Ron Paul on Bitcoin: "The dollar has lost 97 percent of its value..."

[jonald_fyookball]

ok, how long has the fiat pound been in circulation?

[bluemeanie1]

To my knowledge it was called the 'pound' (short for pound sterling) precisely because it had no silver backing.

It's somewhat akin to calling snack foods 'cheeze doodles' even though they have no cheese in them(note spelling ).

-bm

[ShakyhandsBTCer]

Hasn't the british pound been around though, for hundreds of years?

Something to ponder: why is it named the 'pound'?

Good question.

A pound of sterling silver.  So a pound of silver today would cost about $340 ($21.25/oz* 16 oz).  The pound is not worth $340 US dollars. :-)

still, it seems the pound is still around, so people that say "every fiat dies" aren't being totally accurate.

Just no. The pound is no longer a pound. It is now a fiat currency. Accordingly, the fact that there is still something called the pound in monetary use, cannot be used as an example of a fiat currency lasting a long time.

Exactly. Calling it the same name does not mean it is related to the original currency in any important way. Just another soon to be worthless fiat currency. 

Inflation in the UK has caused the british pound to lose value verses the value of silver. It is still the same currency, as if you had a bank note from several years ago you could still tender it for payment today.

[cr1776]

Hasn't the british pound been around though, for hundreds of years?

Something to ponder: why is it named the 'pound'?

Good question.

A pound of sterling silver.  So a pound of silver today would cost about $340 ($21.25/oz* 16 oz).  The pound is not worth $340 US dollars. :-)

still, it seems the pound is still around, so people that say "every fiat dies" aren't being totally accurate.

Just no. The pound is no longer a pound. It is now a fiat currency. Accordingly, the fact that there is still something called the pound in monetary use, cannot be used as an example of a fiat currency lasting a long time.

Exactly. Calling it the same name does not mean it is related to the original currency in any important way. Just another soon to be worthless fiat currency. 

Inflation in the UK has caused the british pound to lose value verses the value of silver. It is still the same currency, as if you had a bank note from several years ago you could still tender it for payment today.

But when it stands for one pound of sterling silver, and then doesn't and is worth 0.5% of a pound of silver, then is it really the same currency?  If I photocopy a GBP note, is it still a pound?

[FandangledGizmo]

Hasn't the british pound been around though, for hundreds of years?

Something to ponder: why is it named the 'pound'?

Good question.

A pound of sterling silver.  So a pound of silver today would cost about $340 ($21.25/oz* 16 oz).  The pound is not worth $340 US dollars. :-)

still, it seems the pound is still around, so people that say "every fiat dies" aren't being totally accurate.

Just no. The pound is no longer a pound. It is now a fiat currency. Accordingly, the fact that there is still something called the pound in monetary use, cannot be used as an example of a fiat currency lasting a long time.

Exactly. Calling it the same name does not mean it is related to the original currency in any important way. Just another soon to be worthless fiat currency. 

It's what a lot of people think. They think 'Oh the pounds been around for ages' but NO, The pound used to backed by real money - originally a pound of silver & since then it's backing has progressively decreased. Around 1940 it was pegged to the $ but at that time the $ was still backed by gold.

It was only in 1971 when Nixon said 'Oops we don't really have the gold' that the $ & by extension all currencies pegged/linked to it became just paper.

The $ has had a good run, the average life expectancy for a paper currency is only 27 years & the $'s been going for 45.

But it's been partly backed by the 'petrodollar' meaning a lot of oil producers agree only to sell their oil for $ thereby keeping demand for $ high. However when Saddam Hussein decided to sell Oil for Euros they had to go attack him to keep everyone else in line, same with Libya, he was about to start selling Oil for a new gold backed currency he was creating. It's getting a bit messy there though, trying to install and keep $ favourable leaders in power as well as create believable excuses to attack them.

If you want to know why bankers & Government love fiat currency it's because controlling the money supply and rates let them extract the wealth from the population. (See how their fortunes used to be tied directly to the private sector) till after the fiat transition followed by deregulation in the seventies...

[ShakyhandsBTCer]

Hasn't the british pound been around though, for hundreds of years?

Something to ponder: why is it named the 'pound'?

Good question.

A pound of sterling silver.  So a pound of silver today would cost about $340 ($21.25/oz* 16 oz).  The pound is not worth $340 US dollars. :-)

still, it seems the pound is still around, so people that say "every fiat dies" aren't being totally accurate.

Just no. The pound is no longer a pound. It is now a fiat currency. Accordingly, the fact that there is still something called the pound in monetary use, cannot be used as an example of a fiat currency lasting a long time.

Exactly. Calling it the same name does not mean it is related to the original currency in any important way. Just another soon to be worthless fiat currency. 

Inflation in the UK has caused the british pound to lose value verses the value of silver. It is still the same currency, as if you had a bank note from several years ago you could still tender it for payment today.

But when it stands for one pound of sterling silver, and then doesn't and is worth 0.5% of a pound of silver, then is it really the same currency?  If I photocopy a GBP note, is it still a pound?

If you photocopy a GBP note then it would be a worthless counterfit. Like any currency inflation has decreased the value of the British pound. If you were to measure a the british pound (or any other major currency that has been around for 200+ years) by what it buys in terms of standard of living then inflation has not taken as bad of an effect. In other words, if you were to live the same way that one lived 100 years ago, then it would not take that much more money to have the same living standards.

[jubalix]

FRB isteslf is not bad, as it serves as a mechanism to organize capital.

However the allocation of FRB dollars is very bad, because banks have a monopoly and as we have seen are taxpayer backed.

So the generally siphon of all value from you to them, and are not exposed to market forces/diciplien, rather you are on their behalf.

FRB by central banks lacks any form of competition.

To put it one way, if fiat money was valuable, you should be allowed to counterfeit printed money perfectly,

why cant you, because this would inflate the currency, but that's good as it shows the paper is worthless. Go ahead try and counterfeit BTC.

counterfeiting is a public good because is exposes the currency and economic system to market forces

BTC has actual value even in that.

[FandangledGizmo]

Hasn't the british pound been around though, for hundreds of years?

Something to ponder: why is it named the 'pound'?

Good question.

A pound of sterling silver.  So a pound of silver today would cost about $340 ($21.25/oz* 16 oz).  The pound is not worth $340 US dollars. :-)

still, it seems the pound is still around, so people that say "every fiat dies" aren't being totally accurate.

Just no. The pound is no longer a pound. It is now a fiat currency. Accordingly, the fact that there is still something called the pound in monetary use, cannot be used as an example of a fiat currency lasting a long time.

Exactly. Calling it the same name does not mean it is related to the original currency in any important way. Just another soon to be worthless fiat currency. 

Inflation in the UK has caused the british pound to lose value verses the value of silver. It is still the same currency, as if you had a bank note from several years ago you could still tender it for payment today.

But when it stands for one pound of sterling silver, and then doesn't and is worth 0.5% of a pound of silver, then is it really the same currency?  If I photocopy a GBP note, is it still a pound?

If you photocopy a GBP note then it would be a worthless counterfit. Like any currency inflation has decreased the value of the British pound. If you were to measure a the british pound (or any other major currency that has been around for 200+ years) by what it buys in terms of standard of living then inflation has not taken as bad of an effect. In other words, if you were to live the same way that one lived 100 years ago, then it would not take that much more money to have the same living standards.

The problem is when it has no value. All paper currencies become completely worthless within an average of 27 years.

So a currency can survive hundreds of years if it becomes a receipt that is redeemable for less and less amount real money.

But once it stops being backed by real money at all, a 'fiat' currency it's game over, completely worthless within 50 years.

[jubalix]

Hasn't the british pound been around though, for hundreds of years?

Something to ponder: why is it named the 'pound'?

Good question.

A pound of sterling silver.  So a pound of silver today would cost about $340 ($21.25/oz* 16 oz).  The pound is not worth $340 US dollars. :-)

still, it seems the pound is still around, so people that say "every fiat dies" aren't being totally accurate.

Just no. The pound is no longer a pound. It is now a fiat currency. Accordingly, the fact that there is still something called the pound in monetary use, cannot be used as an example of a fiat currency lasting a long time.

Exactly. Calling it the same name does not mean it is related to the original currency in any important way. Just another soon to be worthless fiat currency. 

Inflation in the UK has caused the british pound to lose value verses the value of silver. It is still the same currency, as if you had a bank note from several years ago you could still tender it for payment today.

But when it stands for one pound of sterling silver, and then doesn't and is worth 0.5% of a pound of silver, then is it really the same currency?  If I photocopy a GBP note, is it still a pound?

If you photocopy a GBP note then it would be a worthless counterfit. Like any currency inflation has decreased the value of the British pound. If you were to measure a the british pound (or any other major currency that has been around for 200+ years) by what it buys in terms of standard of living then inflation has not taken as bad of an effect. In other words, if you were to live the same way that one lived 100 years ago, then it would not take that much more money to have the same living standards.

The problem is when it has no value. All paper currencies become completely worthless within an average of 27 years.

So a currency can survive hundreds of years if it becomes a receipt that is redeemable for less and less amount real money.

But once it stops being backed by real money at all, a 'fiat' currency it's game over, completely worthless within 50 years.

having said that no one keeps there saveing in fiat over 30 years, they go into property or shares.

I think there is some confusion between real wealth and day to day transactional needs.

When you start earning over a certain amount you soon realise that you will be going backwards by leaving your savings in FIAT. So you are forced to invest esle where.

This is something some BTC'rs miss they are the same as LTC on GOX, eg BTC on amazom/ebay whatevs.

The real wealth is not there, its in currency swaps, balancing the nightly, interbank reconciliation, buying houses, project fiance etc, of about minimum $100M amounts, and more routinely $1+ billion amounts.

This is why things like peercoin will likely take the market.

You know how BTC'rs struggle to communicate to the FIAT masses...

Its like this trying to communicate to BTC'rs and most other crypto's about where the value really is.

This is largely because most are used to small transactions, eg buying everyday needs.

Most don't deal with capital raising and debt markets, interbank issues and currency swaps.

the closet most get to a big purchase is a house.

[TaunSew]

FRB isteslf is not bad, as it serves as a mechanism to organize capital.

However the allocation of FRB dollars is very bad, because banks have a monopoly and as we have seen are taxpayer backed.

So the generally siphon of all value from you to them, and are not exposed to market forces/diciplien, rather you are on their behalf.

FRB by central banks lacks any form of competition.

To put it one way, if fiat money was valuable, you should be allowed to counterfeit printed money perfectly,

why cant you, because this would inflate the currency, but that's good as it shows the paper is worthless. Go ahead try and counterfeit BTC.

counterfeiting is a public good because is exposes the currency and economic system to market forces

BTC has actual value even in that.

I think the one error here is that it's difficult to pass off a good counterfeit bill ~ especially the high tech new bills we are seeing in some countries.

On the other hand - it's incredibly easy to counterfeit money if you are a bank.  All the bank executive has to do is type "+$10.000" on the keyboard and lend that money out to people as mortgages and credit.  Yes all that money will swap hands but in the end of the day most of it remains electronic / digital.  Bank runs can only happen if everyone tries to withdraw.

Hey it happened in Bulgaria but Bulgaria is a former Communist country which hasn't experienced decades of bank panics and doesn't have rules to stop them.

Occupied Wallstreet tried to incite bank runs across America?  What happened?  Banks reacted quicker than the protesters by issuing banking holidays, withdrawal freeze or lowered the withdrawal limits to a few bucks.  Banks have had decades to figure this stuff out and they know how to stop bank runs.

Fractional reserve banking is here to stay until it's made illegal.

[FandangledGizmo]

When you start earning over a certain amount you soon realise that you will be going backwards by leaving your savings in FIAT. So you are forced to invest esle where.

At this end this stage of the fiat game you are not going backwards leaving your savings in Fiat you are insane.

Many Western countries have rapidly agreed on measures for handling Bail-Ins (Deposit confiscations) in the last two years, Cyprus was just a test case, you're next..

[qwerty555]

Hasn't the british pound been around though, for hundreds of years?

Something to ponder: why is it named the 'pound'?

Good question.

A pound of sterling silver.  So a pound of silver today would cost about $340 ($21.25/oz* 16 oz).  The pound is not worth $340 US dollars. :-)

still, it seems the pound is still around, so people that say "every fiat dies" aren't being totally accurate.

The most successful and longest lasting fiat and a notable exception..the pound..is arguably in the "waiting to die" phase





 Founded in 1694, the British pound Sterling is the oldest fiat currency in existence. At a ripe old age of 317 years it must be considered a highly successful fiat currency. However, success is relative. The British pound was defined as 12 ounces of silver, so it's worth less than 1/200 or 0.5% of its original value. In other words, the most successful long standing currency in existence has lost 99.5% of its value.

[FandangledGizmo]

Hasn't the british pound been around though, for hundreds of years?

Something to ponder: why is it named the 'pound'?

Good question.

A pound of sterling silver.  So a pound of silver today would cost about $340 ($21.25/oz* 16 oz).  The pound is not worth $340 US dollars. :-)

still, it seems the pound is still around, so people that say "every fiat dies" aren't being totally accurate.

The most successful and longest lasting fiat and a notable exception..the pound..is arguably in the "waiting to die" phase





 Founded in 1694, the British pound Sterling is the oldest fiat currency in existence. At a ripe old age of 317 years it must be considered a highly successful fiat currency. However, success is relative. The British pound was defined as 12 ounces of silver, so it's worth less than 1/200 or 0.5% of its original value. In other words, the most successful long standing currency in existence has lost 99.5% of its value.

But the pound has only been free-floating worthless paper since 1971, before that it had some backing or was pegged to a currency that did.

So I'm using this definition -  

- State-issued money which is neither convertible by law to any other thing, nor fixed in value in terms of any objective standard.[3]
- Intrinsically valueless money used as money because of government decree.[4]

Using those two definitions (Which is what our currencies are now) no currency has lasted more than fifty years and there have been more than 3000 attempts at it throughout history.

With no limits on their spending (The currency they create doesn't have to be tied to anything that is limited like Gold/Silver/Bitcoin) usually either governments/banks run up huge debts that cause the currency to collapse.

Luckily that's not happening this time  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgNb83Y0CoY

[qwerty555]

Hasn't the british pound been around though, for hundreds of years?

Something to ponder: why is it named the 'pound'?

Good question.

A pound of sterling silver.  So a pound of silver today would cost about $340 ($21.25/oz* 16 oz).  The pound is not worth $340 US dollars. :-)

still, it seems the pound is still around, so people that say "every fiat dies" aren't being totally accurate.

The most successful and longest lasting fiat and a notable exception..the pound..is arguably in the "waiting to die" phase





 Founded in 1694, the British pound Sterling is the oldest fiat currency in existence. At a ripe old age of 317 years it must be considered a highly successful fiat currency. However, success is relative. The British pound was defined as 12 ounces of silver, so it's worth less than 1/200 or 0.5% of its original value. In other words, the most successful long standing currency in existence has lost 99.5% of its value.

But the pound has only been free-floating worthless paper since 1971, before that it had some backing or was pegged to a currency that did.

So I'm using this definition -  

- State-issued money which is neither convertible by law to any other thing, nor fixed in value in terms of any objective standard.[3]
- Intrinsically valueless money used as money because of government decree.[4]

Using those two definitions (Which is what our currencies are now) no currency has lasted more than fifty years and there have been more than 3000 attempts at it throughout history.

With no limits on their spending (The currency they create doesn't have to be tied to anything that is limited like Gold/Silver/Bitcoin) usually either governments/banks run up huge debts that cause the currency to collapse.

Luckily that's not happening this time  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgNb83Y0CoY

I agree..pound is the same fiat for 300 years in name only..it has been altered a number of times eg going on the gold standard..coming off the gold standard...decimalization etc. and may therefore fall into the "monetarily reformed" category

 Twenty percent failed through hyperinflation, 21% were destroyed by war, 12% destroyed by independence, 24% were monetarily reformed, and 23% are still in circulation approaching one of the other outcomes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monetary_reform

Here is an interesting paper on it for those that wish to delve further into the topic

http://www.jamesrobertson.com/book/monetaryreform.pdf

So - as well as national currencies, continental currencies and a
global currency - we should be encouraging currencies issued by
local government authorities for local circulation, and non-official
payment systems set up by local community groups (like
LETSystems), local social service groups (like Time Banks), and
local business groups (like the WIR co-operative in Switzerland).
In technical terms, whereas paper money could have been
accepted as the new basis for the monetary system in Attwood's
time, electronic money can now make it convenient for us to use
different currencies for different purposes

[FandangledGizmo]

Hasn't the british pound been around though, for hundreds of years?

Something to ponder: why is it named the 'pound'?

Good question.

A pound of sterling silver.  So a pound of silver today would cost about $340 ($21.25/oz* 16 oz).  The pound is not worth $340 US dollars. :-)

still, it seems the pound is still around, so people that say "every fiat dies" aren't being totally accurate.

The most successful and longest lasting fiat and a notable exception..the pound..is arguably in the "waiting to die" phase





 Founded in 1694, the British pound Sterling is the oldest fiat currency in existence. At a ripe old age of 317 years it must be considered a highly successful fiat currency. However, success is relative. The British pound was defined as 12 ounces of silver, so it's worth less than 1/200 or 0.5% of its original value. In other words, the most successful long standing currency in existence has lost 99.5% of its value.

But the pound has only been free-floating worthless paper since 1971, before that it had some backing or was pegged to a currency that did.

So I'm using this definition -  

- State-issued money which is neither convertible by law to any other thing, nor fixed in value in terms of any objective standard.[3]
- Intrinsically valueless money used as money because of government decree.[4]

Using those two definitions (Which is what our currencies are now) no currency has lasted more than fifty years and there have been more than 3000 attempts at it throughout history.

With no limits on their spending (The currency they create doesn't have to be tied to anything that is limited like Gold/Silver/Bitcoin) usually either governments/banks run up huge debts that cause the currency to collapse.

Luckily that's not happening this time  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgNb83Y0CoY

I agree..pound is the same fiat for 300 years in name only..it has been altered a number of times eg going on the gold standard..coming off the gold standard...decimalization etc. and may therefore fall into the "monetarily reformed" category

 Twenty percent failed through hyperinflation, 21% were destroyed by war, 12% destroyed by independence, 24% were monetarily reformed, and 23% are still in circulation approaching one of the other outcomes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monetary_reform

Yeah fair enough.

Also people these days don't realise the value of an asset backed (Gold/Silver/Bitcoin) Currency with no central bank.

In the 100 years before the Federal Reserve got control of the American money supply.
The value of the $ actually doubled! Meaning your 1$ bought you twice as much as it did a hundreds years before!
It's only since the Federal Reserve that $1 from only buys you $0.04 of the stuff it bought you 100 years ago.

Lots of people think inflation is inevitable or good but America had deflation 1800-1900 and became the greatest most profitable country in the world in the hundred years since they've become the most indebted and the $ has lost nearly all it's value.

[Jubettarr]

The dollar has lost 97 percent of its value. The end stages of a paper currency always goes very rapidly. Although its been gradual for these hundred years there is going to be a day that I expect there could be a panic out of the dollar, then the Bitcoin issue is going to be a much bigger issue." - He called it the Bitcon issue..

[Riniaiokl]

The dollar has lost 97 percent of its value. The end stages of a paper currency always goes very rapidly. Although its been gradual for these hundred years there is going to be a day that I expect there could be a panic out of the dollar, then the Bitcoin issue is going to be a much bigger issue." - He called it the Bitcon issue..

The word "issue" has traditionally been used to mean "topic" and not "problem."

[666uazan]

The dollar has lost 97 percent of its value. The end stages of a paper currency always goes very rapidly. Although its been gradual for these hundred years there is going to be a day that I expect there could be a panic out of the dollar, then the Bitcoin issue is going to be a much bigger issue." - He called it the Bitcon issue..

The word "issue" has traditionally been used to mean "topic" and not "problem."

The problem is related to fiat losing it's value because of bitcoin- he's historically and obviously bullish on alt-currencies, crypto or otherwise.

[Tenarlty]

The dollar has lost 97 percent of its value. The end stages of a paper currency always goes very rapidly. Although its been gradual for these hundred years there is going to be a day that I expect there could be a panic out of the dollar, then the Bitcoin issue is going to be a much bigger issue." - He called it the Bitcon issue..

The word "issue" has traditionally been used to mean "topic" and not "problem."

The problem is related to fiat losing it's value because of bitcoin- he's historically and obviously bullish on alt-currencies, crypto or otherwise.

Is it a problem?

[Tenarlty]

He called it the Bitcon issue..

Well, we do have an issue with cons in this community.