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Author Topic: First power bill for my 6 GH/s rig  (Read 9388 times)
chiropteran
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March 13, 2012, 05:56:48 PM
 #81

Just two window fans, allegedly.

An evaporative cooler is not a compressor AC. One fan per rig is circulating air within the space, the two window fans provide cross-ventilation.

You really can't see a difference between these two statements?  First you come out saying it's just two fans.  Now you say it's just two fans, plus another fan per rig, and an evaporation cooler.  

Slightly different situations, aren't they?  It's hard to take you seriously when you lie or mislead so much before I come in and correct you on the facts.

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chiropteran
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March 13, 2012, 06:02:48 PM
 #82

Congrats you winz the interents.

Thanks.  Now go back and read the thread.  I never said the things you say I said.  It was your post that got me into the thread, because you were posting some ridiculous crap about how the temperature delta between 110F and safe GPU operating temperature is too small.  After I destroyed that argument you went on to something else.  

You never said "you can't cool it because the delta is too small and you only have 15 fans plus an evaporation cooler it's not enough".  If you did, perhaps I would have stayed out, I can't argue with that because I don't know all the details.  

I do know there is nothing that makes it impossible to air cool a GPU down to 80C when the ambient temp is 43C.

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March 13, 2012, 06:05:11 PM
 #83

Just two window fans, allegedly.

An evaporative cooler is not a compressor AC. One fan per rig is circulating air within the space, the two window fans provide cross-ventilation.

You really can't see a difference between these two statements?  First you come out saying it's just two fans.  Now you say it's just two fans, plus another fan per rig, and an evaporation cooler.  

Slightly different situations, aren't they?  It's hard to take you seriously when you lie or mislead so much before I come in and correct you on the facts.

No, I cannot see the difference. Moving air within a confined space does not dissipate heat. Cross ventilation, however, does. See, those fans on each rig...they are a local phenomena, and the two window fans driving the cross-flow are the only things significantly affecting the dissipation of heat. Or are you arguing that pointing a fan at a 21.5kW heat source in a closed space will cool the space?

Just put me on ignore, brother. I am already the king of it.

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DeathAndTaxes
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Gerald Davis


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March 13, 2012, 06:17:03 PM
 #84

It was your post that got me into the thread, because you were posting some ridiculous crap about how the temperature delta between 110F and safe GPU operating temperature is too small.  After I destroyed that argument you went on to something else.  

I never claimed ANYTHING was impossible other than one can't cool 21KW of GPUs in a room with a pair of box fans in 100F ambient temps.
Nothing else.  I claimed the car analogy was bad because cars operate at temps that would destroy a GPU.  

See that is what a strawman is.  You construct a false argument and then "defeat it".
Your strawman: cooling GPU given an infinite amount of airflow in 110F is impossible (claim never made by anyone)
Your "victory": AH HA got you trolls.  Given ENOUGH airflow you can cool GPUs to x deg in 110F ambient temps.

Everyone else: Huh WTF?  Huh No really WTF?  Is he high or something? I don't know maybe he didn't take his meds today.

Try re-reading the thread.  Given you only NOW just realized what the claim being refuted was it is easy to see how you were off in your own universe making arguments and counterarguments on a topic only you were debating.

Quote
I do know there is nothing that makes it impossible to air cool a GPU down to 80C when the ambient temp is 43C.

OK.  I never said otherwise.  Starting to get the concept of a strawman?

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Gerald Davis


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March 13, 2012, 06:28:04 PM
 #85

You never said "you can't cool it because the delta is too small and you only have 15 fans plus an evaporation cooler it's not enough".  If you did, perhaps I would have stayed out, I can't argue with that because I don't know all the details. 

Um I did and others did and then they correct you and you kept going. 


The "enough airflow" as indicated was a pair of box fans.  So yes with enough airflow you could cool GPU with furnace air at 130F but you certainly aren't with a box fan.

Have a nice day. Smiley
chiropteran
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March 13, 2012, 06:56:37 PM
 #86

Um I did

FALSE.

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes
A long winded nothing and you missed the only point.

Car's cooling system can effectively dump the heatload because a car can operate at 200F.  That is 100F OVER ambient under worst case scenario.   If a car's cooling system had to keep car's internal temp at <140F then a car (as built today) would be insufficient to operate when outside temp is 100F+.  If a car could operate effectively at 300F it would need a SMALLER cooling system (relative to heat load) to keep temps <300F when ambient is 100F.

Car = 200F operating temp = 100F Delta T to ambient*
GPU = <140F operating temp = <40F Delta T to ambient*

On edit:
* further and likely unecessary clarificaiton because sveetsnelda is either an idiot or a troll ...
Code:
ambient in this case would be 100F input air time. The input air time he indicates is sufficient to cool his farm.  Yes it may also be cooler parts of the year but your idiotic trolling aside it wasn't your claim that you could cool the GPU with outside air when airtime if 0F your claim was you could cool them when outside airtime was 100F.

The point of the 100F vs 40F is that given 100F AMBIENT AIR TEMP it is much easier to cool something (easier as in surface area and airflow requires) when you only need to keep it at 100F OVER AMBIENT.  It is much harder (as in amount of surface area and airflow required) to keep operating temps at only 40F OVER AMBIENT.  Yes sveetsnelda I know what over ambient means.  Maybe you forgot but your claims was you could cool GPU with 100F input air.  Not sure why it is sooooooooooooooo complicated but if your are cooling something and the T-In is 100F then that is your ambient temperature.  You can't cool anything below ambient without phase change so that becomes the baseline.   A perfect cooling system could keep card temp at Ambient.  Such a system would be massive though so the Delta over ambient determines the amount of cooling (in terms of surface area, and airflow) necessary.  40 Delta over ambient is harder to achieve than a Delta of 100F over ambient for the same heat load.

The fact that a car can operate (at 100F over ambient) doesn't prove anything.  A nuclear reactor can continue to operate at 600F over ambient that doesn't mean a water cooled rig that keeps a GPU at 600F over ambient will be effective.  Why do reactors run at 600F?  Because the cooling system can be smaller/cheaper/more efficient than if it needed to operate at 500F, or 200F (car), or 140F (GPU).

40F Delta T is not much to work with.  The smaller the Delta T the more volume necessary to transfer the same amount of thermal energy and the same surface area.  If you can keep an entire farm stable 24/7 with 100F input air temps well you are better than most.  My guess is you 100F temps are with low humidity? Still your stupid car analogy is just that ... stupid.

Please show me where you are talking about his specific post.  You can't because you weren't.  You go on and on about how it's hard to cool things when it's hot out.  I think we all get the point, nobody said it isn't harder.  The point is you can do it.

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March 13, 2012, 07:55:36 PM
 #87

Once upon a time, there were six 5970s calling this little house home, their poor master couldn't afford a server room; (not) surprisingly, they all survived a N400 hot summer, including a few 100+ days.

Actually they are still living there, all live and well.


rjk
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March 13, 2012, 07:58:36 PM
 #88

Once upon a time, there were six 5970s calling this little house home, their poor master couldn't afford a server room; (not) surprisingly, they all survived a N400 hot summer, including a few 100+ days.

Actually they are still living there, all live and well.

http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m586/bitcool5/IMAG0193.jpg

Epic win. No problems with rain/humidity?

Mining Rig Extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] Dead project is dead, all hail the coming of the mighty ASIC!
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Gerald Davis


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March 13, 2012, 08:03:32 PM
 #89

FALSE.

<Snipped long post by D&T>

Please show me where you are talking about his specific post.  You can't because you weren't.  You go on and on about how it's hard to cool things when it's hot out.  I think we all get the point, nobody said it isn't harder.  The point is you can do it.


Thanks for proving the point.  I said it is more difficult.  I said it takes a larger surface area.  I said it takes higher airflow.  Nowhere did i say it was impossible.

Your blatant and obvious lie is that I said it was impossible.  Maybe you are confused but "impossible" was your strawman.  You made it up just to defeat it and beat the "trolls".  YOU claimed impossible so you could prove it wrong.
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March 13, 2012, 08:16:15 PM
 #90

Once upon a time, there were six 5970s calling this little house home, their poor master couldn't afford a server room; (not) surprisingly, they all survived a N400 hot summer, including a few 100+ days.

Actually they are still living there, all live and well.

http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m586/bitcool5/IMAG0193.jpg

Epic win. No problems with rain/humidity?
There are 3 Cool Master full towers inside, raindrop is not easy to get inside. Humidity hasn't proven to be a problem.
One tower shut itself down a few times in hot afternoons, possibly caused by PSU overheat, so I converted it to a part-time worker.
Other two didn't have the issue.
RandyFolds
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March 13, 2012, 08:31:03 PM
 #91

Once upon a time, there were six 5970s calling this little house home, their poor master couldn't afford a server room; (not) surprisingly, they all survived a N400 hot summer, including a few 100+ days.

Actually they are still living there, all live and well.

http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m586/bitcool5/IMAG0193.jpg


But what about the poor dog, shoved out into that brutal heat?

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bitcool
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March 13, 2012, 08:43:10 PM
 #92

But what about the poor dog, shoved out into that brutal heat?
He gets special allowance working as a security guard and lives next door  Cheesy
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March 13, 2012, 08:44:28 PM
 #93

So your name is a lie then?

Those bits aren't cool.  More like bithot. 
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March 13, 2012, 09:04:27 PM
 #94

So your name is a lie then?

Those bits aren't cool.  More like bithot. 
lol. Depending on seasons and time of the day, I can change from bitcold to bithell.
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March 13, 2012, 09:28:46 PM
 #95

Once upon a time, there were six 5970s calling this little house home, their poor master couldn't afford a server room; (not) surprisingly, they all survived a N400 hot summer, including a few 100+ days.

Actually they are still living there, all live and well.




Epic! ^_^

http://PulsedMedia.com - Semidedicated rTorrent seedboxes
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March 13, 2012, 09:49:10 PM
 #96

You should paint the roof of that dog house white to better reflect the sun. Better yet: Cover it with aluminum foil Smiley

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March 14, 2012, 12:31:08 AM
 #97

Cool, bro. You can argue semantics and provide poor analogies.

How about you just explain how 'two window fans' provide an adequate volume of air to compensate for the delta-t of 40F. You do this for a living; I'd love to see the calculations.
It's a delta-t of 65.2F.  I don't run my air-cooled GPUs at 60C.  I'd like the fans to last more than a few months and I don't need the GPUs to keep running for decades.

I'm not doing your homework.  Judging by your previous posts, you'd turn mine into a conspiracy theory.  If you knew enough about the subject to understand the calculations one would post, you'd realize that a temperature differential of 65F isn't really THAT difficult to work with when you have a decent supply of fresh air.  I'm not showing you my birth certificate either.

I grow dope and fish for a living, bro. I have no idea what volume of cross-flow you would need to dissipate 21.5kW of heat with 100F ambient temperatures, nor how to calculate it.

I can say that I have dealt with ~25kw of indoor lighting, and it took a six-ton compressor working it's ass off and fans that no one on earth would call 'window fans' even when the intake temps were in the sixties(F).
Cannabis and fish together or separately?  I'm trying to get my aquaponics setup going right now, but it will just grow leafy greens and maybe peppers.  Hard to find edible fish to grow around here too, so I just have some hobby style fish.
I have set up a cannabis aquaponics system, but it's too finicky, and requires too much space. Peppers get tall and kinda bulky. You will get a lot more productivity sticking with herbs and greens. Where do you live that you can't get edible fish? Tilapia are pretty easy to snag except in Florida, and they are completely fucking indestructible.
I want to grow tilapia but they require a license here in California.  I think it's cool you actually did a cannabis aquaponics system tho!
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March 14, 2012, 12:49:07 AM
 #98

No way! Tilapia require a permit there? Hit up chinatown and grab some live tilapia or catfish. No one will hassle you about permits there, and I am positive you can get both in Los Angeles. The only trouble is going to be finding females if you want to breed them.

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March 14, 2012, 02:27:04 AM
 #99

my god

did you really just go out in your back yard and put a box fan in your neighbors dog house to win an argument on line?

I will pay 5 BTC bounty for photo proof there is six 5970s mining inside there.

I have to see it.



bitcool
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March 14, 2012, 04:11:23 AM
 #100

my god

did you really just go out in your back yard and put a box fan in your neighbors dog house to win an argument on line?

I will pay 5 BTC bounty for photo proof there is six 5970s mining inside there.

I have to see it.

Negative. I was just an onlooker before decided to post the picture. Although I was a proponent of "open air operations" in a similar thread last May: 
   https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=9621.msg141748#msg141748

That being said, do you really want to pay 5BTC to see 3 boxes sitting in a dog house? I can tell you they fit perfectly.
 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000QJETYS/ref=oh_o04_s00_i00_details

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