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Author Topic: First power bill for my 6 GH/s rig  (Read 9387 times)
DeathAndTaxes
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Gerald Davis


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March 13, 2012, 01:00:16 AM
 #41

An hour or two of downtime a day?  Fuck I am mad when I have an hour or two of downtime a month.

You are aware Lulea is in Sweden right?  No 100F summers w/ 90% humidity in Sweden last time I checked.  In related news I doubt the datacenter at the south pole research base needs a lot of phase change cooling either.
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March 13, 2012, 01:13:37 AM
 #42

An hour or two of downtime a day?  Fuck I am mad when I have an hour or two of downtime a month.

You are aware Lulea is in Sweden right?  No 100F summers w/ 90% humidity in Sweden last time I checked.  In related news I doubt the datacenter at the south pole research base needs a lot of phase change cooling either.

+1

you cant compare gaming to mining, playing even the most demanding game is nothing in comparison to overclocking and pushing your fan and gpu hashing away 24/7

these gpus are designed to game not to mine, you need to keep that in mind. Sure you can take a brand new card and beat the shit out of it in high temps and it will last awhile

try to buy a used card from someone on the marketplace part of the forum, something that served a good year mining 24/7 that thing is not going to last a month in 90degree heat and humidity without proper cooling
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March 13, 2012, 01:21:03 AM
 #43

Edit:  I missed where he said on the last page in this thread where he lives in a dry climate that gets to 100F and he had to use evap to control the temps. lol
Cool story "breh"...  except you filled in the part about the temps with your words instead of mine...  and the rigs are in a damn bedroom with window fans.  I could have easily shut the water pump off and continued to run the fan alone and the rigs would have been fine.  In fact, there were a few times where the girlfriend forgot to turn it on when she left for work (I shut it off at night and just used window fans).  The NOISE is what I was especially trying to manage since these are in my home.

Are you people

A - Jealous
B - Assholes to everyone you meet in "real life" too
or
C - Just completely ignorant?

I'm dumbfounded that I came in to a thread to simply correct misinformation with a decent attitude and I'm getting shit on by multiple people.  There's a difference between a friendly objective argument/debate of facts and immediately treating someone as if they are inferior/stupid.  I'm far from it.  It's like being bullied for being a nerd in high school or something...

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March 13, 2012, 01:21:27 AM
 #44

I save these threads that start out "First power bill for my 6 GH/s rig" and end up about volkswagen vans, spark plugs, thermodynamic theory and oil coolers...to read when I have had too much to drink.

Based on the cost/performance I would guess somewhere in the $0.10 per kW/h that the OP is paying. Anyone else have a guess if the OP doesn't share? Or did I miss the actual numbers? Smiley
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March 13, 2012, 01:30:52 AM
 #45

That article was more theory than proven practice.  They only had 5 servers...in a tent, using way less power than something loaded with GPU's.  Lets try to scale that up and see what happens.
[...]
And yes, it just so happens that I have had to design data centers in my career.  Including power and cooling for them!

Then, as a data center designer, could you kindly explain to me what, exactly, fails to "scale up" when using outside ambient air to cool?  Just how high of a server density do you need before "outside" experiences a significant increase in temperature?



Trust me, Google and Facebook have looked very hard and written great articles about it.

Yes, they have.  And you have apparently read them, because you specifically mention their impressive improvements on the boring ol' "swamp cooler".  So no doubt, you know all about Facebook's newest DC in Lulea, where they expect to need less than two weeks of supplemental active cooling per year.

Now compare the form factor and uptime demands of a hardcore miner against a Facebook datacenter - And try to tell me with a straight face that you don't see just the teensiest difference between a room full of mid-tower PCs loaded with GPUs that can go down for an hour or two in mid-afternoon on the hottest days of the year with no real harm done, vs row after row after freakin' row of 24core x 42U racks with a contractually guaranteed six-nines uptime?
The difference I see is that we are packing much more power draw (read: heat generation) into a smaller space than what has been pointed out in this thread.  Now you are comparing to 24 cores in a single chassis, but lets be more realistic and reference the MSDN tent article again.  Modern servers are awesome with how much CPU they can cram into a 2u/4u form factor, or whatever servers you have, but they are also extremely efficient on power use nowadays.  Also, the load on a typical server is very random and usually nowhere near 100%, unless you are running simulations or rendering Pixar movies or whatever.  We load to 100% 24/7 with fire breathing GPU's packed right next to each other.  What runs stable in that little tent they used cannot be compared to racks of GPU's the way we do it.  Pulling air in a window on one side of a house and exhausting it through a window on the other side where you mining operation is just cannot be done after a certain level of power draw/heat generation.
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March 13, 2012, 01:35:26 AM
 #46

Are you people

A - Jealous
B - Assholes to everyone you meet in "real life" too
or
C - Just completely ignorant?
B - Because when it comes to topics like this, I have way more experience than anyone I meet in a typical day.  Now when I talk to people who have big titles in the enterprise computing world, *that's* when I start to listen instead of school.
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March 13, 2012, 01:39:29 AM
 #47

Cool, bro. You can argue semantics and provide poor analogies.

How about you just explain how 'two window fans' provide an adequate volume of air to compensate for the delta-t of 40F. You do this for a living; I'd love to see the calculations.
It's a delta-t of 65.2F.  I don't run my air-cooled GPUs at 60C.  I'd like the fans to last more than a few months and I don't need the GPUs to keep running for decades.

I'm not doing your homework.  Judging by your previous posts, you'd turn mine into a conspiracy theory.  If you knew enough about the subject to understand the calculations one would post, you'd realize that a temperature differential of 65F isn't really THAT difficult to work with when you have a decent supply of fresh air.  I'm not showing you my birth certificate either.

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sveetsnelda
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March 13, 2012, 01:47:41 AM
 #48

A car with an air cooled engine would stop working during the summer if it became stuck in stop and go traffic.

Analogy fails.
Every small engine manufacturer and motorcycle manufacturer laughs in your general direction.

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sveetsnelda
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March 13, 2012, 01:53:16 AM
 #49

B - Because when it comes to topics like this, I have way more experience than anyone I meet in a typical day.  Now when I talk to people who have big titles in the enterprise computing world, *that's* when I start to listen instead of school.
I can relate to that.  However, this means that you should be a skeptic when you first meet someone and then transition to asshole when it's a guarantee that the person is a complete moron or unwilling to learn/listen.

Also, someone with a big title in the enterprise world definitely shouldn't be enough to "start listening".  I've worked with some serious morons who have "big titles" that would look great on paper, but any enthusiast/hobbyist would school him/her.

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March 13, 2012, 02:00:46 AM
 #50

Cool, bro. You can argue semantics and provide poor analogies.

How about you just explain how 'two window fans' provide an adequate volume of air to compensate for the delta-t of 40F. You do this for a living; I'd love to see the calculations.
It's a delta-t of 65.2F.  I don't run my air-cooled GPUs at 60C.  I'd like the fans to last more than a few months and I don't need the GPUs to keep running for decades.

I'm not doing your homework.  Judging by your previous posts, you'd turn mine into a conspiracy theory.  If you knew enough about the subject to understand the calculations one would post, you'd realize that a temperature differential of 65F isn't really THAT difficult to work with when you have a decent supply of fresh air.  I'm not showing you my birth certificate either.

I grow dope and fish for a living, bro. I have no idea what volume of cross-flow you would need to dissipate 21.5kW of heat with 100F ambient temperatures, nor how to calculate it.

I can say that I have dealt with ~25kw of indoor lighting, and it took a six-ton compressor working it's ass off and fans that no one on earth would call 'window fans' even when the intake temps were in the sixties(F).

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March 13, 2012, 02:09:00 AM
 #51

How about you just explain how 'two window fans' provide an adequate volume of air to compensate for the delta-t of 40F. You do this for a living; I'd love to see the calculations.

A typical window fan moves 2000-2500CFM.

The average bedroom measures a mere 86ft^2, or roughly 600ft^3 - Meaning a $20 window box fan will completely remove the air from the room every 15 seconds.

A typical woodstove puts out 3.4KWH/Kg, or somewhere around 10-15KW.  Mine does closer to 15.

And put bluntly, if I put a box fan in the room with my stove, with a window opposite it open to allow air in - I would freeze to death in the winter.  And I don't speculate on this, I've done it when I "burned in" my stove.  Two years ago, in late autumn, at 60F outside, I fired that sucker up to a good 700F with a fan blowing out the nearest window to out-gas the enamel... And it didn't make a damned bit of difference in the ambient temperature of my house.  Standing directly between the stove and the window, you could feel perhaps a +5F difference.

So, if your box will run, at ambient, at full load without cooking itself, for a mere 15-30 seconds - Really, the outdoor temperature will suffice to cool it.  A crappy Lasko window fan (and two open windows in an area you can conveniently close off from the rest of the house) will do the job juuuuust fine.



phorensic... Look, I don't think we substantially disagree on this, and might even respect each other IRL.  But 15-20KW of misused gaming rigs still doesn't come anywhere near datacenter loads, even if they may have a higher spatial density.  If you really want to extend the point to "miners" pulling half a megawatt, I'll concede the point.

I don't beg - If I do something to deserve your BTC, you can find my address on the invoice.  Wink
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March 13, 2012, 02:10:04 AM
 #52

Cool, bro. You can argue semantics and provide poor analogies.

How about you just explain how 'two window fans' provide an adequate volume of air to compensate for the delta-t of 40F. You do this for a living; I'd love to see the calculations.
It's a delta-t of 65.2F.  I don't run my air-cooled GPUs at 60C.  I'd like the fans to last more than a few months and I don't need the GPUs to keep running for decades.

I'm not doing your homework.  Judging by your previous posts, you'd turn mine into a conspiracy theory.  If you knew enough about the subject to understand the calculations one would post, you'd realize that a temperature differential of 65F isn't really THAT difficult to work with when you have a decent supply of fresh air.  I'm not showing you my birth certificate either.

I grow dope and fish for a living, bro. I have no idea what volume of cross-flow you would need to dissipate 21.5kW of heat with 100F ambient temperatures, nor how to calculate it.

I can say that I have dealt with ~25kw of indoor lighting, and it took a six-ton compressor working it's ass off and fans that no one on earth would call 'window fans' even when the intake temps were in the sixties(F).
Cannabis and fish together or separately?  I'm trying to get my aquaponics setup going right now, but it will just grow leafy greens and maybe peppers.  Hard to find edible fish to grow around here too, so I just have some hobby style fish.
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March 13, 2012, 02:13:12 AM
 #53

I grow dope and fish for a living, bro. I have no idea what volume of cross-flow you would need to dissipate 21.5kW of heat with 100F ambient temperatures, nor how to calculate it.

+1 I laughed so hard I spat a bit of my beer up... Grin
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March 13, 2012, 02:25:37 AM
 #54

lawl

but more on topic = Invest slowly and build your farm over time. Huge bitcoin mining investments usually fail (Going off past posts I've found here). Slowly working your way up helps you learn alot of things you'd never consider otherwise, plus if you work up over time it's much easier to deal with anything that might go wrong.

+1.
I setup my original cluster ALL wrong, result was barely 1.28Mhash/W, 2xFailed 5850, failed mobo, room like a sauna.

Now i'm looking towards to achieving over 4Mhash/W with newer hardware! Tongue

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Gerald Davis


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March 13, 2012, 02:34:48 AM
 #55

pla why do you keep talking about winter time?

How about turn on that stove when outside temp is 110F and try to keep indoor temps down with a window box fan.
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March 13, 2012, 02:42:03 AM
 #56

This thread is just so LOL.

Looking back at the post that started it...

Quote
You guys realize that 110 degrees Fahrenheit is "only" 43 Celsius, right?  That's still over 30 degrees lower than the temperature my GPUs run at.  With enough airflow, the heat will certainly still be removed so long as the heat isn't recirculated through the cards.

Note the bold part, which is key.  All you trolls coming in and talking about how you can't do it because 25kw produces so much heat blah blah blah are just looking like fools. 

The point was that with enough airflow you could cool a mining rig with 110F outside air.   Is anyone going to actually dispute this, or is this thread just going to be trolling followed by trolling? Most of the made up situations that are just straw-men arguments which don't follow the original statement.

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Gerald Davis


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March 13, 2012, 02:44:33 AM
 #57

The "enough airflow" as indicated was a pair of box fans.  So yes with enough airflow you could cool GPU with furnace air at 130F but you certainly aren't with a box fan.

I don't think you know what the word "trolling" means.
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March 13, 2012, 02:44:41 AM
 #58

Hey guys! I know how to keep my miners within a proper temperature at 100+ degrees Fahrenheit in the summer! I just need one of these per rig:



No actually fuck that, do you have any idea how many watts those things pull? And how loud? Damn.

Mining Rig Extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] Dead project is dead, all hail the coming of the mighty ASIC!
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March 13, 2012, 02:53:37 AM
 #59




Quote
Wood From my Basement = FREE
Various Pipes, Valves, & Pressure Gauges (Stolen from my neighbors basement) = FREE
Hamster Wheel = $2.99 (used salvation army)
Hamster = $4.99 (Pet Shop)

Currently its getting about 1 Mhash per bag of Hamster Food
but im looking into ways to make it more efficient
(rats, mice, racoons etc)

if you guys are so smart than tell me how I can keep my latest rig cool!

at first I was giving the hamster water and then I switched to gatorade

now when I stick a anal thermometer up his ass hes registering about 50c which was still cooler than my 5970 but id like to see it a little cooler
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March 13, 2012, 02:55:43 AM
 #60

There's that "objective discussion" again.  Smiley  They don't want to learn, they just want their wrong opinion to be right.

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