You are speculators not investors

[ElectricMucus]

This shit gets old, get your facts straight.

Investing implies letting money work in a sense that it is actually utilized by somebody else. Buying stocks is investing and speculation, the company issuing the stock uses the money and pays out dividends.
That's the investing part.
The actual valuation of the stock is speculation, so for instance the value of a stock can rise but the dividends stay the same, this for example happens with pump & dump penny stocks.

Venture Capitalists do pure investing, they don't want a stake in the company but just effectively giving out a loan.


The obsession with holding and then calling it investing reeks of self delusion on your part.
So hodlers - lets argue.

[oda.krell]

Providing capital to something in order for that something to be able to perform its intended purpose  = investing.

Hence, we're investors.

thread over.

[Hyena]

This shit gets old, get your facts straight.

Investing implies letting money work in a sense that it is actually utilized by somebody else. Buying stocks is investing and speculation, the company issuing the stock uses the money and pays out dividends.
That's the investing part.
The actual valuation of the stock is speculation, so for instance the value of a stock can rise but the dividends stay the same, this for example happens with pump & dump penny stocks.

Venture Capitalists do pure investing, they don't want a stake in the company but just effectively giving out a loan.


The obsession with holding and then calling it investing reeks of self delusion on your part.
So hodlers - lets argue.

If you hold then you have invested. If you keep holding while also protecting your investment, you are an investor. I am protecting my investment by calling all bitcoin opponents idiots and willing to fist fight for that matter. Others do it by promoting bitcoin and making what-is-bitcoin videos. We are all investors because we have something to lose and thus -- something to protect. I lied about the fist fighting thing.

[Raystonn]

Per OP's definition, buyers of an IPO are investors, but anyone buying after the IPO is not.  Yet clearly without later buyers you would have no IPO buyers.  OP has a very narrow view.

[twiifm]

Per OP's definition, buyers of an IPO are investors, but anyone buying after the IPO is not.  Yet clearly without later buyers you would have no IPO buyers.  OP has a very narrow view.

He didnt say that.  Hes talking about dividend stocks. IPO stocks dont give dividends

[kireinaha]

We're participating in a superior currency model which will one day -- in the not too distant future -- free the people of the world from rampant government corruption and crony capitalism. We're all investing our money for a better tomorrow.

[Torque]

Good question.  Is bitcoin money?  If so, is money an investment?  Is my lump of fiat in the bank an investment?

Gold can be seen as a speculative investment (if the desire is for it to go up in value), but what if it doesn't go up in value?  Is it still a speculative investment?  Or is it just a store of value?

What if I just view my bitcoin as a store of value?  Then is it no longer seen as an investment, or a speculation?

Where do zebras get their stripes?

What is the sound of one hand clapping?

If a tree falls in the woods...?

[ElectricMucus]

Providing capital to something in order for that something to be able to perform its intended purpose  = investing.

Hence, we're investors.

If I stuff cash under my mattress it also performs it's intended purpose, it stays there.

We're participating in a superior currency model which will one day -- in the not too distant future -- free the people of the world from rampant government corruption and crony capitalism. We're all investing our money for a better tomorrow.

lol you see what I mean?

[Raystonn]

Per OP's definition, buyers of an IPO are investors, but anyone buying after the IPO is not.  Yet clearly without later buyers you would have no IPO buyers.  OP has a very narrow view.

He didnt say that.  Hes talking about dividend stocks. IPO stocks dont give dividends

IPO stocks??  What?  All stocks are first presented to the market as an IPO, or Initial Public Offering.  That has nothing to do with dividends.  Buyers of an IPO hope for price appreciation so they can see gains in their investment.  The same can be said for buyers after the IPO.  OP's definition is inconsistent with reality.

[twiifm]

Per OP's definition, buyers of an IPO are investors, but anyone buying after the IPO is not.  Yet clearly without later buyers you would have no IPO buyers.  OP has a very narrow view.

He didnt say that.  Hes talking about dividend stocks. IPO stocks dont give dividends

IPO stocks??  What?  All stocks are first presented to the market as an IPO, or Initial Public Offering.  That has nothing to do with dividends.  Buyers of an IPO hope for price appreciation so they can see gains in their investment.  The same can be said for buyers after the IPO.  OP's definition is inconsistent with reality.

Yes companies that just IPOd dont give dividends because theyre in a growth phase

They give dividends later in their maturity.  The OP said the dividend part is investment and the valuation is speculative. Nothing inconsistent here

[ElectricMucus]

I posted that, "Investing implies letting money work in a sense that it is actually utilized by somebody else."
That was the key point, everything else was examples to illustrate my point. When "return on investment" happens has nothing to do with it.


But notice the terminology of ROI and how it is consistent.

[N12]

So investing in commodities (gold most prominently) is not investing either?

[twiifm]

Nothing wrong w speculating but the replies are funny.  Bitcoiners get defensive when someone calls them speculators.  LOL

[ElectricMucus]

So investing in commodities (gold most prominently) is not investing either?

Well there is investing in gold mines.
As far as this self delusion goes I'd say it's the Goldbugs that pretty much started it.

However the answer is more complicated than that, in particular the futures market and how its utilized by gold producers.
But buying physical gold and stashing it is def. not investment.

[ElectricMucus]

Nothing wrong w speculating but the replies are funny.  Bitcoiners get defensive when someone calls them speculators.  LOL

yay!

[Swordsoffreedom]

I can't help but snicker to point out that this subtopic is called the Speculation thread not the investors thread.
Now if it said Economics --> Investors then we would have a better point to argue 

[snowcrawl]

There has been a tendency for many to get swept up in the excitement over something that is still very new and full of novelty, compared with what we knew before.  For something to be worthy of the title investment, it needs to be worth our time.  Many of us who have gotten involved with bitcoin mining have realized that it was a lot harder than we had initially imagined to just barely break even, after investing in equipment that rapidly becomes obsolete.  There has to be a better way of investing in this, to make it truly worth our time and effort.  Like the difference between investing in Apple stock and simply having invested the same money in Apple computer equipment which has over time become completely obsolete.

[Ibian]

Come on, this is just schmuck bait. I hope this thread is just an example of boredom and nothing else.

[Miz4r]

In finance, investment is the purchase of an asset or item with the hope that it will generate income or appreciate in the future and be sold at the higher price. It generally does not include deposits with a bank or similar institution. The term investment is usually used when referring to a long-term outlook. This is the opposite of trading or speculation, which are short-term practices involving a much higher degree of risk.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investment

/thread

[cosmicapex]

This shit gets old, get your facts straight.

Venture Capitalists do pure investing, they don't want a stake in the company but just effectively giving out a loan.

This op is just brutal.

Please, tell us more "facts."