Those who rent out signature space---Unite!

[tspacepilot]

Hello folks,

I've been involed in a few signature ad campaigns of the past few years.  By involved I mean that I've rented my signature space out.  To be honest, the first few campaigns I was involved in were completely professional and there were no issues regarding payment, payment-ontime, etc.  However, the last few campaigns I've been involved in have had serious issues.  Either payments weren't done on time.  Or they were done on time for some people but not for others.  Or everyone was paid but some weren't paid in full.

In my opinion, those who rent out their signature need to stick together on this front.  When a signature renter doesn't pay one of us in full, it's really a damage to all of us---that's because any of us might be the next one not to be paid.  I'm not trying to organize an official union or monopolize the labor market or anything like that.  However, I am thinking that there should be some basic "signature bearer's rights" and that signature campaigns who violate these rights for even a single individual in the campaign should basicially find their ad removed from all the campaigners by solidarity.  I think this sort of thing would force folks renting signature space to be respectful and professional and to fulfill their contracts.

The opposite of this sort of solidarity is what I'm seeing a lot now.  As soon as one person says "hey i didn't get paid" half of the newbies jump on him and say "well there must have ben some problem with your posts" or "well what did you do wrong" or "stop spreading FUD".  In any case, if the person really did have something wrong, that's one thing.  But I can reference specific incidents in a number of recent campaigns where folks left unsatisfied after basically bearing the ad in their signature for free.

I don't want to propose anything too concrete here, I just want to prompt discussion about solidarity among signature renters.  My opinion is that would drive signature campaign advertizers to treat their contractees with professionalism and improve the market conditions for these contractees.  What are your opinions?

[AceWallen]

i'm with ya. after getting screwed by tradefortress and bitcoinsports.eu, i gave up on signature advertising for a while. minersource has been good so far, but i see what you mean with all the problems around updown.bt and xbtec.

[tspacepilot]

i'm with ya. after getting screwed by tradefortress and bitcoinsports.eu, i gave up on signature advertising for a while. minersource has been good so far, but i see what you mean with all the problems around updown.bt and xbtec.

My idea is basically to start a culture whereby when this kinda thing happens, all the campaigners drop the signature at the same moment.   Let's call it the equivalent of a strike.   So, for example, perhaps as a staring point, I'd suggest that when a campaigner who doesn't pay all the participants by 24hours past the time agreed upon, all the campaigners should immediately remove the signature until the campaigner settles the debt.  If everyone acts in soldiarity, the campaigner would basically realize that he's not going to get away with any free advertizing, he needs to make everything right before anyone would be willing to bear his ad.

A stronger version of this, which I'm not 100% sure is a good idea, would be to place text over the ad which says "UNRESOLVED ISSUES WITH COMPANY X---DO NOT BUY".  I think this would be a sort of extreme measure.  Say after a campaigner has failed to rectify the debt for weeks and is not willing to negotiate to make it right.

[galbros]

Good luck with this.  Lots of time people do start scammer threads when sig campaign sponsors don't pay but obviously by then the damage is done.

It looks like up/down bit may be a good chance to try and see if your proposal can get any traction.

I would actually be more worried about borderline spammers making scores of low value posts that essentially "drain" the sponsors bank compelling them to limit or end the campaign or so alienate users that they ignore all of us who have rented out our space.  While sponsors should look out for themselves there are so many people in campaigns that they just impose limits or give up.

[buy4crypto]

Good luck with this.  Lots of time people do start scammer threads when sig campaign sponsors don't pay but obviously by then the damage is done.

It looks like up/down bit may be a good chance to try and see if your proposal can get any traction.

I would actually be more worried about borderline spammers making scores of low value posts that essentially "drain" the sponsors bank compelling them to limit or end the campaign or so alienate users that they ignore all of us who have rented out our space.  While sponsors should look out for themselves there are so many people in campaigns that they just impose limits or give up.

Never really realized that people paid for signature space. A interesting way to advertise for sure. What is the going rate about does anyone know?

[commandrix]

I know what you mean; I have heard there are a few scams out there regarding signature space rentals. I think after July 10 I'll see whether Luckybit actually pays out, and then maybe try turning my signature over to a couple of the affiliate programs I know about. See if that works.

[tspacepilot]

Good luck with this.  Lots of time people do start scammer threads when sig campaign sponsors don't pay but obviously by then the damage is done.

Sure.  I guess what I'm talking about is that I've seen it such that several people aren't paid, they start the scammer thread, but then others who were paid continue on bearing the signature.  Then others jump into the spots vacated by the people who got scammed.  Thus the sponsor can contiue to half-pay or pay when he chooses as long as he doesn't alienate everyone obviously, he can get a lot of free advertising.  I think what's ever worse is that when the next campaign starts, people start to think that this is the way things are (everyone for himself!) and things just get worse and worse for the ad-bearers.

It looks like up/down bit may be a good chance to try and see if your proposal can get any traction.

You may be right, things are looking bleak there.  I'll probably drop a line in that thread and ask folks to consider my proposal (act together!). IMHO, it's a shame that a lot of hero and senior members are still wearing the ad.  If you ask me, they should all drop the ad immediately and demand payment in order to put it back.  Obviously, this only really works if people act as a unified front. If only a few remove the ad, up/down will prolly just say "see, they cheated, no payment for them..."

I would actually be more worried about borderline spammers making scores of low value posts that essentially "drain" the sponsors bank compelling them to limit or end the campaign or so alienate users that they ignore all of us who have rented out our space.  While sponsors should look out for themselves there are so many people in campaigns that they just impose limits or give up.

I really think that quality of posts is orthogonal to this issue. Spam/low-value posts obviously clog up the board and make us all unhappy. What's more, advertisers who legitimately care about their image don't want to be associated with such antisocial activity.  IMHO, the scheme by bitmixer.io is really honorable, it doesn't encourage folks to post any more than they already would.  However, the rates are so low there that it's not very competitive.  Nevertheless, I think the problem of weeding low-value posters out of the campaign is not related to the problem of sponsors failing to uphold their contracts in a whimsical way.

[sed]

seems like a good idea.  but actually getting people to do it is prolly like a pipe-dream...

[hilariousandco]

i'm with ya. after getting screwed by tradefortress and bitcoinsports.eu, i gave up on signature advertising for a while. minersource has been good so far, but i see what you mean with all the problems around updown.bt and xbtec.

My idea is basically to start a culture whereby when this kinda thing happens, all the campaigners drop the signature at the same moment.   Let's call it the equivalent of a strike.   So, for example, perhaps as a staring point, I'd suggest that when a campaigner who doesn't pay all the participants by 24hours past the time agreed upon, all the campaigners should immediately remove the signature until the campaigner settles the debt.  If everyone acts in soldiarity, the campaigner would basically realize that he's not going to get away with any free advertizing, he needs to make everything right before anyone would be willing to bear his ad.

I see what you're getting at but this won't work. Like with all strikes you get scabs. Not everyone will be willing to take the risk of removing the signature in case that actually voids them from payment. There's nothing you can do really. People are greedy at the end of the day. I've seen users join signature deals plenty of times even after the campaigns are looking like they're not going to pay or have serious problems. I'd suggest not joining any campaign until they put enough money in escrow or made significant steps to prove their intent to pay, but even that can turn sour quickly (see UpDown.bt) and there's always the greedy ones who won't care about any of that and just join because the campaign is offering a little more than the others.

[enhu]

Why not just ask for the fee for certain period of time. maybe for around 6months the signature link will be up and after 6 months you can disable it if he discontinue to send message and pay for another 6months.

[maurya78]

I am not in favour of organised action
System works pretty well as things stand now
Pretty clear who has rep and who doesn't

[Fernandez]

i'm with ya. after getting screwed by tradefortress and bitcoinsports.eu, i gave up on signature advertising for a while. minersource has been good so far, but i see what you mean with all the problems around updown.bt and xbtec.

Exactly the same, I was screwed by Tradefortress and bitcoinsports.eu too. After that I gave up for some time but for the past few months it has been going quite well.

The rates have been good too. Its satisfying having a fixed amount of guaranteed earning each month.

[medUSA]

There are too many members here, some will jump to any campaign even if it doesn't pay, they have nothing to loose.

[Dannie]

There are too many members here, some will jump to any campaign even if it doesn't pay, they have nothing to loose.

Well, they will learn eventually after getting no payment for their works.

[Zyborg]

Why don't you just switch to a reputable campaign and let everyone make their own decisions? If they want to get scammed - let them, it's none of your concern.

[zolace]

Pilot Im with you but Xbtec paid me and im going to give them too Friday to pay the rest, I think a strike would be good if we implent a negative on there accounts right now the strike should go more on uptown, at least xbtec came and notify the issue and still in ok standing with me since he did pay me and owe me one more payment.  Right now im speaking against uptown for the moment

[tspacepilot]

Pilot Im with you but Xbtec paid me and im going to give them too Friday to pay the rest, I think a strike would be good if we implent a negative on there accounts right now the strike should go more on uptown, at least xbtec came and notify the issue and still in ok standing with me since he did pay me and owe me one more payment.  Right now im speaking against uptown for the moment

Yes, xbtec owes me one remaining payment.  FWIW, I believe he will pay, he doesn't seem dishonest, only disorganized.

To the folks who say the system works well as things stand, I'd say you're only partially correct.  Sometimes the system works well, sometimes it doesn't.  If signature bearers with a little more solidarity, I think that advertizers would be forced to get their acts together more quickly.  Really I'm not trying to organize anything "official", I'm merely trying to facilitate a discussion about generating a culture in which certain kinds of abuses aren't tolerated by the community.

Why don't you just switch to a reputable campaign and let everyone make their own decisions? If they want to get scammed - let them, it's none of your concern.

Zyborg, I think you missed my point entirely.  I have no power to prevent or "let" everyone make their own decisions.  Nor would I want such a power.  My question to you is this: what would you do if your campaign paid you and failed to pay someone else.  Do you just "let them get scammed"?  Or do you do something proactive under the notion that you may be the next person to "get scammed" by such a campaign?

[zolace]

a working community is more effective and is the right thing to do, if you got scammed, wouldnt you like a group to come to your aid especially if you have a newbie status?

[tspacepilot]

Apparantly things have gotten pretty bad over at the updown campaign.  Some folks continue to bear the signature while those who drop the signature in protest never get paid.  As long as some folks keep putting the signature on, then the OP gets free advertising.  Obviously this is a stupid business decision in the long run (I believe)---word will spread through the community eventually about how he fails to honor his contracts and then he will essentially have accomplished "antiadvertising" on this forum.  Anyway, it would all stop right now if the updown advertizers would simply drop the sig together until the situation was straightned out.

[enhu]

Why don't you just switch to a reputable campaign and let everyone make their own decisions? If they want to get scammed - let them, it's none of your concern.

No. There will be more threads like this if a lot of them gets no pay. Its better to support everyone. 
Lucky enough someone like tspacepilot voice it out.