[ANN] Bitshares AGS crowd funding - *2* days until close

[FriendsOfBitshares]

Down to less than 2 days 6 hours remaining.


We'd would like to inform everyone of the approaching close of the Bitshares AGS (or Angelshares) crowd-funding. The longest round of crowd-funding for any crypto-equity related project to date is coming to a close with approximately two weeks remaining.  There is great benefit for people who donate to AGS right now.

The term "angel" in this context originally comes from Broadway, where it was used to describe wealthy patrons who provided money for theatrical productions. We think everyone should have a chance to be a patron angel! BitShares AGS, represent a way to gain a stake in this new and exciting industry without mining coins. The donations to the AGS fund support the research, development and creation of the BitShares technology. Those who support the fund are given public credit as 10,000 AGS shares , proportional to the amount donated. AGS donations started on January 1, 2014 and run for 199 days. BitShares AGS is a public way to document who has donated to help build the industry. Donations are used to help build software tools and a powerful ecosystem to help developers launch their new digital autonomous companies. In return, 3rd party developers may choose to give shares in their new companies as “tips” to those donors. They do this primarily as a targeted promotion to attract the support of people who are likely to contribute to their new ventures in a variety of helpful ways.

For those who do not know about Bitshares - Bitshares is a technology supported by next generation entrepreneurs, investors, and developers with a common interest in finding free market solutions by leveraging the power of globally decentralized consensus and decision making. Bitshares looks to extend the innovation of the blockchain to all industries that rely upon the internet to provide their services. Whether its banking, stock exchanges, lotteries, voting, music, auctions or many others, a digital public ledger allows for the creation of distributed autonomous companies (or DACs) that provide better quality services at a fraction of the cost incurred by their more traditional, centralized counterparts. The advent of DACs ushers in a new paradigm in organizational structure in which companies can run without any human management and under the control of an incorruptible set of business rules. These rules are encoded in publicly auditable open source software distributed across the computers of the companies’ shareholders, who effortlessly secure the company from arbitrary control. Bitshares does for business what bitcoin did for money by utilizing distributed consensus technology to create companies that are inherently global, transparent, trustworthy, efficient and most importantly profitable.  

Info on AGS - http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/BitShares_AGS

Bitshares Wiki - http://wiki.bitshares.org/

Forum -http://bitsharestalk.org/

http://wiki.bitshares.org/images/5/5a/DPOS-infographic.jpg

[CLains]

BitShares X IOU's trading on bter.com and btc38.com! Pre-release market cap of BitShares X looks to be hovering around 25 million.

[FriendsOfBitshares]

BitShares X IOU's trading on bter.com and btc38.com! Pre-release market cap of BitShares X looks to be hovering around 25 million.

25 million is quite a bit for an unreleased product.

The nice thing about these chains that aren't POW is that there isn't constant downward pressure by mining inflation which puts the currency in the hands of people who are not likely to be long term investors.

[lordoliver]

I find it somehow weird, why you guys set the snapshot to february, where ags was quasi not existent.
The nice thing is, that I had my pts at that time on an exchange, because I didn't know it better...
and the market cap of bitshares x is higher as pts? FUCK!

[FandangledGizmo]

I find it somehow weird, why you guys set the snapshot to february, where ags was quasi not existent.
The nice thing is, that I had my pts at that time on an exchange, because I didn't know it better...
and the market cap of bitshares x is higher as pts? FUCK!

AGS had already been running for two months at that stage. I think a few thousand BTC and a few hundred thousand PTS were donated before the snapshot. http://www1.agsexplorer.com/

But yeah originally the first release of BitShares X was planned for late March I believe. That was before Daniel Larimer came up with DPOS - Delegated Proof of Stake, which then had to be created...

and the market cap of bitshares x is higher as pts? FUCK!

Yeah PTS is low as its price decreased after the snapshot as you'd expect. Also they haven't announced any major snapshots since, as they were still working on DPOS but as soon as it's up and running which should be this month. We can expect quite a few.

And BitShares X is pretty awesome so hence the high price - but it's actually still good value as it is valued at +- what people were paying for it before the Feb 28 snapshot.

[megashira1]

I find it somehow weird, why you guys set the snapshot to february, where ags was quasi not existent.
The nice thing is, that I had my pts at that time on an exchange, because I didn't know it better...
and the market cap of bitshares x is higher as pts? FUCK!

AGS had already been running for two months at that stage. I think a few thousand BTC and a few hundred thousand PTS were donated before the snapshot. http://www1.agsexplorer.com/

But yeah originally the first release of BitShares X was planned for late March I believe. That was before Daniel Larimer came up with DPOS - Delegated Proof of Stake, which then had to be created...

and the market cap of bitshares x is higher as pts? FUCK!

Yeah PTS is low as its price decreased after the snapshot as you'd expect. Also they haven't announced any major snapshots since, as they were still working on DPOS but as soon as it's up and running which should be this month. We can expect quite a few.

And BitShares X is pretty awesome so hence the high price - but it's actually still good value as it is valued at +- what people were paying for it before the Feb 28 snapshot.

What figure are you using for avg. price people paid for BTSX via PTS?

[clout]

I find it somehow weird, why you guys set the snapshot to february, where ags was quasi not existent.
The nice thing is, that I had my pts at that time on an exchange, because I didn't know it better...
and the market cap of bitshares x is higher as pts? FUCK!

Chinese exchanges such as bter and btc38 are honoring the snapshot for those individuals that had pts on the exchange during the snapshot. I believe that other exchanges will do the same.

Also the snapshot was set to February 28th because originally bitshares x was going to be implemented on a proof of work blockchain. The scope of the project has since changed and bitshares uses a variant of proof of stake that is more efficient than any payment network in the industry, including ripple. In retrospect it would have been better to have a later snapshot, but the realization of fundamental design issues made it imperative to delay the launch of bitshares x.

[Fernandez]

I find it somehow weird, why you guys set the snapshot to february, where ags was quasi not existent.
The nice thing is, that I had my pts at that time on an exchange, because I didn't know it better...
and the market cap of bitshares x is higher as pts? FUCK!

Quite simple, they rushed to award themselves all. After that they continue building and keep taking money promising other inferior products. Basically greedy developers like that of Ethereum.

Aren't you surprised why suddenly over the last two months they started promoting here while before it was all silent.

[clout]

I find it somehow weird, why you guys set the snapshot to february, where ags was quasi not existent.
The nice thing is, that I had my pts at that time on an exchange, because I didn't know it better...
and the market cap of bitshares x is higher as pts? FUCK!

Quite simple, they rushed to award themselves all. After that they continue building and keep taking money promising other inferior products. Basically greedy developers like that of Ethereum.

Aren't you surprised why suddenly over the last two months they started promoting here while before it was all silent.

Before it was silent because the developers were slaving a way developing a superior product to anything that is currently on the market. Please see http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Why_choose_Bitshares%3F. All the features are currently being testing in public beta test network. Bitshares X should be launching within a month. You can still buy shares in Bitshares X from bter and btc38 at a very cheap price relative to what people originally paid for shares in the DAC. The reason we are promoting right now is so that people like yourself don't complain later on that Bitshares was a closed crowdfunding when it has been publicly announced for the past year. (It is important to note that bitshares is not really an altcoin and has its own forum and community, the most substantial of any in the crypto currency space after bitcoin. Most of the discussions pertaining to bitshares occur on bitsharestalk.org not hear at BTT)

[Fernandez]

I find it somehow weird, why you guys set the snapshot to february, where ags was quasi not existent.
The nice thing is, that I had my pts at that time on an exchange, because I didn't know it better...
and the market cap of bitshares x is higher as pts? FUCK!

Quite simple, they rushed to award themselves all. After that they continue building and keep taking money promising other inferior products. Basically greedy developers like that of Ethereum.

Aren't you surprised why suddenly over the last two months they started promoting here while before it was all silent.

Before it was silent because the developers were slaving a way developing a superior product to anything that is currently on the market. Please see http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Why_choose_Bitshares%3F. All the features are currently being testing in public beta test network. Bitshares X should be launching within a month. You can still buy shares in Bitshares X from bter and btc38 at a very cheap price relative to what people originally paid for shares in the DAC. The reason we are promoting right now is so that people like yourself don't complain later on that Bitshares was a closed crowdfunding when it has been publicly announced for the past year. (It is important to note that bitshares is not really an altcoin and has its own forum and community, the most substantial of any in the crypto currency space after bitcoin. Most of the discussions pertaining to bitshares occur on bitsharestalk.org not hear at BTT)

Your developers are slaving away and yet you can promote now, but not before you distributed IOUs in Bitshares Bank? Why did you even award it 5 months before even if you are only testing it now? That rings a lot of bells and looks like a smart move from you guys to pocket maximum profit.

[clout]

I find it somehow weird, why you guys set the snapshot to february, where ags was quasi not existent.
The nice thing is, that I had my pts at that time on an exchange, because I didn't know it better...
and the market cap of bitshares x is higher as pts? FUCK!

Quite simple, they rushed to award themselves all. After that they continue building and keep taking money promising other inferior products. Basically greedy developers like that of Ethereum.

Aren't you surprised why suddenly over the last two months they started promoting here while before it was all silent.

Before it was silent because the developers were slaving a way developing a superior product to anything that is currently on the market. Please see http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Why_choose_Bitshares%3F. All the features are currently being testing in public beta test network. Bitshares X should be launching within a month. You can still buy shares in Bitshares X from bter and btc38 at a very cheap price relative to what people originally paid for shares in the DAC. The reason we are promoting right now is so that people like yourself don't complain later on that Bitshares was a closed crowdfunding when it has been publicly announced for the past year. (It is important to note that bitshares is not really an altcoin and has its own forum and community, the most substantial of any in the crypto currency space after bitcoin. Most of the discussions pertaining to bitshares occur on bitsharestalk.org not hear at BTT)

Your developers are slaving away and yet you can promote now, but not before you distributed IOUs in Bitshares Bank? Why did you even award it 5 months before even if you are only testing it now? That rings a lot of bells and looks like a smart move from you guys to pocket maximum profit.

Proof of concept was tested before the crowdfunding process. The point of crowdfunding is to support the development of the product. Why would it make sense to start crowdfund once the product is ready for beta testing? It takes a lot of time to get to that point. BitShares PTS and BitShares AGS were both advertised on bitcointalk. I do not see how you can complain, when you can purchase stake in BitShares X at a cheaper price than many ppl paid for their shares during the initial crowdfunding and run up to the February 28th snapshot. You're not making a logical argument.

[mr smith]

BitShares X IOU's trading on bter.com and btc38.com! Pre-release market cap of BitShares X looks to be hovering around 25 million.

Make that 54 million lol

[gtd6320]

I find it somehow weird, why you guys set the snapshot to february, where ags was quasi not existent.
The nice thing is, that I had my pts at that time on an exchange, because I didn't know it better...
and the market cap of bitshares x is higher as pts? FUCK!

Quite simple, they rushed to award themselves all. After that they continue building and keep taking money promising other inferior products. Basically greedy developers like that of Ethereum.

Aren't you surprised why suddenly over the last two months they started promoting here while before it was all silent.

Before it was silent because the developers were slaving a way developing a superior product to anything that is currently on the market. Please see http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Why_choose_Bitshares%3F. All the features are currently being testing in public beta test network. Bitshares X should be launching within a month. You can still buy shares in Bitshares X from bter and btc38 at a very cheap price relative to what people originally paid for shares in the DAC. The reason we are promoting right now is so that people like yourself don't complain later on that Bitshares was a closed crowdfunding when it has been publicly announced for the past year. (It is important to note that bitshares is not really an altcoin and has its own forum and community, the most substantial of any in the crypto currency space after bitcoin. Most of the discussions pertaining to bitshares occur on bitsharestalk.org not hear at BTT)

Your developers are slaving away and yet you can promote now, but not before you distributed IOUs in Bitshares Bank? Why did you even award it 5 months before even if you are only testing it now? That rings a lot of bells and looks like a smart move from you guys to pocket maximum profit.

Proof of concept was tested before the crowdfunding process. The point of crowdfunding is to support the development of the product. Why would it make sense to start crowdfund once the product is ready for beta testing? It takes a lot of time to get to that point. BitShares PTS and BitShares AGS were both advertised on bitcointalk. I do not see how you can complain, when you can purchase stake in BitShares X at a cheaper price than many ppl paid for their shares during the initial crowdfunding and run up to the February 28th snapshot. You're not making a logical argument.

+1 got it

[FandangledGizmo]

I find it somehow weird, why you guys set the snapshot to february, where ags was quasi not existent.
The nice thing is, that I had my pts at that time on an exchange, because I didn't know it better...
and the market cap of bitshares x is higher as pts? FUCK!

Quite simple, they rushed to award themselves all. After that they continue building and keep taking money promising other inferior products. Basically greedy developers like that of Ethereum.

Aren't you surprised why suddenly over the last two months they started promoting here while before it was all silent.

Before it was silent because the developers were slaving a way developing a superior product to anything that is currently on the market. Please see http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Why_choose_Bitshares%3F. All the features are currently being testing in public beta test network. Bitshares X should be launching within a month. You can still buy shares in Bitshares X from bter and btc38 at a very cheap price relative to what people originally paid for shares in the DAC. The reason we are promoting right now is so that people like yourself don't complain later on that Bitshares was a closed crowdfunding when it has been publicly announced for the past year. (It is important to note that bitshares is not really an altcoin and has its own forum and community, the most substantial of any in the crypto currency space after bitcoin. Most of the discussions pertaining to bitshares occur on bitsharestalk.org not hear at BTT)

Your developers are slaving away and yet you can promote now, but not before you distributed IOUs in Bitshares Bank? Why did you even award it 5 months before even if you are only testing it now? That rings a lot of bells and looks like a smart move from you guys to pocket maximum profit.

Proof of concept was tested before the crowdfunding process. The point of crowdfunding is to support the development of the product. Why would it make sense to start crowdfund once the product is ready for beta testing? It takes a lot of time to get to that point. BitShares PTS and BitShares AGS were both advertised on bitcointalk. I do not see how you can complain, when you can purchase stake in BitShares X at a cheaper price than many ppl paid for their shares during the initial crowdfunding and run up to the February 28th snapshot. You're not making a logical argument.

+1 got it

Yeah, as others have said

1. You could get shares in the BitShares X snapshot by holding PTS or Donating to AGS at the time of the snapshot (28/02/14)
PTS had already been mining a while and AGS had been running nearly 60 days. It raised a few thousand BTC so it was one of the most public, longest & successful allotments to date.

2. It started pre-trading on BTC38 & bter under the symbol 'BTSX' in the last week.
All the threads have been promoting that. Price is up today but even at $30 Mil CAP it is still the circa the same price you could get it for at the end of the snapshot in Feb.
 

[FandangledGizmo]

One of the main reasons for the delay was developing the DPOS blockchains for BitShares X to run on...




If you want to understand better why other systems can't compete with it..

Green is Income   Yellow is Profit  Blue is Cost

Assuming a fixed validation cost per transaction and a fixed fee per transaction, there is a limit to the amount of decentralization that can take place. 

Assuming the validation cost exactly equals the fee a network is completely centralized and can only afford one validator.
Assuming the fee is 100x the cost of validation then the network can support 100 validators.

What you will quickly see is that systems like Nxt and Peercoin must have very excessive fees if they would like to maintain the illusion that everyone can be a validator and earn fees at scale.    What this means for Nxt / Peercoin is that anyone with less than 1% stake cannot validate profitably unless their fees are higher than our DPOS chain. 

So if these chains assume 100 is to centralized and start promoting they have 1000 validators then their fees must be 10x.  If they grew to be the size of bitcoin ($10 B) then only those with $1M worth of coin could validate profitably and most would consider that an elite club.    If they reduce the minimum stake to be a validator to $1000, then their fees would be 10,000 times higher than our fees.   

Now we assume that every one with less than the amount required to validate doesn't participate and we assume a "reasonable" distribution of wealth, you will quickly see that unless they have insane fees, there will only be a handful of people with enough stake to validate profitably. 

What we can conclude from this is that the only way for POS to work is to delegate it.  In the case of Nxt they can pool their stake by some means and ultimately this will end up like DPOS prior to approval voting with a variable number of delegates.   Those doing the delegating wouldn't actually receive any income like you see with mining pools because the validation expenses will be consuming the vast majority of the transaction fees.

End result is that decentralization has a cost proportional to the number of validators and that costs do not disappear.  At scale these costs will centralize any system that does not support delegation.   We should design this kind of centralization in from the beginning so that it can be properly managed and controlled by the users instead of evolving in some adhoc manner as an unintended consequence.

 

[FriendsOfBitshares]

Guys and gals, there are 4 days left to get your donations in.  Spread them out to maximize AGS.  See if there is better value in PTS with all the new donations coming in on the BTC side.  

If nothing else, donate $10 and have a small stake to play with.  Bitshares is fun and once DACs start being released, you'll have a stake in all that agree with the Social Consensus. It is a novel thing, once in a life time.  Don't miss out.http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/BitShares_Social_Consensus

[coinpump]

I sent 12.9245 PTS to my online wallet http://pts-bitshares.com
Txid: 2646dcaa67ee8421e1407935b33d13b726e8a9af9089d3b589e7ba328bb1d52f

I made 2 transactions that are still processing:
   -5   0.01   2014-07-15 08:24:46   PaNGELmZgzRQCKeEKM6ifgTqNkC4ceiAWw   Processing
    -7.8   0.01   2014-07-16 00:31:30   Pacy5Uhn6W1LkENiJgE3kGeFYRJYXiTwaZ   Processing

Is pts-bitshares.com a scam website ?

That prevents me from donating my 12 PTS to Bitshares.

Can somebody help ?
I already sent them message, but to no effect.
It's last day already and it looks like these 2 transactions are not going to make it.

[testz]

I sent 12.9245 PTS to my online wallet http://pts-bitshares.com
Txid: 2646dcaa67ee8421e1407935b33d13b726e8a9af9089d3b589e7ba328bb1d52f

I made 2 transactions that are still processing:
   -5   0.01   2014-07-15 08:24:46   PaNGELmZgzRQCKeEKM6ifgTqNkC4ceiAWw   Processing
    -7.8   0.01   2014-07-16 00:31:30   Pacy5Uhn6W1LkENiJgE3kGeFYRJYXiTwaZ   Processing

Is pts-bitshares.com a scam website ?

That prevents me from donating my 12 PTS to Bitshares.

Can somebody help ?
I already sent them message, but to no effect.
It's last day already and it looks like these 2 transactions are not going to make it.

Yes, it's look like a SCAM  :
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=5472.msg73290#msg73290

1. As I check with http://pts-bitshares.com you doesn't have access to your private key, why you even trying to use this service for AGS donation? Without private key you will not be able to redeem your assets in future BitShares DACs.
2. Why you don't use official BitShares PTS wallet software? https://github.com/BitShares/BitShares-PTS/releases

[FriendsOfBitshares]

The github link is probably a better choice.  The wiki is an extra layer.  We're coming up here on the last few hours to get some AGS !

[schnötzel]

Damn wallet won´t sync  

 finally