[R-2]Win a Christmas Cruise to Caribbean for 8 people! coming soon @luckysatoshi

[luckyknc]

The entire balance of the escrow address will be released to luckyknc when the raffle winner takes control of the pre-order. Release of escrow will not be dependent on the actual KNC Titan Miner being received. The specific day of delivery is a responsibility of KNC, and neither the raffle provider nor the escrow provider is responsible for any failure of KNC to honor their pre-order.

6.   The total amount of btc will be held by Escrow service and will be released only after the
outcome is verified-NOT when the item is delivered to the winner as the specific day of the delivery is a responsibility of KNC*.For more info on the KNC terms and conditions, please see below.

7.   The winner’s name and address will be entered into our KNC account.

The account cannot be transferred since it contains more than one item. Therefore the winner's name and address will be entered into the account and the total amount of btc will be held by Escrow service and will be released only after the
outcome is verified as stated in the terms and conditions.

It is VERY IMPORTANT that all raffle participants post in this thread the transaction ID after they send bitcoins to the excrow address so they can be identified for payout at the end of the raffle.  If the winner cannot be identified, the funds will be held in escrow for 365 days.  If the winning transaction is not claimed within 365 days, the entire balance will be paid as a transaction fee to be claimed by a miner.

added

12. If the winner cannot be identified or nobody claims the prize for 1 week the funds will still be released and ticket with the second lowest hash gets the prize.

[luckyknc]

The account cannot be transferred since it contains more than one item. Therefore the winner's name and address will be entered into the account and the total amount of btc will be held by Escrow service and will be released only after the
outcome is verified as stated in the terms and conditions.

This has me very concerned.

Wouldn't it be possible for the name and address to be changed back immediately after escrow is released since you still control the account?

I've updated the agreement with the assumption that my concerns are accurate.  Unfortunately, the agreement is buried on page 2 of this thread which leaves me a bit concerned that many people won't even see it.

Once you've reviewed the agreement and confirm that everything is accurate, It would be necessary for you to edit your second post in this thread and replace the "Please do not send any btc until escrow service is available!" with a copy of the full signed agreement.

The name and address wont be changed back, the same way we trust you not to take the btc and run or hold them for no apparent reason.
We are trying to build up a name for our site since the raffles will continue so there is no point in doing that. However, we cannot risk to transfer to someone else an account that has more than one items pre ordered.

If you can be trusted not to change the name and address back, then there is no need for escrow.  Escrow does not provide any additional protection in this matter.  The only way that escrow can protect the players of the raffle is if the funds are held in escrow until the actual KNC Titan Miner is delivered.  This way if the address is changed back, the winner can receive the funds from escrow instead.

We are aware of the necessity of an escrow service, but in this particular case we can only guarantee that the winner’s name and address will be entered into our KNC account and not the actual KNC Titan Miner delivery as it is a responsibility of KNC.

[luckyknc]

Fair enough people will read the terms and conditions and decide for themselves. Everything was clear from the beginning, nothing misleading.

Let the game begin!

30 days left

Buy at least 1 ticket for 0.05 btc and get a chance to raffle off a first batch KNC Titan Miner (400Mh/s)!
For every 5 tickets you buy get 1 for free! 1MkcdKa3osFpgEcrKsArF7KCE3WULe49jD

[luckyknc]

ok wow well that changes everything...ok ya luckyknc can see where your coming from, you can't guarantee a delivery from knc for a titan just the address, that is all find and dandy...but then if no unit is shipped to winner, shouldn't the winner get the winning pool btc? cause i can see this going no where if we still have to trust you to do us right...that is the whole point of escrow is for safety against scammers...there has to be someway for the ticket sales to be protected and you get your way luckyknc...if not then try n get another escrower or why bother? cause nobody will buy tickets after reading all this...cause ya if we can't be fully protected by escrow then this whole thing is pointless

ok before i could even post this ya started...whelp i won't be buying any tickets after danny pointed this all out...good luck

Np mate. It was in the terms and conditions before it was pointed out by danny or you. If KNC doesn't ship the miner to the winner it will be KNCs fault, the winners name and address will be in the knc account. If however the 400 tickets limit is never reached, escrow itself will send the pot to the winner and that alone is the necessity of an escrow.


Ladies and gentleman, place your bets! 1MkcdKa3osFpgEcrKsArF7KCE3WULe49jD

[luckyknc]

http://luckysatoshi.org/

0.05 btc per ticket

1MkcdKa3osFpgEcrKsArF7KCE3WULe49jD


Post your tx id and Good Luck!

[ALXBOB]

38329e505a375d9ec3d65d791a23cac3354aea4cac0cbd399e7ae1eb4a1f97a4 lets gamble

[luckyknc]

38329e505a375d9ec3d65d791a23cac3354aea4cac0cbd399e7ae1eb4a1f97a4 lets gamble

First ticket nice ! You can check at http://luckysatoshi.org/ show/hide button ! Good luck!

[ALXBOB]

Payout address if there are less than 400 entries and I win: 17cP3K4kV8MZgbaUH8LXgtAH6nUg8bGwup

[ALXBOB]

38329e505a375d9ec3d65d791a23cac3354aea4cac0cbd399e7ae1eb4a1f97a4 lets gamble

First ticket nice ! You can check at http://luckysatoshi.org/ show/hide button ! Good luck!

Tnx

[luckyknc]

6485 blocks left!

Get your ticket now and get a chance to raffle off a first batch KNC Titan Miner!

1MkcdKa3osFpgEcrKsArF7KCE3WULe49jD

[luckyknc]

6485 blocks left!

Get your ticket now and get a chance to raffle off a first batch KNC Titan Miner!

1MkcdKa3osFpgEcrKsArF7KCE3WULe49jD

10bucks says ALXBOB is the only player

I bet 0.05 btc he is not!

[ALXBOB]

6485 blocks left!

Get your ticket now and get a chance to raffle off a first batch KNC Titan Miner!

1MkcdKa3osFpgEcrKsArF7KCE3WULe49jD

10bucks says ALXBOB is the only player

I bet 0.05 btc he is not!

betting on betting !

[luckyknc]

I bet he is your shill account :p

My shill accounts are not in the game yet   So You place a bet and you take it back?

[ballbugsbunny]

I surely have an itchy finger now..
I can't believe that my first post on this forum was about chances and probabilities and here I am considering this "raffle" thing..

Well i guess i might buy one if i see a little more interest on that thing..

[suryc]

The name and address wont be changed back, the same way we trust you not to take the btc and run or hold them for no apparent reason.
We are trying to build up a name for our site since the raffles will continue so there is no point in doing that. However, we cannot risk to transfer to someone else an account that has more than one items pre ordered.

Concerning the agreement, the changes are made as you suggested.

The escrow has a reputation, that's why we trust him not to take the btc and run. KnC has a reputation, that's why we trust them to deliver. You are completely new to the scene and we have no basis to trust you.

I trust DannyHamilton. I trust KnC. I just don't know you....

Why can't you simply request that KnC to transfer ownership of the order to the winner of the raffle and include that in the terms. KnC has transferred ownership of orders (not the whole account) before, I don't see why they wouldn't do it in this case.

If you were to change the terms of the raffle to make this clear, I'm sure it would give people more confidence to buy tickets and probably alleviate danny's concerns as well.

I certainly don't have the confidence to participate in a raffle run by someone I don't know when you could simply change the address back and run away with the order.

If you do make this change or some other change to address this issue, I would be very eager to participate in this raffle. If it's not a scam, I don't see why you wouldn't take a few simple steps to assure everyone of that.

[luckyknc]

I surely have an itchy finger now..
I can't believe that my first post on this forum was about chances and probabilities and here I am considering this "raffle" thing..

Well i guess i might buy one if i see a little more interest on that thing..

its really only safe if less then 400 tickets sold...cause then you'd win the pot...if more then 400 tickets sold, then he can just change the shipping address and change it back to whatever he wants and still get all the btc

Noone in the bitcoin world is trusted from the beginning. Also i dont believe we are getting anywhere close to 400 tickets! Although we would like to give 1 of our 2 titan miners and get something more than its original value. That is what this raffle is all about !

[DannyHamilton]

There are two ways you could increase people's faith in the result of the raffle and therefore increase participation.

Method one:
Give the winner a choice of prize if the total number of entries exceeds 400.  They can EITHER receive 95% of the balance in the raffle escrow address, OR they can have their name and address added to the KNC shipping information on your order.  This would allow those who trust you to choose the KNC Titan, and those that don't trust you can still participate in the raffle knowing that they can accept the bitcoins if they win.

Method two:
Contact KNC and find out if just one of the Titan miners can be transferred to a new account.  I'd even be willing to create a KNC account for the purpose of holding the order in escrow.  I'd then turn over control of the account that I created to the winner at the end of the raffle.

Without either of these two modifications to the raffle, you'll probably find that there aren't enough people that trust a brand new user to get involved.  There are simply too many ways that you could manipulate the results, and you haven't built up enough reputation yet for people to be willing to take that chance.

[luckyknc]

Kurt (kncminer)

Jul 17 08:52

Hi,

We can only transfer ownership of an order that has been shipped. This would only be for the concern of replacing certain hardware through our returns system.

Kind regards,

Med vänlig hälsning |  Best regards

Kurt Radcliffe
Kncminer
www.kncminer.com

Office: +46 8559 253 20

Since Knc cannot trasfer the ownership of an order the only choice is to use method one as referred by danny.

Method one:
Give the winner a choice of prize if the total number of entries exceeds 400.  They can EITHER receive 95% of the balance in the raffle escrow address, OR they can have their name and address added to the KNC shipping information on your order.  This would allow those who trust you to choose the KNC Titan, and those that don't trust you can still participate in the raffle knowing that they can accept the bitcoins if they win.

And give the winner the choice to either win the pot or the Knc Titan Miner preorder and alleviate everyone's concerns.

[luckyknc]

And give the winner the choice to either win the pot or the Knc Titan Miner preorder and alleviate everyone's concerns.

Have you decided to do this?  Shall I add it to the escrow agreement?

Already added in the Terms and Conditions.

[dmoss]

 
raffles are extremely risky