. If you owned one before the ban you can keep it but it cannot be outside even on your own property unless it is muzzled. If you take it for a walk it must be on a leash and muzzled. It has put an end to attacks and killings by pit bulls. Some may say that the government may be going to far but I support it. Nothing is too much when it come to protecting our children.

I'm leaning toward banning the breed.  Just too many horror stories for there to be no basis for it. 

Come on jackie, you too?  It's unfortunate that the little Chi-chi was manhandled by a pit bull but to ban a breed because it's strong? A pit bull is a dog. I'd be in favor of tough penalties for owners of dogs who allow them off leash anywhere off their own property. $1000 first offense, $5000 second offense and 1 year jail sentence on 3d offense?

that's a bit harsh

but for attacks, owners should be sued and penalized

not only from the victim but from the state too

[sana8410]

I've heard all the arguments here, and for a while we were fans of the Animal Planet shows that centered on pit rescues.  I'm an animal lover.  I just don't know that, at this point in the breed's history, if these aggressive traits can be successfully bred OUT of them.  The unpredictability is just too much of a risk.  Umair's description of Ontario's response seems reasonable to me.  Just does.  

[Rigon]

I've heard all the arguments here, and for a while we were fans of the Animal Planet shows that centered on pit rescues.  I'm an animal lover.  I just don't know that, at this point in the breed's history, if these aggressive traits can be successfully bred OUT of them.  The unpredictability is just too much of a risk.  Umair's description of Ontario's response seems reasonable to me.  Just does.  

I'm aware that you are generally an animal lover. Maybe after a few days would be a better time to broach this.

If a black teenager held you up and hit your daughter I suppose we would ban black teenagers from your village as well? jk   Sorry , but I will always have a hard time with this banning of breeds. If a person isn't able to handle the responsibility and care necessary then they should be held accountable, not the animal. Over the years I have been keenly aware of this 'breed banning' and the breed of the decade that seems to go with it. Doberman's were once a target, even German Sheperds, my beloved Rottweilers and of course the pit bull.

 Poodles are much nastier than a Rottweiler, in temperament, but they are so purdee so no one ever thinks to BAN them. Any dog is capable of biting, after all they are animals.........responsible dog owners, and laws governing those responsibilities seem to me to be the rational and intelligent choice.

[noviapriani]

I absolutely believe in breed-specific aggressiveness.  Cocker spaniels, for example, tend to be very temperamental and bitey, for lack of a better word.  The problem with pits is that they back up that breed-specific aggressiveness (that's not a blanket statement meant to say that every pit is aggressive, of course) with a ton of very raw power.  If a Chihuahua had as much power we'd all be running for our lives from them because those fuckers are mean.  lol.

Anyway, my point is that having a pit can be quite a bit like having a loaded gun that is capable of going off on its own, so if you've got one, no matter how sweet it is or how loving it has always been, you have a huge responsibility to make sure it cannot hurt anyone.  And that's a pretty hard thing to ensure if it's a family pet.

I'm not for banning them...but I am for huge fines for those shown to be irresponsible with keeping of pits.  And God help you if you're found abusing or fighting them, because I have no mercy for you. 

I hate that it happened, Sana, and I really do think that you must convince your daughter to contact the authorities.  Now that he's attacked a smaller dog he may not hesitate to attack that baby who lives in the home.

[sana8410]

Well all dogs are capable of biting, and some breeds more temperamental than others...true.  I think it's the viciousness and sadly, often the lethal nature of the pit attacks that are the paramount concern.  

[noviapriani]

The point that this is a man-made breed is a valid one.  Maybe the responsible thing to do is to forbid any further breeding of them...but I don't know how in the world you'd enforce it.  Fining anyone found with pit puppies?  What about the mixes?  How would you prove the dog is indeed a pit mix? 

I dunno'.  Seems easier to fine irresponsible owners on the first offense, and GREATLY increasing punishment for every offense thereafter.

[zolace]

Lots of dogs are strong, but they weren't bred to kill other dogs. 

Ban the breed because men created it to kill other dogs. Pass a law that requires all existing pit bulls to be neutered and spayed, and then a ban on breeding any more pits, with heavy penalties for violaters. 

It's a breed we don't need. 

[sana8410]

The point that this is a man-made breed is a valid one.  Maybe the responsible thing to do is to forbid any further breeding of them...but I don't know how in the world you'd enforce it.  Fining anyone found with pit puppies?  What about the mixes?  How would you prove the dog is indeed a pit mix? 

I dunno'.  Seems easier to fine irresponsible owners on the first offense, and GREATLY increasing punishment for every offense thereafter.

fun, your, man made them, man should eliminate them, is pure arrogant ignorance on your part. Dangerous thing to say when lives are on the line.