Government bankrupting the average citizen?

[Jon]

The US government is barring oil companies from drilling on so-called "public land" and rather have us depend on foreign countries for our oil supply.

In turn, gas prices go up, the cost of shipping goes up and so does the cost of food and other necessities. Before we know it a 50% increase in the cost of gas will be a nearly identical increase in the cost of bread.

The statists proclaim that it should be the individuals duty to go to alternative sources of fuel; otherwise, the hungry man can suffer and the working man can lose his job, because he can't afford the commute.

Is anyone so wise and so virtuous to dictate how we should travel and how we should sell and ship our food in the name of cleaner air? That is the question.

The fact is when the individual truly wants an electric vehicle, she will have it and no sooner. To force her into starvation and poverty to reach the end of cleaner energy -- is that truly preferable?

It won't only be the business owner bearing the cost of this governmental experiment; it will be the average individual as well.

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[bb113]

Well, get rid of subsidies and tariffs as well. Also fix the legal system so that individual's find it easier to get compensated fairly for whatever they may lose due to the excavations.

Since all of this will not happen at once the point is somewhat moot.

[Jon]

Well, get rid of subsidies and tariffs as well. Also fix the legal system so that individual's find it easier to get compensated fairly for whatever they may lose due to the excavations.

Since all of this will not happen at once the point is somewhat moot.

Do you believe that all residential living will be ruined because of oil excavation?

[bb113]

Well, get rid of subsidies and tariffs as well. Also fix the legal system so that individual's find it easier to get compensated fairly for whatever they may lose due to the excavations.

Since all of this will not happen at once the point is somewhat moot.

Do you believe that all residential living will be ruined because of oil excavation?

No. I'm just pointing out the preexisting non-free market context of these regulations.

[notme]

The solution to oil has nothing to do with drilling for oil.  The solution is Natural Gas.  We are capping wells we've drilled because too many were drilled the prices have dropped.  Gasoline engines can be quite cheaply converted to run on natural gas.  We have enough gas to drop oil demand, and all it would take is a small tax credit program for conversions.

[Jon]

The solution to oil has nothing to do with drilling for oil.  The solution is Natural Gas.  We are capping wells we've drilled because too many were drilled the prices have dropped.  Gasoline engines can be quite cheaply converted to run on natural gas.  We have enough gas to drop oil demand, and all it would take is a small tax credit program for conversions.

If we could convert to natural gas on just tax credits, I would be impressed considering it's money that already exists.

[notme]

The solution to oil has nothing to do with drilling for oil.  The solution is Natural Gas.  We are capping wells we've drilled because too many were drilled the prices have dropped.  Gasoline engines can be quite cheaply converted to run on natural gas.  We have enough gas to drop oil demand, and all it would take is a small tax credit program for conversions.

If we could convert to natural gas on just tax credits, I would be impressed.

A vehicle can be converted for $300 in parts.  Enough people have gas lines to their home to get the vehicles on the road.  Once there are vehicles on the road, gas stations will start carrying natural gas.

Canada and Europe already have many natural gas powered vehicles.  We're lagging here.  The economics are there, it just needs a small nudge in the right direction.

[Jon]

The solution to oil has nothing to do with drilling for oil.  The solution is Natural Gas.  We are capping wells we've drilled because too many were drilled the prices have dropped.  Gasoline engines can be quite cheaply converted to run on natural gas.  We have enough gas to drop oil demand, and all it would take is a small tax credit program for conversions.

If we could convert to natural gas on just tax credits, I would be impressed.

A vehicle can be converted for $300 in parts.  Enough people have gas lines to their home to get the vehicles on the road.  Once there are vehicles on the road, gas stations will start carrying natural gas.

Canada and Europe already have many natural gas powered vehicles.  We're lagging here.  The economics are there, it just needs a small nudge in the right direction.

Now I am really impressed. I will certainly be researching this.

How abundant and affordable is natural gas?

Thanks!

[notme]

The solution to oil has nothing to do with drilling for oil.  The solution is Natural Gas.  We are capping wells we've drilled because too many were drilled the prices have dropped.  Gasoline engines can be quite cheaply converted to run on natural gas.  We have enough gas to drop oil demand, and all it would take is a small tax credit program for conversions.

If we could convert to natural gas on just tax credits, I would be impressed.

A vehicle can be converted for $300 in parts.  Enough people have gas lines to their home to get the vehicles on the road.  Once there are vehicles on the road, gas stations will start carrying natural gas.

Canada and Europe already have many natural gas powered vehicles.  We're lagging here.  The economics are there, it just needs a small nudge in the right direction.

Now I am really impressed. I will certainly be researching this.

How abundant and affordable is natural gas?

Thanks!

http://www.cngnow.com/ has some good info.  It looks like there are some regulations that add a premium, so in addition to the $300 in parts, there will be the labor and the regulatory burden.

[Matthew N. Wright]

The solution to oil has nothing to do with drilling for oil.  The solution is Natural Gas.  We are capping wells we've drilled because too many were drilled the prices have dropped.  Gasoline engines can be quite cheaply converted to run on natural gas.  We have enough gas to drop oil demand, and all it would take is a small tax credit program for conversions.

If we could convert to natural gas on just tax credits, I would be impressed.

A vehicle can be converted for $300 in parts.  Enough people have gas lines to their home to get the vehicles on the road.  Once there are vehicles on the road, gas stations will start carrying natural gas.

Canada and Europe already have many natural gas powered vehicles.  We're lagging here.  The economics are there, it just needs a small nudge in the right direction.

Now I am really impressed. I will certainly be researching this.

How abundant and affordable is natural gas?

Thanks!

http://www.cngnow.com/ has some good info.  It looks like there are some regulations that add a premium, so in addition to the $300 in parts, there will be the labor and the regulatory burden.

Here in South Korea too. We've been using LPG gas for like 10 years on all public transportation, taxis, etc.

[compro01]

The US government is barring oil companies from drilling on so-called "public land" and rather have us depend on foreign countries for our oil supply.

if you think the US's domestic oil production capacity would do anything to oil prices, your calculator needs new batteries.

Now I am really impressed. I will certainly be researching this.

How abundant and affordable is natural gas?

Thanks!

Natural gas is cheap. Really cheap.

At present rates here, including delivery, natural gas is $6.42/gigajoule.

A gigajoule of gasoline (about 8.5 gallons) is about $35.

However, the trade off is you need 4-6 times as much space to store the same amount of energy.

[Gabi]

The solution to oil has nothing to do with drilling for oil.  The solution is Natural Gas.  We are capping wells we've drilled because too many were drilled the prices have dropped.  Gasoline engines can be quite cheaply converted to run on natural gas.  We have enough gas to drop oil demand, and all it would take is a small tax credit program for conversions.

If we could convert to natural gas on just tax credits, I would be impressed.

A vehicle can be converted for $300 in parts.  Enough people have gas lines to their home to get the vehicles on the road.  Once there are vehicles on the road, gas stations will start carrying natural gas.

Canada and Europe already have many natural gas powered vehicles.  We're lagging here.  The economics are there, it just needs a small nudge in the right direction.

I'm european and i have a gas powered car. Work like a normal car and almost every gas station has natural gas. And it's much cheaper than gasoline

[RandyFolds]

The solution to oil has nothing to do with drilling for oil.  The solution is Natural Gas.  We are capping wells we've drilled because too many were drilled the prices have dropped.  Gasoline engines can be quite cheaply converted to run on natural gas.  We have enough gas to drop oil demand, and all it would take is a small tax credit program for conversions.

If we could convert to natural gas on just tax credits, I would be impressed.

A vehicle can be converted for $300 in parts.  Enough people have gas lines to their home to get the vehicles on the road.  Once there are vehicles on the road, gas stations will start carrying natural gas.

Canada and Europe already have many natural gas powered vehicles.  We're lagging here.  The economics are there, it just needs a small nudge in the right direction.

I highly doubt that you can safely and legally convert a gasoline engine with $300 in parts. My buddy just sold his 2002 LPG Honda Civic for well over $20k in Los Angeles...the same car you can get for $3k in gasoline form...so if it could be done for $300, my guess is the Mexican mechanics that actually know how to work on things would be rolling around on giant piles of money from converting hondas all day. They aren't.

He could only use it to and from work due to the extremely limited range and lack of LP stations anywhere off the beaten path.

[Matthew N. Wright]

I highly doubt that you can safely and legally convert a gasoline engine with $300 in parts.

That does sound a bit too cheap. I don't think it's rightly $3,000 though, but even here in Korea new cars that are LPG cost much more.

$20k versus $3k is a bit of a rare case though.

I would say you could do the conversion  for $1k here in Korea.

[notme]

I highly doubt that you can safely and legally convert a gasoline engine with $300 in parts. My buddy just sold his 2002 LPG Honda Civic for well over $20k in Los Angeles...the same car you can get for $3k in gasoline form...so if it could be done for $300, my guess is the Mexican mechanics that actually know how to work on things would be rolling around on giant piles of money from converting hondas all day. They aren't.

He could only use it to and from work due to the extremely limited range and lack of LP stations anywhere off the beaten path.

It looks like there are some regulations that add a premium, so in addition to the $300 in parts, there will be the labor and the regulatory burden.

Can it be done safely for $300 in parts, yes.  Legally, no.  Also, pricing in LA has nothing to do with costs.  You might want to spend a little more to get a bigger tank, but other than hooking up the fuel lines all you have to do is adjust the fuel-air ratio.

[RandyFolds]

I highly doubt that you can safely and legally convert a gasoline engine with $300 in parts.

That does sound a bit too cheap. I don't think it's rightly $3,000 though, but even here in Korea new cars that are LPG cost much more.

$20k versus $3k is a bit of a rare case though.

I would say you could do the conversion  for $1k here in Korea.

Granted, that example was the month that the Prius no longer qualified for the "carpool lane exception" in LA and there was a mad hustle to get LPG vehicles so single commuters could still use the HOV lanes. I am sure it being California, and Los Angeles in particular adds a shitload of red tape/expense.

Still, my buddy picked an excellent time to move to Ohio.


notme; how do you registration and smog and whatnot if you go the illegal route? register it as gas and then do then conversion? I had a friend that did that with left-drive hondas and made bank, but it entailed converting the cars to right drive to get them registered, then reverting them to left-drive and selling them to the ricer crowd.

[nebulus]

Is anyone so wise and so virtuous to dictate how we should travel and how we should sell and ship our food in the name of cleaner air? That is the question.

You can live without food for about 40 days, you can live without air for about 10 minutes. That is the answer.

[notme]

notme; how do you registration and smog and whatnot if you go the illegal route? register it as gas and then do then conversion? I had a friend that did that with left-drive hondas and made bank, but it entailed converting the cars to right drive to get them registered, then reverting them to left-drive and selling them to the ricer crowd.

Where I live, I can register a vehicle and get it inspected without anyone looking under the hood.  Even if they did, they are unlikely to notice the extra fuel line.  We also have no emissions tests, so that wouldn't throw off any flags.  As long as nothing is falling off, lights work, brakes and tires have enough pad/tread, you can get a sticker.

I don't know how people can live in places where the government inserts itself in your ass every chance it gets.

[RandyFolds]

I don't know how people can live in places where the government inserts itself in your ass every chance it gets.

It's pretty easy...you just bend over and spread 'em.

[Jon]

As long as you get your food stamps and your welfare check, it feels good, eh?