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Author Topic: [ANN] Automatic MtGox Investing with BitcoinBuilder.com  (Read 10927 times)
joshbb
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March 08, 2012, 06:20:53 AM
 #1

Hey there!

I'm Josh Jones, one of the co-founders of DreamHost, and although I'm new to posting on the forums, I've been lurking for a while, and have been interested in Bitcoin for about 2 years now (I even found a block on my home theater netbook back in 2010)!

Anyway, I've been buying coins on mtgox for a while now, and all the delays and manual clicking around were pretty frustrating! So, I set up a system to do what I like to do with my other investments: automatic dollar-cost-averaging!

The benefits of this type of (long term) investing are laid out well in this article:

http://www.automaticfinances.com/dollar-cost-averaging-and-the-benefits-of-automatic-investing/

I'll summarize:

* By investing a fixed dollar amount, when prices are low, you buy more, when prices are high, you buy less... resulting in a lower average cost per bitcoin.

 * You don't have to think about it or do anything once you've set it up. Timing the market is hard and usually doesn't work!

 * Spending a set amount per time period coincides nicely with how most people receive money: a set amount every two weeks!

Now, after running it for a few weeks for myself, I'm opening up the system for anybody to use..

https://www.bitcoinbuilder.com/

There's no cost (apart from the typical mtgox/dwolla fees they charge you), and no bitcoins are stored with me (you just make an API key with "trade" rights only and enter it on the site). Just set up a schedule of how much, what currency, how often, and when to start buying bitcoin on the site, and come back in 20 years a millionaire!  Wink

Soooooo.... please check it out, give it a try, and let me know any comments/concerns/congratulations!

Thanks!

Josh Jones
https://www.bitcoinbuilder.com/
Trade "Real" BTC for "Gox" BTC on a real exchange!
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March 08, 2012, 07:13:25 AM
 #2

Nifty, reckon you can do one for cryptoexchange? Smiley
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March 08, 2012, 07:27:56 AM
 #3

Hmm, well I reckon I could!

I'll update here when it's ready... it may be a little while though!

Thanks!

Josh Jones
https://www.bitcoinbuilder.com/
Trade "Real" BTC for "Gox" BTC on a real exchange!
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March 08, 2012, 07:33:48 AM
 #4

suspicious website is suspicious.


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kiba
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March 08, 2012, 08:08:29 AM
 #5

Cool! I hope that mean dreamhost will accept bitcoin soon.

joshbb
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March 08, 2012, 09:00:22 PM
 #6

I hope so too!

I had suggested it a couple of years ago, but nobody got around to doing it back then (when it would have been like 1,000BTC/mo, dang it!)... and now I'm sort of in "retirement" and don't really have so much day-to-day influence. But I keep suggesting/pushing it....

suspicious website is suspicious.

A truer truism has never been commented!

Josh Jones
https://www.bitcoinbuilder.com/
Trade "Real" BTC for "Gox" BTC on a real exchange!
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March 08, 2012, 09:20:55 PM
 #7

Hey there!

I'm Josh Jones, one of the co-founders of DreamHost, and although I'm new to posting on the forums, I've been lurking for a while, and have been interested in Bitcoin for about 2 years now (I even found a block on my home theater netbook back in 2010)!

Anyway, I've been buying coins on mtgox for a while now, and all the delays and manual clicking around were pretty frustrating! So, I set up a system to do what I like to do with my other investments: automatic dollar-cost-averaging!

The benefits of this type of (long term) investing are laid out well in this article:

http://www.automaticfinances.com/dollar-cost-averaging-and-the-benefits-of-automatic-investing/

I'll summarize:

* By investing a fixed dollar amount, when prices are low, you buy more, when prices are high, you buy less... resulting in a lower average cost per bitcoin.

 * You don't have to think about it or do anything once you've set it up. Timing the market is hard and usually doesn't work!

 * Spending a set amount per time period coincides nicely with how most people receive money: a set amount every two weeks!

Now, after running it for a few weeks for myself, I'm opening up the system for anybody to use..

https://www.bitcoinbuilder.com/

There's no cost (apart from the typical mtgox/dwolla fees they charge you), and no bitcoins are stored with me (you just make an API key with "trade" rights only and enter it on the site). Just set up a schedule of how much, what currency, how often, and when to start buying bitcoin on the site, and come back in 20 years a millionaire!  Wink

Soooooo.... please check it out, give it a try, and let me know any comments/concerns/congratulations!

Thanks!

Cool Smiley Thank you for bringing this free project to the community. I had a project years ago hosted with DreamHost Smiley

I will try your platform soon and let you know my thoughts.

Thanks!
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March 08, 2012, 10:54:47 PM
 #8

I hope so too!

It would be awesome to have a business like DreamHost accept Bitcoin!

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kangasbros
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March 09, 2012, 01:34:49 PM
 #9

One feature request: defining the price of the purchase. Because price is sometimes fluctuating heavily, this could be useful.

It could be a simple dropdown, where there is a choice of selections, for example:

- Market price (default)
- Highest Bid
- 24h average

What do you think?

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March 09, 2012, 09:01:01 PM
 #10

I'm already switching my clients to Dreamhost from GoDaddy in protest of SOPA.  I'm glad to discover the cofounder also supports Bitcoin.

Also I like the concept of this service.  Before trusting the site with an API key though, is there any way the community could verify Josh's identity?  Please understand the healthy need for suspicion.

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March 09, 2012, 09:24:00 PM
 #11

So what's the difference between this and the Gox Trade Bot for Chrome? Are both using the EMA system, or is this sort of a rainy day system?

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/iejmifigokhpcgpmoacllcdiceicmejb
joshbb
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March 09, 2012, 10:15:27 PM
 #12

One feature request: defining the price of the purchase. Because price is sometimes fluctuating heavily, this could be useful.

It could be a simple dropdown, where there is a choice of selections, for example:

- Market price (default)
- Highest Bid
- 24h average

What do you think?

Hmm, although it's sort of against the whole point of dollar-cost-averaging, that could be easily added. One thing, I don't think there's a difference between highest bid and market price... it's my understanding that placing a market order on mtgox will just match you up with the highest unfilled bid? One risk of doing 24h average is your order may NEVER get filled (if the 24hr moving average is the market bottom).. which would sort of suck that you didn't buy because you happened to be at the alltime low! But, let me know with those considerations if anybody would still like that option and I'll add it to the feature request list!


I'm already switching my clients to Dreamhost from GoDaddy in protest of SOPA.  I'm glad to discover the cofounder also supports Bitcoin.

Also I like the concept of this service.  Before trusting the site with an API key though, is there any way the community could verify Josh's identity?  Please understand the healthy need for suspicion.

Nice, yeah.. GoDaddy BOOOOOOO! Smiley

Maged actually already confirmed my account as the Josh I say I am in order to get whitelisted, maybe he could reply to this thread confirming?

I did try to make the site as risk-free as possible by only requiring the trade API, so WORST case I guess the site could continuously buy and sell all your mtgox coins until their transaction fees ate them all up. Which admittedly would be pretty bad!

So what's the difference between this and the Gox Trade Bot for Chrome? Are both using the EMA system, or is this sort of a rainy day system?

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/iejmifigokhpcgpmoacllcdiceicmejb

I hadn't seen that, interesting!

Here are some differences:

The chrome bot tries to do a momentum-based time-the-market system, buying and selling. Bitcoinbuilder does simple automatic dollar-cost-averaging, which just always buys the same ($) amount of bitcoin at whatever time schedule you set, regardless of the market.

The chrome bot works with a fixed amount of money/btc; since bitcoinbuilder only buys, you will need to keep adding money to your mtgox account.

The chrome bot requires your web browser to be open to work; bitcoinbuilder.com runs as a web service all the time.

The chrome bot runs every hour on the hour your web browser is open; bitcoinbuilder allows you to set any schedule (from once an hour on up) and start it in the future (up to one year in advance).

Josh Jones
https://www.bitcoinbuilder.com/
Trade "Real" BTC for "Gox" BTC on a real exchange!
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March 09, 2012, 11:20:56 PM
 #13

One feature request: defining the price of the purchase. Because price is sometimes fluctuating heavily, this could be useful.

It could be a simple dropdown, where there is a choice of selections, for example:

- Market price (default)
- Highest Bid
- 24h average

What do you think?

Hmm, although it's sort of against the whole point of dollar-cost-averaging, that could be easily added. One thing, I don't think there's a difference between highest bid and market price... it's my understanding that placing a market order on mtgox will just match you up with the highest unfilled bid? One risk of doing 24h average is your order may NEVER get filled (if the 24hr moving average is the market bottom).. which would sort of suck that you didn't buy because you happened to be at the alltime low! But, let me know with those considerations if anybody would still like that option and I'll add it to the feature request list!

Well, actually I use my own script, so I don't really need that feature for myself. But people have different investing strategies, so I think that additional possible strategies would be good. But it is your service, so you decide Smiley

Edit: The highest bid is lower than the market price. Executing at market price usually means lowest ask price, which is higher than highest bid. This kind of market activity might lower the spread.

It could be something like "advanced options". I just think that there are lots of people, who would like to have their own "bot", but don't have the coding skills/time etc., so this kind of service would be very useful for them.

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March 10, 2012, 07:59:18 PM
 #14

Ah cool, gotcha about the highest bid vs lowest ask, dur. I guess that's like saying "I'm only willing to pay as much as somebody else is willing to pay." as opposed to the market order which is "I'm willing to pay the lowest somebody is willing to sell it for." The spreads are just so close on mtgox I was like "same thing!" But definitely not, especially if I expand this to other exchanges that aren't as liquid!

Thanks for the feedback, I'll work on adding this stuff as soon as I can get to it!

Josh Jones
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Trade "Real" BTC for "Gox" BTC on a real exchange!
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March 11, 2012, 07:38:41 AM
 #15

I wanted to report that it seems to be working great so far.

Thanks Josh.

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April 23, 2012, 10:12:17 AM
 #16

Any news about this service? Any new features in planning?

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July 18, 2012, 06:30:09 PM
 #17

Yes, finally!

New feature news!

1. Bitcoin Builder now supports the automatic SELLING of bitcoins (Bitcoin Unwinder?) ... perfect for miners who want to steadily convert their pool earnings into the fiat of their choice, but don't want to have to manually log in and worry about timing the market!

2. Even though it goes against the whole point of Dollar Cost Averaging, you can now choose a price other than "market price" for your automatic schedule (of buying or selling).

The additional options when buying are: highest bid, 24 hour low, 24 hour average, 24 hour volume-weighted average.
The additional options when selling are: lowest ask, 24 hour high, 24 hour average, 24 hour volume-weighted average.

Please note, choosing any of these options may result in your order not executing immediately, and therefore sitting in your mt.gox order book, possibly forever, or possibly getting executed at some later date when you lease suspect it! Use with caution!

3. The site has been slightly re-skinned to be more mobile-happy and better overall (thanks to twitter bootstrap)!

Check it out, https://www.bitcoinbuilder.com/

josh!

Josh Jones
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Trade "Real" BTC for "Gox" BTC on a real exchange!
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July 18, 2012, 06:37:37 PM
 #18

Hey Josh,

Really nice site you put together!

I have to ask, do you have any proof you are Josh Jones?

We have seen our fair share of scams, and since your taking clients MtGox API keys, thats a huge security risk.

Can you prove your identity?

Thanks

Charlie

Bitcoin pioneer. An apostle of Satoshi Nakamoto. A crusader for a new, better, tech-driven society. A dreamer.

More about me: http://CharlieShrem.com
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July 18, 2012, 06:41:25 PM
 #19

I'll just note that the API key is only to be granted "trade" rights, and not "withdraw" or anything else. Suppose Josh could send Charlie an email from his Dreamhost address, perhaps.

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July 18, 2012, 06:49:07 PM
 #20

Heya!

Yeah, maged had the same question when I first applied for whitelisting. I verified with him (you could pm him to check). Here's a copy and paste of our PM exchange:

Quote
Maged
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Your whitelist request
« Sent to: joshbb on: March 07, 2012, 04:35:05 PM »
Quote  Reply  Delete 
You'll have to forgive me for not automatically whitelisting you, but when a site has a claim like "I'm Josh Jones, co-founder of DreamHost Web Hosting", I have to verify it.

Please send an email from your @dreamhost.com address to Maged@******** or provide me with other evidence that you are who you say you are.
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Re: Your whitelist request
« Sent to: joshbb on: March 07, 2012, 04:57:38 PM »
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Thanks! I checked out the headers and it looks good! An administrator will whitelist you shortly.
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Josh Jones
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Trade "Real" BTC for "Gox" BTC on a real exchange!
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