Erdogan
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Activity: 1512
Merit: 1005
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July 08, 2014, 06:09:49 PM |
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If they are not for sale (that is don't circulate), they can be considered as lost.  No. Just because you own a car and don't want to sell it does not mean it is lost. Ditto for bitcoin, gold, silver, diamonds, real estate, your mind, or anything else. It just means they are not on the market. It really doesn't matter whether they are "lost" or "not on the market", or even who owns them. If 100% of the bitcoins are hoarded, then Bitcoin is dead. The value of hoarded bitcoins is determined by the value of the bitcoins in use. If no bitcoins are in use, then hoarded bitcoins have no value. It is hard to envision that absolutely all bitcoins are stashed away. We need only one in circulation. |
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peeveepee
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July 08, 2014, 06:20:54 PM |
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If they are not for sale (that is don't circulate), they can be considered as lost. No. Just because you own a car and don't want to sell it does not mean it is lost. Ditto for bitcoin, gold, silver, diamonds, real estate, your mind, or anything else. It just means they are not on the market. It really doesn't matter whether they are "lost" or "not on the market", or even who owns them. If 100% of the bitcoins are hoarded, then Bitcoin is dead. The value of hoarded bitcoins is determined by the value of the bitcoins in use. If no bitcoins are in use, then hoarded bitcoins have no value. It is hard to envision that absolutely all bitcoins are stashed away. We need only one in circulation. The assumption here is the price will self adjusted to artificially high level. I do not think people mind work that way. |
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cr1776
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Activity: 4032
Merit: 1301
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July 08, 2014, 06:25:00 PM |
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If they are not for sale (that is don't circulate), they can be considered as lost. No. Just because you own a car and don't want to sell it does not mean it is lost. Ditto for bitcoin, gold, silver, diamonds, real estate, your mind, or anything else. It just means they are not on the market. It really doesn't matter whether they are "lost" or "not on the market", or even who owns them. If 100% of the bitcoins are hoarded, then Bitcoin is dead. The value of hoarded bitcoins is determined by the value of the bitcoins in use. If no bitcoins are in use, then hoarded bitcoins have no value. Of course - I was responding to someone saying that bitcoins that are not on the market are the same as being lost which has nothing to do with having 100% of the coins being hoarded |
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cr1776
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July 08, 2014, 06:27:08 PM |
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If they are not for sale (that is don't circulate), they can be considered as lost. No. Just because you own a car and don't want to sell it does not mean it is lost. Ditto for bitcoin, gold, silver, diamonds, real estate or anything else. If they never come into circulation again, then yes, they are lost. And even if they do enter into circulation somewhere in the distant future, today they can be safely considered as lost too. Again, true, but that is changing the statement and not the same as saying that if I don't have my coins on the market right now, that they are lost. |
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Erdogan
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Activity: 1512
Merit: 1005
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July 08, 2014, 06:43:54 PM |
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If they are not for sale (that is don't circulate), they can be considered as lost. No. Just because you own a car and don't want to sell it does not mean it is lost. Ditto for bitcoin, gold, silver, diamonds, real estate, your mind, or anything else. It just means they are not on the market. It really doesn't matter whether they are "lost" or "not on the market", or even who owns them. If 100% of the bitcoins are hoarded, then Bitcoin is dead. The value of hoarded bitcoins is determined by the value of the bitcoins in use. If no bitcoins are in use, then hoarded bitcoins have no value. It is hard to envision that absolutely all bitcoins are stashed away. We need only one in circulation. The assumption here is the price will self adjusted to artificially high level. I do not think people mind work that way. And the signal from the elevated bitcoin price will lure those saved bitcoins out of their hideouts. That is how peoples minds work. tldr - all coins can not be saved for the long run. |
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Skele
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Activity: 224
Merit: 100
VocalPlatform.com
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July 08, 2014, 06:44:40 PM |
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If someone owns a majority of all the bitcoin, the function of it being a currency will be lost because no one can use it. Wouldn't the value of bitcoin actually falls?
If someone holds the majority of all the Bitcoin, remaining ones would be invaluable i guess, the high demand stay still |
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tee-rex
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July 08, 2014, 07:02:44 PM
Last edit: July 22, 2014, 12:39:07 PM by tee-rex |
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If they are not for sale (that is don't circulate), they can be considered as lost. No. Just because you own a car and don't want to sell it does not mean it is lost. Ditto for bitcoin, gold, silver, diamonds, real estate or anything else. If they never come into circulation again, then yes, they are lost. And even if they do enter into circulation somewhere in the distant future, today they can be safely considered as lost too. Again, true, but that is changing the statement and not the same as saying that if I don't have my coins on the market right now, that they are lost. I said that your coins could be considered as lost, as long as they wouldn't be in circulation. I changed the statement but didn't change the meaning. The effect is absolutely the same as if they were actually irrevocably lost. Until the moment they come into circulation again indeed. Then the effect is reversed to a degree. |
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CoinDiver
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July 08, 2014, 09:33:54 PM |
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Can we make an FAQ sticky for questions like this? It's an ignorant (no disrespect intended) question, that gets asked several times with every new crop of adopters.
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Erdogan
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Activity: 1512
Merit: 1005
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July 08, 2014, 09:35:01 PM |
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Can we make an FAQ sticky for questions like this? It's an ignorant (no disrespect intended) question, that gets asked several times with every new crop of adopters.
That's how we know that we have got a new batch of bitcoiners into the fold. |
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Leina
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July 08, 2014, 09:53:23 PM |
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Can we make an FAQ sticky for questions like this? It's an ignorant (no disrespect intended) question, that gets asked several times with every new crop of adopters.
Even if there is a FAQ, it is extremely unlikely that people will read it before posting question. |
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tee-rex
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July 09, 2014, 09:54:34 AM
Last edit: July 22, 2014, 12:36:28 PM by tee-rex |
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Can we make an FAQ sticky for questions like this? It's an ignorant (no disrespect intended) question, that gets asked several times with every new crop of adopters.
Even if there is a FAQ, it is extremely unlikely that people will read it before posting question. Threads with the most frequently asked questions (like this one) could be stickied in the Novice section of the forum (and new users should be allowed to write posts only there). |
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CoinDiver
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July 09, 2014, 07:45:20 PM |
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With a "Stupid Questions FAQ"... this thread would have gone on for 2 or maybe three posts, and died. Not 3 pages.
OP: What if someone wants to buy out Bitcoin?
Poster1: Read the FAQ, noob.
OP: Damn, it really was a stupid question. Thanks internets.
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Benjig
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July 09, 2014, 08:18:08 PM |
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With a "Stupid Questions FAQ"... this thread would have gone on for 2 or maybe three posts, and died. Not 3 pages.
OP: What if someone wants to buy out Bitcoin?
Poster1: Read the FAQ, noob.
OP: Damn, it really was a stupid question. Thanks internets.
Haha yea, it would be good if all the newbies read a little more the bitcoin wikipedia before creating new topics in sections that arent newbie. |
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Swordsoffreedom
Legendary
 Online
Activity: 2758
Merit: 1115
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
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July 09, 2014, 09:25:31 PM |
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Like acquire all 21 million coins. Then what?  Could not acquire all the supply, and there would need to be a lot of coins on the exchange to do it lol. 15 Million Presently so they would need to live till 2100+ to get to the full mintage  Lol a FAQ for this would be useful |
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qiuxiang
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July 10, 2014, 05:40:47 AM |
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It is a free market in which price is controlled by supply/demand. Someone who want to buy even 1 million BTC will drive price to the sky.
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theonewhowaskazu
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July 10, 2014, 05:52:46 AM |
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Like acquire all 21 million coins. Then what? If somebody bought all the bitcoins, then Bitcoin would become useless and the value of those 21 million bitcoins would be 0. Not really. Just don't tell anybody and lend out a few and spend a few while trading with yourself to make the price look really high. You don't even need all 21M. All you need to do is accumulate the coins from all the "weak hands" that would have dumped the coins between the current price and the price you're attempting to manipulate up to. Step 1: Spend about $500M manipulating the price up to $5k and buying up nearly all the coins Step 2: Bitcoin gets lot of attention for multiplying in value again. Step 3: Manipulate price down to $3.5K selling to anybody in your way (your mean price would likely be <$1000 anyway so its profit at this point) Step 4: Hopefully attract the attention of shorters and lend to them. Step 5: Quickly try to figure a way to find more people who you can lend to with reasonable collateral in any way possible. Step 6: Manipulate price up again short squeezing all the borrowers Step 7: ... Step 8: Enjoy acting like a central bank |
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tee-rex
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July 10, 2014, 05:59:40 AM
Last edit: July 22, 2014, 12:36:47 PM by tee-rex |
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Like acquire all 21 million coins. Then what? If somebody bought all the bitcoins, then Bitcoin would become useless and the value of those 21 million bitcoins would be 0. Not really. Just don't tell anybody and lend out a few and spend a few while trading with yourself to make the price look really high. You don't even need all 21M. All you need to do is accumulate the coins from all the "weak hands" that would have dumped the coins between the current price and the price you're attempting to manipulate up to. Step 1: Spend about $500M manipulating the price up to $5k and buying up nearly all the coins Step 2: Bitcoin gets lot of attention for multiplying in value again. Step 3: Manipulate price down to $3.5K selling to anybody in your way (your mean price would likely be <$1000 anyway so its profit at this point) Step 4: Hopefully attract the attention of shorters and lend to them. Step 5: Quickly try to figure a way to find more people who you can lend to with reasonable collateral in any way possible. Step 6: Manipulate price up again short squeezing all the borrowers Step 7: ... Step 8: Enjoy acting like a central bank This scheme is not sustainable (in fact, it is just a perverted financial pyramid)! If bitcoin is not used in everyday life (that is buying and selling goods and services in exchange for it), the bubble you thus create will soon pop up (remember tulips?). And then people will try to distance themselves from it as much as possible. |
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CoinsCoinsEverywhere
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July 10, 2014, 06:03:31 AM |
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It is a free market in which price is controlled by supply/demand. Someone who want to buy even 1 million BTC will drive price to the sky.
I was going to suggest that such a buyer could buy small amounts at a time. But then I realized that in order to accumulate 1M BTC in a reasonable amount of time, he/she would probably end up increasing the daily volume of multiple exchanges by 5-10% or more. That would certainly add a lot of buoyancy to the market. |
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tee-rex
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July 10, 2014, 06:15:43 AM
Last edit: July 22, 2014, 12:36:57 PM by tee-rex |
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It is a free market in which price is controlled by supply/demand. Someone who want to buy even 1 million BTC will drive price to the sky.
I was going to suggest that such a buyer could buy small amounts at a time. But then I realized that in order to accumulate 1M BTC in a reasonable amount of time, he/she would probably end up increasing the daily volume of multiple exchanges by 5-10% or more. That would certainly add a lot of buoyancy to the market. Provided there are 1M bitcoins on the market at all (to be able to buy out them all).  |
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