Bitfinex

[inca]

Just a simple thread with a few questions for btfinex users.

What do users have to say about the USD swap facility? Other than btfinex going bust or running with the cash what are the risks to capital in extreme market movements? Bitfinex says traders losses don't cause swap lending losses but is this really the case?

Having a look at swap rates they are currently about 0.16% per day which is very tempting. I have read of rates up to 0.44% per day.

A high risk strategy might be to move a % of ones btc holdings there, exchange for dollars and swap on short term swap loans. With the idea of buying back when btc reaches a certain threshold.

Another option is to wait for the next peak (should it come) and sell out an agreed % at an agreed target price (1900, 2500, 2900) and leave it compounding lent out as swap through the next few months.

It's common knowledge that trading is unprofitable for most participants, whilst carrying risk of holding btc on an exchange. This seems similar in terms of institutional risk but a more straightforward way to generate consistent profit.

Comments?

[1715630672]

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[1715630672]

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[1715630672]

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[PirateHatForTea]

http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/29isbb/eli5_why_cant_i_just_park_some_money_on_bitfinex/cilk4vf

[inca]

http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/29isbb/eli5_why_cant_i_just_park_some_money_on_bitfinex/cilk4vf

Very helpful. The degenerate gambler in me will park a few k there for fun and see what happens.

[piramida]

I have even less trust in bitfinex after mtgox incident seeing as it's also a french endeavor. No racism, just a pattern I noticed - french = not reliable practices.

[TheJuice]

Just a simple thread with a few questions for btfinex users.

What do users have to say about the USD swap facility? Other than btfinex going bust or running with the cash what are the risks to capital in extreme market movements? Bitfinex says traders losses don't cause swap lending losses but is this really the case?

Having a look at swap rates they are currently about 0.16% per day which is very tempting. I have read of rates up to 0.44% per day.

A high risk strategy might be to move a % of ones btc holdings there, exchange for dollars and swap on short term swap loans. With the idea of buying back when btc reaches a certain threshold.

Another option is to wait for the next peak (should it come) and sell out an agreed % at an agreed target price (1900, 2500, 2900) and leave it compounding lent out as swap through the next few months.

It's common knowledge that trading is unprofitable for most participants, whilst carrying risk of holding btc on an exchange. This seems similar in terms of institutional risk but a more straightforward way to generate consistent profit.

Comments?

I've parked 10% of my 'btc money' into bitfinex. I've been making 8-10%/mo which is ~3x per year.

How I see it in 1 year:

if btc rises above 1800 (3x when i sold at 600): I would have made more holding all BTCs, but BTC is now 1800 so who cares!!!
btc from 600-1800; I made more than just holding
btc drops to 300; I lost 50% of my 90%. My 10% is now worth 3x as much and can buy 2x as much so 6x. So in $$ my NW would be 45%+30% = 75% in total BTC it would be 90 % + 60% = 150%. (THIS IS KEY, if btc drops to 1/2 the price, my nw in usd is still 75% but i increased my btc stash by 50%)
btc drops to 100; I lost 80% of my 90%. My 10% is 3x higher with 6x buying power = i own alnost 3x my initial coin.

but there are risks, aka bitfinex closes shop.

[Spaceman_Spiff]

Just a simple thread with a few questions for btfinex users.

What do users have to say about the USD swap facility? Other than btfinex going bust or running with the cash what are the risks to capital in extreme market movements? Bitfinex says traders losses don't cause swap lending losses but is this really the case?

Having a look at swap rates they are currently about 0.16% per day which is very tempting. I have read of rates up to 0.44% per day.

A high risk strategy might be to move a % of ones btc holdings there, exchange for dollars and swap on short term swap loans. With the idea of buying back when btc reaches a certain threshold.

Another option is to wait for the next peak (should it come) and sell out an agreed % at an agreed target price (1900, 2500, 2900) and leave it compounding lent out as swap through the next few months.

It's common knowledge that trading is unprofitable for most participants, whilst carrying risk of holding btc on an exchange. This seems similar in terms of institutional risk but a more straightforward way to generate consistent profit.

Comments?

I've parked 10% of my 'btc money' into bitfinex. I've been making 8-10%/mo which is ~3x per year.

How I see it in 1 year:

if btc rises above 1800 (3x when i sold at 600): I would have made more holding all BTCs, but BTC is now 1800 so who cares!!!
btc from 600-1800; I made more than just holding
btc drops to 300; I lost 50% of my 90%. My 10% is now worth 3x as much and can buy 2x as much so 6x. So in $$ my NW would be 45%+30% = 75% in total BTC it would be 90 % + 60% = 150%. (THIS IS KEY, if btc drops to 1/2 the price, my nw in usd is still 75% but i increased my btc stash by 50%)
btc drops to 100; I lost 80% of my 90%. My 10% is 3x higher with 6x buying power = i own alnost 3x my initial coin.

but there are risks, aka bitfinex closes shop.

Current swap prices are closer to 50% per year, and you are assuming this won't drop, which it probably will unless the BTC price keeps skyrocketing.  Current swap prices are a lot better than during the last calm period, and long-term the swap rates go down over time  (last year I had like 7% a day for one loan, unfortunately only had 10 dollars or so on the website to test the waters).
I still like the rates there are today, but don't expect them to last unless there is another bubble.  And though I believe the bitfinex team wants to establish a long-lasting profitable business, it could still all go horribly wrong.

[Dalmar]

I have even less trust in bitfinex after mtgox incident seeing as it's also a french endeavor. No racism, just a pattern I noticed - french = not reliable practices.

Also a similar pattern: hiding out in East Asia... like Karpeles.  

[arbitrage001]

There are a lot of post on Bitfinex lately.

They have an audit feature, anyone with accounting background care to comment?

[aminorex]

East Asia is where the economic power is shifting so the businesses are following.

That's not the reason for finance to shift, though.  Finance is shifting because they have a reasonable legal environment.  HK and Singapore, that is.  Not Tokyo, Shanghai, Seoul -- they are regulatory scammers.  There is hope for Shanghai, however.

[An amorous cow-herder]

I have even less trust in bitfinex after mtgox incident seeing as it's also a french endeavor. No racism, just a pattern I noticed - french = not reliable practices.

Hmm, a pattern with a length of 1.
Well, not worse than the TA charts here at least.

[piramida]

I have even less trust in bitfinex after mtgox incident seeing as it's also a french endeavor. No racism, just a pattern I noticed - french = not reliable practices.

Hmm, a pattern with a length of 1.
Well, not worse than the TA charts here at least.

no, not one, have a long trail from a non-bitcoin businesses i dealt with. not saying that there can't be a reliable french business, just many of them are based on emotion rather than thought.

[Justine]

I have even less trust in bitfinex after mtgox incident seeing as it's also a french endeavor. No racism, just a pattern I noticed - french = not reliable practices.

Hmm, a pattern with a length of 1.
Well, not worse than the TA charts here at least.

no, not one, have a long trail from a non-bitcoin businesses i dealt with. not saying that there can't be a reliable french business, just many of them are based on emotion rather than thought.

Who is the CEO of bitfinex? Didn't know he is a French.

[Xiaoxiao]

I have even less trust in bitfinex after mtgox incident seeing as it's also a french endeavor. No racism, just a pattern I noticed - french = not reliable practices.

Hmm, a pattern with a length of 1.
Well, not worse than the TA charts here at least.

no, not one, have a long trail from a non-bitcoin businesses i dealt with. not saying that there can't be a reliable french business, just many of them are based on emotion rather than thought.

Who is the CEO of bitfinex? Didn't know he is a French.

Giancarlo.  Seems like a straightforward guy imo.  Doesn't handle things the way a lot of shady people handle things.

[windjc]

Bitfinex fucking rocks.

Most (99.999999999999999999999%) of the people that complain about it or post conspiracy theories about it (ie MatWearsAHat)  either haven't used it or were too dumb to understand how to use it (because Bitfinex really provides no good resource materials to understand all their functions).

But Finex still rocks and its the best exchange out their right now.

[Gimmelfarb]

i don't understand why anyone would leverage long on Bitfinex. short, sure, that's cheap. why pay so much for swaps, especially when sideways action will kill your position? you pay no swap when trading on MT4 (BTCE) and FX Open.

BTCE is the best exchange, hands down, if only for their trade engine/API, and reputable past.

[windjc]

i don't understand why anyone would leverage long on Bitfinex. short, sure, that's cheap. why pay so much for swaps, especially when sideways action will kill your position? you pay no swap when trading on MT4 (BTCE) and FX Open.

BTCE is the best exchange, hands down, if only for their trade engine/API, and reputable past.

No one trading decent volume (500BTC +) can trade on BTC-E. Hell its hard enough on Finex and Stamp. But easiest on Finex.

[Gimmelfarb]

i don't understand why anyone would leverage long on Bitfinex. short, sure, that's cheap. why pay so much for swaps, especially when sideways action will kill your position? you pay no swap when trading on MT4 (BTCE) and FX Open.

BTCE is the best exchange, hands down, if only for their trade engine/API, and reputable past.

No one trading decent volume (500BTC +) can trade on BTC-E. Hell its hard enough on Finex and Stamp. But easiest on Finex.

depends on your trading plan. there's plenty of liquidity for whales on BTCE, but you can't play every little move and you pay a premium to get in a heavy position at any given level. i would think a smart whale would be making moves on all 3 exchanges, if not Chinese exchanges as well.

all of the western exchanges are thin, but Stamp regularly has more liquidity than Bitfinex.

[byronbb]

Seems absurd (ie suspicious) they have not borrowed a few million then lent it out for swaps for the greatest carry trade of all time.

[Kipsy89]

yeah that interest on swaps is crazy. if i get the urge to use margin, i'll check out MT4.

[windjc]

yeah that interest on swaps is crazy. if i get the urge to use margin, i'll check out MT4.

The interests on swaps is around 60% annual. That is much lower than it was a year ago. What are you people even talking about?