Antminer S3 - Profit is Impossible

[Chopperman]

What if the coin goes DOWN?

Can you profit buying the coin (shorting BTC is very difficult from what I understand) if the exchange rate drops?  A miner can.

Purchase miner for 0.75BTC.  Mine 0.375BTC.  BTC goes down to say $100.  You have 0.375BTC worth $37.50.
Don't purchase miner, keep the .75BTC.  BTC goes down to say $100.  You have 0.75BTC worth $75.00.

No matter what happens with the exchange rate of BTC or whether it goes up or down, 0.75BTC is always more than 0.375. 
At this point I simply refuse to believe that anyone can be this obtuse or ignorant.  You must be trolling. 

There's a hidden variable here though.   If 1000 or 10000 people decide the same thing (purchase BTC direct rather than mine it), then the
additional purchase pressure makes the exchange rate less likely to go down. (and more likely, up)

The attractiveness of mining now is partly getting BTC from the pool of newly minted coin every day, rather than on an exchange, where
you are opening yourself up to unknown fraud potential, KYC rules, and possibly enriching an early adopter by purchasing their old coin,
or otherwise contributing to the demand side.   

The thing that baffles me though is that the upside is completely capped by the size of the initial investment.   Because of rising difficulty,
all mining investments become trickle income in a few months.   It's like congratulating yourself for buying a share in Apple at $100 (pre
split) and watching it grow to $700.    You only realize the $600 profit if you sell it, and you only have one to sell.   Once that's done, you're
out of the game.   People who purchased a miner and used it for a few months are partial BTC owners, they are not on the path to
the "new wealthy elite".    The logical thing at that point is to turn off that miner and move on.   It is not logical to decide that they need to
10x the size of their initial investment just to stay in the game.

Once the initial miners decide to get out, the hardware will go on the open market at blow out prices, there will be purchasers for those
who will make new ROI decisions on old hardware at trickle income rates. 

[1714875068]

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[1714875068]

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[iglasses]

What if the coin goes DOWN?

Can you profit buying the coin (shorting BTC is very difficult from what I understand) if the exchange rate drops?  A miner can.

Purchase miner for 0.75BTC.  Mine 0.375BTC.  BTC goes down to say $100.  You have 0.375BTC worth $37.50.
Don't purchase miner, keep the .75BTC.  BTC goes down to say $100.  You have 0.75BTC worth $75.00.

No matter what happens with the exchange rate of BTC or whether it goes up or down, 0.75BTC is always more than 0.375. 
At this point I simply refuse to believe that anyone can be this obtuse or ignorant.  You must be trolling. 

I thin it's YOU who is trolling...

BTC @ $600(USD) I Buy 1 coin
BTC @ $600(USD) I buy mining equipment for 1 coin

BTC @ $550(USD) My one coin is worth $550
BTC @ $550(USD) My mined amount can go OVER $550 because I can mine 1+BTC with it.

Are you so obtuse or ignorant that you cannot understand something this simple?

[brian_23452]

What if the coin goes DOWN?

Can you profit buying the coin (shorting BTC is very difficult from what I understand) if the exchange rate drops?  A miner can.

Purchase miner for 0.75BTC.  Mine 0.375BTC.  BTC goes down to say $100.  You have 0.375BTC worth $37.50.
Don't purchase miner, keep the .75BTC.  BTC goes down to say $100.  You have 0.75BTC worth $75.00.

No matter what happens with the exchange rate of BTC or whether it goes up or down, 0.75BTC is always more than 0.375. 
At this point I simply refuse to believe that anyone can be this obtuse or ignorant.  You must be trolling. 

I thin it's YOU who is trolling...

BTC @ $600(USD) I Buy 1 coin
BTC @ $600(USD) I buy mining equipment for 1 coin

BTC @ $550(USD) My one coin is worth $550
BTC @ $550(USD) My mined amount can go OVER $550 because I can mine 1+BTC with it.

Are you so obtuse or ignorant that you cannot understand something this simple?

The post I quoted was specifically talking about a scenario where you  pay 0.75BTC for a miner, having it mine 0.375BTC, and somehow that is still a profit.  So basically, not only can you not do math, you can't read either. 
No wonder people think miners are stupid, they have to deal with ignorance like this all the time.

[ALToids]

What if the coin goes DOWN?

Can you profit buying the coin (shorting BTC is very difficult from what I understand) if the exchange rate drops?  A miner can.

Purchase miner for 0.75BTC.  Mine 0.375BTC.  BTC goes down to say $100.  You have 0.375BTC worth $37.50.
Don't purchase miner, keep the .75BTC.  BTC goes down to say $100.  You have 0.75BTC worth $75.00.

No matter what happens with the exchange rate of BTC or whether it goes up or down, 0.75BTC is always more than 0.375. 
At this point I simply refuse to believe that anyone can be this obtuse or ignorant.  You must be trolling. 

I thin it's YOU who is trolling...

BTC @ $600(USD) I Buy 1 coin
BTC @ $600(USD) I buy mining equipment for 1 coin

BTC @ $550(USD) My one coin is worth $550
BTC @ $550(USD) My mined amount can go OVER $550 because I can mine 1+BTC with it.

Are you so obtuse or ignorant that you cannot understand something this simple?

So you're finding the magical miner that makes more BTC than it's initial outlay.  Not one BFL device did that.  Not one Cointerra.  Not one Hashfast.  Not one Black Arrow.  None of the Avalon B3s.

THe first 2 Avalons, the first KNC Jups, and the first S1s did this.

Dragon, Rockminer, SP30s won't.

Good luck.

[iglasses]

What if the coin goes DOWN?

Can you profit buying the coin (shorting BTC is very difficult from what I understand) if the exchange rate drops?  A miner can.

Purchase miner for 0.75BTC.  Mine 0.375BTC.  BTC goes down to say $100.  You have 0.375BTC worth $37.50.
Don't purchase miner, keep the .75BTC.  BTC goes down to say $100.  You have 0.75BTC worth $75.00.

No matter what happens with the exchange rate of BTC or whether it goes up or down, 0.75BTC is always more than 0.375. 
At this point I simply refuse to believe that anyone can be this obtuse or ignorant.  You must be trolling. 

I thin it's YOU who is trolling...

BTC @ $600(USD) I Buy 1 coin
BTC @ $600(USD) I buy mining equipment for 1 coin

BTC @ $550(USD) My one coin is worth $550
BTC @ $550(USD) My mined amount can go OVER $550 because I can mine 1+BTC with it.

Are you so obtuse or ignorant that you cannot understand something this simple?

The post I quoted was specifically talking about a scenario where you  pay 0.75BTC for a miner, having it mine 0.375BTC, and somehow that is still a profit.  So basically, not only can you not do math, you can't read either. 
No wonder people think miners are stupid, they have to deal with ignorance like this all the time.

LOL...I'm afraid you are confusing me with ummm....YOU.  There is nothing wrong my any of my math.  If you can't understand it I suggest you find a tutor.  Maybe they can help with your anger management as well.

The very nature of this thread is antagonistic.  What I am addressing is the inaccuracy of the fundamental thought being portrayed here, that profiting from the purchase of an S3 is "impossible".  It is NOT impossible.  I have simply tried to show the flaws, where I see them, in some of the things people, yourself included, have posted in the thread.
If you would like to take some specific piece of information and warp it until it fits your belief that's fine with me but please do not include hard math in your emotional outbursts.  It is shining a light on you that is very unflattering.

[brian_23452]

What if the coin goes DOWN?

Can you profit buying the coin (shorting BTC is very difficult from what I understand) if the exchange rate drops?  A miner can.

Purchase miner for 0.75BTC.  Mine 0.375BTC.  BTC goes down to say $100.  You have 0.375BTC worth $37.50.
Don't purchase miner, keep the .75BTC.  BTC goes down to say $100.  You have 0.75BTC worth $75.00.

No matter what happens with the exchange rate of BTC or whether it goes up or down, 0.75BTC is always more than 0.375. 
At this point I simply refuse to believe that anyone can be this obtuse or ignorant.  You must be trolling. 

I thin it's YOU who is trolling...

BTC @ $600(USD) I Buy 1 coin
BTC @ $600(USD) I buy mining equipment for 1 coin

BTC @ $550(USD) My one coin is worth $550
BTC @ $550(USD) My mined amount can go OVER $550 because I can mine 1+BTC with it.

Are you so obtuse or ignorant that you cannot understand something this simple?

The post I quoted was specifically talking about a scenario where you  pay 0.75BTC for a miner, having it mine 0.375BTC, and somehow that is still a profit.  So basically, not only can you not do math, you can't read either. 
No wonder people think miners are stupid, they have to deal with ignorance like this all the time.

LOL...I'm afraid you are confusing me with ummm....YOU.  There is nothing wrong my any of my math.  If you can't understand it I suggest you find a tutor.  Maybe they can help with your anger management as well.

The very nature of this thread is antagonistic.  What I am addressing is the inaccuracy of the fundamental thought being portrayed here, that profiting from the purchase of an S3 is "impossible".  It is NOT impossible.  I have simply tried to show the flaws, where I see them, in some of the things people, yourself included, have posted in the thread.
If you would like to take some specific piece of information and warp it until it fits your belief that's fine with me but please do not include hard math in your emotional outbursts.  It is shining a light on you that is very unflattering.

Learn to read.  That is all.

[iglasses]

What if the coin goes DOWN?

Can you profit buying the coin (shorting BTC is very difficult from what I understand) if the exchange rate drops?  A miner can.

Purchase miner for 0.75BTC.  Mine 0.375BTC.  BTC goes down to say $100.  You have 0.375BTC worth $37.50.
Don't purchase miner, keep the .75BTC.  BTC goes down to say $100.  You have 0.75BTC worth $75.00.

No matter what happens with the exchange rate of BTC or whether it goes up or down, 0.75BTC is always more than 0.375. 
At this point I simply refuse to believe that anyone can be this obtuse or ignorant.  You must be trolling. 

I thin it's YOU who is trolling...

BTC @ $600(USD) I Buy 1 coin
BTC @ $600(USD) I buy mining equipment for 1 coin

BTC @ $550(USD) My one coin is worth $550
BTC @ $550(USD) My mined amount can go OVER $550 because I can mine 1+BTC with it.

Are you so obtuse or ignorant that you cannot understand something this simple?

So you're finding the magical miner that makes more BTC than it's initial outlay.  Not one BFL device did that.  Not one Cointerra.  Not one Hashfast.  Not one Black Arrow.  None of the Avalon B3s.

THe first 2 Avalons, the first KNC Jups, and the first S1s did this.

Dragon, Rockminer, SP30s won't.

Good luck.

This thread is not about any of those devices and what you can/cannot do with them.  It is about the S3.  If you would like I can run the math with the specific cost of an S3 and show the same result, which will reach the same conclusion.  Profit with an S3 is NOT impossible.  That is what the OP stated as if it were fact, that is what is wrong, that is what the focus should be on.

[iglasses]

What if the coin goes DOWN?

Can you profit buying the coin (shorting BTC is very difficult from what I understand) if the exchange rate drops?  A miner can.

Purchase miner for 0.75BTC.  Mine 0.375BTC.  BTC goes down to say $100.  You have 0.375BTC worth $37.50.
Don't purchase miner, keep the .75BTC.  BTC goes down to say $100.  You have 0.75BTC worth $75.00.

No matter what happens with the exchange rate of BTC or whether it goes up or down, 0.75BTC is always more than 0.375. 
At this point I simply refuse to believe that anyone can be this obtuse or ignorant.  You must be trolling. 

I thin it's YOU who is trolling...

BTC @ $600(USD) I Buy 1 coin
BTC @ $600(USD) I buy mining equipment for 1 coin

BTC @ $550(USD) My one coin is worth $550
BTC @ $550(USD) My mined amount can go OVER $550 because I can mine 1+BTC with it.

Are you so obtuse or ignorant that you cannot understand something this simple?

The post I quoted was specifically talking about a scenario where you  pay 0.75BTC for a miner, having it mine 0.375BTC, and somehow that is still a profit.  So basically, not only can you not do math, you can't read either. 
No wonder people think miners are stupid, they have to deal with ignorance like this all the time.

LOL...I'm afraid you are confusing me with ummm....YOU.  There is nothing wrong my any of my math.  If you can't understand it I suggest you find a tutor.  Maybe they can help with your anger management as well.

The very nature of this thread is antagonistic.  What I am addressing is the inaccuracy of the fundamental thought being portrayed here, that profiting from the purchase of an S3 is "impossible".  It is NOT impossible.  I have simply tried to show the flaws, where I see them, in some of the things people, yourself included, have posted in the thread.
If you would like to take some specific piece of information and warp it until it fits your belief that's fine with me but please do not include hard math in your emotional outbursts.  It is shining a light on you that is very unflattering.

Learn to read.  That is all.

No it isn't.  I can read quite well thank you.  Perhaps one day you will join us, but I fear not.
Instead of trying (badly at that) to insult me, why don't you point out for me a single thing that I've said that is incorrect.

That is all.

[alh]

These discussions usually devolve into this kind of argument. It all depends on your assumptions you make. And while you can claim to want to exclude the BTC/dollar (yes USA centric), you can entirely the reason you can't is that I am not aware of a single electric company that will quote you a stable rate in BTC, it's always in dollar. You then have to make assumptions about the difficulty increases, or decreases along the way. Finally you have to make an assumption about the residual value of the mining hardware. It quite easy to pick values that show a profit (in BTC), and those that show a loss (in BTC). All of you can be right, and all can be wrong, all at the same time.

If I assume 20% difficulty jumps, and pay $.50/Kwh, and zero residual value, then I lose for sure. If I assume 2% jumps, $.05/KWh, and 50% residual (in BTC), then profit is assured. Neither of these set of assumptions match my reality, and don't likely match your either. Both however are possible, although not likely.

[xstr8guy]

These discussions usually devolve into this kind of argument. It all depends on your assumptions you make. And while you can claim to want to exclude the BTC/dollar (yes USA centric), you can entirely the reason you can't is that I am not aware of a single electric company that will quote you a stable rate in BTC, it's always in dollar. You then have to make assumptions about the difficulty increases, or decreases along the way. Finally you have to make an assumption about the residual value of the mining hardware. It quite easy to pick values that show a profit (in BTC), and those that show a loss (in BTC). All of you can be right, and all can be wrong, all at the same time.

If I assume 20% difficulty jumps, and pay $.50/Kwh, and zero residual value, then I lose for sure. If I assume 2% jumps, $.05/KWh, and 50% residual (in BTC), then profit is assured. Neither of these set of assumptions match my reality, and don't likely match your either. Both however are possible, although not likely.

The voice of reason at last!

Yes, there is some slim, outside chance that an S3 will earn more BTC than it costs. It is very unlikely though. And most thoughtful investors would stay far, far away from such an investment.

[xstr8guy]

So you're finding the magical miner that makes more BTC than it's initial outlay.  Not one BFL device did that.  Not one Cointerra.  Not one Hashfast.  Not one Black Arrow.  None of the Avalon B3s.

THe first 2 Avalons, the first KNC Jups, and the first S1s did this.

Dragon, Rockminer, SP30s won't.

Good luck.

Add to that list the early Bitfury rigs. I've made a buttload of coins from my 4 strange, yet wonderful Bitfury rigs. And they're still as energy efficient as many of the newest ASICs.

[spazzdla]

Let me throw one thing out there..

If the price skyrockets to 10k, you will be pounding out $ per day.

"OH BUT SPAZZDLA EVERYONE WILL JUST BUY MINERS AND IT WILL KILL THE PROFIT!!"

Oh and where will they get all of these miners?  BFL? KNC? ... Bitmain and Rockminers won't be able to fill all the orders they will get.



This is where mining really pays off when you buy a machine and the price jumps in the next little bit. Also that obsolete machine becomes useful again..

[ALToids]

Let me throw one thing out there..

If the price skyrockets to 10k, you will be pounding out $ per day.

"OH BUT SPAZZDLA EVERYONE WILL JUST BUY MINERS AND IT WILL KILL THE PROFIT!!"

Oh and where will they get all of these miners?  BFL? KNC? ... Bitmain and Rockminers won't be able to fill all the orders they will get.



This is where mining really pays off when you buy a machine and the price jumps in the next little bit. Also that obsolete machine becomes useful again..

If BTC doubles in price, people who bought 10BTC a couple of months ago will be laughing at the people who bought miners since they could cash out of they wanted to while the miners are waiting on a trickle of mining income.

[philipma1957]

What if the coin goes DOWN?

Can you profit buying the coin (shorting BTC is very difficult from what I understand) if the exchange rate drops?  A miner can.

Purchase miner for 0.75BTC.  Mine 0.375BTC.  BTC goes down to say $100.  You have 0.375BTC worth $37.50.
Don't purchase miner, keep the .75BTC.  BTC goes down to say $100.  You have 0.75BTC worth $75.00.

No matter what happens with the exchange rate of BTC or whether it goes up or down, 0.75BTC is always more than 0.375.  
At this point I simply refuse to believe that anyone can be this obtuse or ignorant.  You must be trolling.  

I thin it's YOU who is trolling...

BTC @ $600(USD) I Buy 1 coin
BTC @ $600(USD) I buy mining equipment for 1 coin

BTC @ $550(USD) My one coin is worth $550
BTC @ $550(USD) My mined amount can go OVER $550 because I can mine 1+BTC with it.

Are you so obtuse or ignorant that you cannot understand something this simple?

So you're finding the magical miner that makes more BTC than it's initial outlay.  Not one BFL device did that.  Not one Cointerra.  Not one Hashfast.  Not one Black Arrow.  None of the Avalon B3s.

THe first 2 Avalons, the first KNC Jups, and the first S1s did this.

Dragon, Rockminer, SP30s won't.

Good luck.

you are assuming quite a bit saying a dragon will not do roi in btc.  it could.   you have no idea of power cost for someone.  put in 1th with 0 power cost  it will get a lot of coins.
also there is a power wall for asics.  and it will be reached when it is reached growth will slow to a crawl.

if power wall is .2 watts diff will max near 600g   since no one could earn money  even with 8 cents a watt.

and if the power wall is .35 watts diff maxes near 400g at 8 cents

so at a diff of 600g and free power the dragon keeps earning money.

So free power people with smaller rigs will never disappear.

 I made roi with s-1's purchased in may

3 for 1.15 btc     how did i do it.  power at an 84 % discount.  14 cents a kwatt  cost me   under 2.5 cents.   So I will never be fully pushed out of mining due to my power discount.

[xstr8guy]

What if the coin goes DOWN?

Can you profit buying the coin (shorting BTC is very difficult from what I understand) if the exchange rate drops?  A miner can.

Purchase miner for 0.75BTC.  Mine 0.375BTC.  BTC goes down to say $100.  You have 0.375BTC worth $37.50.
Don't purchase miner, keep the .75BTC.  BTC goes down to say $100.  You have 0.75BTC worth $75.00.

No matter what happens with the exchange rate of BTC or whether it goes up or down, 0.75BTC is always more than 0.375.  
At this point I simply refuse to believe that anyone can be this obtuse or ignorant.  You must be trolling.  

I thin it's YOU who is trolling...

BTC @ $600(USD) I Buy 1 coin
BTC @ $600(USD) I buy mining equipment for 1 coin

BTC @ $550(USD) My one coin is worth $550
BTC @ $550(USD) My mined amount can go OVER $550 because I can mine 1+BTC with it.

Are you so obtuse or ignorant that you cannot understand something this simple?

So you're finding the magical miner that makes more BTC than it's initial outlay.  Not one BFL device did that.  Not one Cointerra.  Not one Hashfast.  Not one Black Arrow.  None of the Avalon B3s.

THe first 2 Avalons, the first KNC Jups, and the first S1s did this.

Dragon, Rockminer, SP30s won't.

Good luck.

you are assuming quite a bit saying a dragon will not do roi in btc.  it could.   you have no idea of power cost for someone.  put in 1th with 0 power cost  it will get a lot of coins.
also there is a power wall for asics.  and it will be reached when it is reached growth will slow to a crawl.

if power wall is .2 watts diff will max near 600g   since no one could earn money  even with 8 cents a watt.

and if the power wall is .35 watts diff maxes near 400g at 8 cents

so at a diff of 600g and free power the dragon keeps earning money.

So free power people with smaller rigs will never disappear.

 I made roi with s-1's purchased in may

3 for 1.15 btc     how did i do it.  power at an 84 % discount.  14 cents a kwatt  cost me   under 2.5 cents.   So I will never be fully pushed out of mining due to my power discount.

Well you're obviously the exception to the rule. Maybe the OP was overstating it by saying it's "impossible". But the sentiment is still true for 99% of us.

[philipma1957]

What if the coin goes DOWN?

Can you profit buying the coin (shorting BTC is very difficult from what I understand) if the exchange rate drops?  A miner can.

Purchase miner for 0.75BTC.  Mine 0.375BTC.  BTC goes down to say $100.  You have 0.375BTC worth $37.50.
Don't purchase miner, keep the .75BTC.  BTC goes down to say $100.  You have 0.75BTC worth $75.00.

No matter what happens with the exchange rate of BTC or whether it goes up or down, 0.75BTC is always more than 0.375.  
At this point I simply refuse to believe that anyone can be this obtuse or ignorant.  You must be trolling.  

I thin it's YOU who is trolling...

BTC @ $600(USD) I Buy 1 coin
BTC @ $600(USD) I buy mining equipment for 1 coin

BTC @ $550(USD) My one coin is worth $550
BTC @ $550(USD) My mined amount can go OVER $550 because I can mine 1+BTC with it.

Are you so obtuse or ignorant that you cannot understand something this simple?

So you're finding the magical miner that makes more BTC than it's initial outlay.  Not one BFL device did that.  Not one Cointerra.  Not one Hashfast.  Not one Black Arrow.  None of the Avalon B3s.

THe first 2 Avalons, the first KNC Jups, and the first S1s did this.

Dragon, Rockminer, SP30s won't.

Good luck.

you are assuming quite a bit saying a dragon will not do roi in btc.  it could.   you have no idea of power cost for someone.  put in 1th with 0 power cost  it will get a lot of coins.
also there is a power wall for asics.  and it will be reached when it is reached growth will slow to a crawl.

if power wall is .2 watts diff will max near 600g   since no one could earn money  even with 8 cents a watt.

and if the power wall is .35 watts diff maxes near 400g at 8 cents

so at a diff of 600g and free power the dragon keeps earning money.

So free power people with smaller rigs will never disappear.

 I made roi with s-1's purchased in may

3 for 1.15 btc     how did i do it.  power at an 84 % discount.  14 cents a kwatt  cost me   under 2.5 cents.   So I will never be fully pushed out of mining due to my power discount.

Well you're obviously the exception to the rule. Maybe the OP was overstating it by saying it's "impossible". But the sentiment is still true for 99% of us.

yeah spot mining at home with a power discount will work.

 figure ways that the heat works for you not against you.

 make deals with people that have access to low power costs.   >>>>  big upside if you find them.. 

I have the one spot 14 cent power is discounted 84% down to 2.24 cents.

  I must not run more then 800 watts.
  I  must make the gear quiet.
 There are places that  s-3's will pay to run.
 I know of 2 developments near my home in Howell NJ that use electric power to heat their home. 

 Old school  baseboard heat  heating bills are 300 a month in small 4 room homes.
 I am attempting to have s-3's mining in one or two of these homes.  This could make nice money for me and the home owner's that I recruit.

[Bitsaurus]

What if the coin goes DOWN?

Can you profit buying the coin (shorting BTC is very difficult from what I understand) if the exchange rate drops?  A miner can.

Purchase miner for 0.75BTC.  Mine 0.375BTC.  BTC goes down to say $100.  You have 0.375BTC worth $37.50.
Don't purchase miner, keep the .75BTC.  BTC goes down to say $100.  You have 0.75BTC worth $75.00.

No matter what happens with the exchange rate of BTC or whether it goes up or down, 0.75BTC is always more than 0.375.  
At this point I simply refuse to believe that anyone can be this obtuse or ignorant.  You must be trolling.  

I thin it's YOU who is trolling...

BTC @ $600(USD) I Buy 1 coin
BTC @ $600(USD) I buy mining equipment for 1 coin

BTC @ $550(USD) My one coin is worth $550
BTC @ $550(USD) My mined amount can go OVER $550 because I can mine 1+BTC with it.

Are you so obtuse or ignorant that you cannot understand something this simple?

So you're finding the magical miner that makes more BTC than it's initial outlay.  Not one BFL device did that.  Not one Cointerra.  Not one Hashfast.  Not one Black Arrow.  None of the Avalon B3s.

THe first 2 Avalons, the first KNC Jups, and the first S1s did this.

Dragon, Rockminer, SP30s won't.

Good luck.

you are assuming quite a bit saying a dragon will not do roi in btc.  it could.   you have no idea of power cost for someone.  put in 1th with 0 power cost  it will get a lot of coins.
also there is a power wall for asics.  and it will be reached when it is reached growth will slow to a crawl.

if power wall is .2 watts diff will max near 600g   since no one could earn money  even with 8 cents a watt.

and if the power wall is .35 watts diff maxes near 400g at 8 cents

so at a diff of 600g and free power the dragon keeps earning money.

So free power people with smaller rigs will never disappear.

 I made roi with s-1's purchased in may

3 for 1.15 btc     how did i do it.  power at an 84 % discount.  14 cents a kwatt  cost me   under 2.5 cents.   So I will never be fully pushed out of mining due to my power discount.

Well you're obviously the exception to the rule. Maybe the OP was overstating it by saying it's "impossible". But the sentiment is still true for 99% of us.

yeah spot mining at home with a power discount will work.

 figure ways that the heat works for you not against you.

 make deals with people that have access to low power costs.   >>>>  big upside if you find them.. 

I have the one spot 14 cent power is discounted 84% down to 2.24 cents.

  I must not run more then 800 watts.
  I  must make the gear quiet.
 There are places that  s-3's will pay to run.
 I know of 2 developments near my home in Howell NJ that use electric power to heat their home. 

 Old school  baseboard heat  heating bills are 300 a month in small 4 room homes.
 I am attempting to have s-3's mining in one or two of these homes.  This could make nice money for me and the home owner's that I recruit.

While Antminers aren't known to catch fire, be careful with extending out your liability to other people's homes.  It's one thing to mine in your own house and keep an eye on your equipment.  It's another to have somebody else's home go up in flames due to a power supply failure - and that probably won't be covered by the homeowner policy.

[taipo]

The simple way to approach both the 'mine for btc for miners' camp, and the 'buy btc and hold' camp, is to do both. Miners need to put away a small percentage of BTC mined into cold storage wallets. No matter what new and improved ASICs you use, eventually they will be worthless, and eventually you will decide to move on from mining, may not be this year, but it will happen eventually. But what is a guarantee is that if you have some BTC put away in cold storage, it will make all of this worth your time in a few years time.

Or else you will be like those miners in 2010 - 2013 who blew hundreds, sometimes thousands of BTC on bullshit because it was only worth peanuts back then.

Save some of it. Blow the rest on more miners.

[xstr8guy]

The simple way to approach both the 'mine for btc for miners' camp, and the 'buy btc and hold' camp, is to do both. Miners need to put away a small percentage of BTC mined into cold storage wallets. No matter what new and improved ASICs you use, eventually they will be worthless, and eventually you will decide to move on from mining, may not be this year, but it will happen eventually. But what is a guarantee is that if you have some BTC put away in cold storage, it will make all of this worth your time in a few years time.

Or else you will be like those miners in 2010 - 2013 who blew hundreds, sometimes thousands of BTC on bullshit because it was only worth peanuts back then.

Save some of it. Blow the rest on more miners.

There's no guarantee that today's valuable BTC won't be worth peanuts again.  

Honestly, who actually buys BTC to then use them to make a purchase... other than to purchase BTC miners? Miners actually spend their BTC and keep the market healthy. What happens to the BTC market when there are no home miners left?

The "buy and hodlers" do just that... buy and hodl. Whereas miners actually aren't so precious with their stash. I truly believe that the collapse of home mining will be the cause of BTC's (and most alt-coin's) demise.

[philipma1957]

The simple way to approach both the 'mine for btc for miners' camp, and the 'buy btc and hold' camp, is to do both. Miners need to put away a small percentage of BTC mined into cold storage wallets. No matter what new and improved ASICs you use, eventually they will be worthless, and eventually you will decide to move on from mining, may not be this year, but it will happen eventually. But what is a guarantee is that if you have some BTC put away in cold storage, it will make all of this worth your time in a few years time.

Or else you will be like those miners in 2010 - 2013 who blew hundreds, sometimes thousands of BTC on bullshit because it was only worth peanuts back then.

Save some of it. Blow the rest on more miners.

There's no guarantee that today's valuable BTC won't be worth peanuts again.  

Honestly, who actually buys BTC to then use them to make a purchase... other than to purchase BTC miners? Miners actually spend their BTC and keep the market healthy. What happens to the BTC market when there are no home miners left?

The "buy and hodlers" do just that... buy and hodl. Whereas miners actually aren't so precious with their stash. I truly believe that the collapse of home mining will be the cause of BTC's (and most alt-coin's) demise.

I think home mining will never collapse. it will morph as people adapt to change.