Bittrex killing the altcoin market?

[worriedtrader]

I've had a thought, it wasn't more than a few months ago when some coins would have several thousand BTC volume a day over various exchanges easily, whereas today it seems they don’t go above 500 BTC often. Back in the day Cryptsy didn't used to have total volume, but I'm sure they did over 10K BTC on a number of days on just DOGE alone and this was around when BTC was priced at around $1K. All the altcoin exchanges seem to have lower volume more recently.

In my mind it appears that the dynamic has gone from heavily trading established older coins to speculating on brand new coins. While this isn't a problem if the new coins are good, in reality it is just opening a huge window for coin developers to scam users and to let them get away with it too.

I’ve been studying the exchange Bittrex, which looks to be gaining in popularity, and they appear to be adding around 2 coins a day at the moment. This is a crazy pace to be adding new markets and doesn't give a chance for the coins added a few days back to even have a chance to grow. Furthermore they seem to remove markets quite quickly too, so the coin could be in and out before you know it, leaving many users holding coins that no longer have any value at all.

The bigger problem however seems that this is attracting bad developers to create coins that promise the world and yet deliver nothing. The formula appears to be quite simple: Create a coin with an exciting name and has some new feature coming soon (whitepaper seems to be hot these days), take a premine, get added to an exchange after gaining some hype during the small mining period and then dumping the premine and running away once the price is high enough and there are enough buy orders.

Of course once a user has been burnt like this, they are far less likely to invest again in altcoins, thus surely turning away a large number of users each time. I've been trading cryptocurrency for over seven months now, and this sort of thing didn't exist widely back then, I now feel scared to pick up a new coin as it’s hard to say whether it’s genuine or will result in the developer abandoning it. I can only correlate this change to exchanges like Bittrex supporting these scams.

It would be harsh to only blame Bittrex for this, as the other exchanges, Cryptsy, Mintpal, Poloniex, etc. are all somewhat at fault too, but I think Bittrex has the largest proportion of scams and still is adding coins at an unbelievable rate. I find it odd that users seem to be supporting Bittrex and others while they do this, as it could lead to the downfall of altcoin trading based on the changes I've seen...

[kelsey]

Yes Bittrex's policy of quick add almost without question and delist within days of lack of trading fully supports scam dev's especially if they want to repeat.

Too many coins listed on the many exchanges now is killing the overall market, too hard to look into every coin (makes that also easy for scamers, bounties also mean scamers now need to do very little work before dumping) and now investors money spread too thinly across many coins. Also proper devs spread to thinly in the community and too many coins abandoned.

Keeping track of my existing wallets (updates, forks etc) is hard enough let alone looking into new coins.

Many will start just to stick with btc/ltc and sell the rest the way its going.

[tokyoghetto]

only the strong will survive.

its a free market, Bittrex doesn't decide which coin is successful or fails. Its the market that decides. you can't blame Bittrex.

- If developers aren't doing enough to build and maintain their communities, that's the devs fault not Bittrex.
- If a coin pumps and dumps because of a scam whitepaper, that is not Bittrex's fault.
- If volume moves from coin to coin because whales are at work, that is not Bittrex's fault.
- If a dev dumps a premine, that is not Bittrex's fault.

What can you do to help? Well its simple:

- only support the coins you like
- support coins with strong honest devs and strong communities with promising tech.
- don't support scam whitepaper coins (VEIL comes to mind)
- don't support premine scam coins
- don't support ninja launched, instamined, block reward halving, early PoW ending scam coins.

The ones that do will continue to get scammed and will hopefully learn their lesson. Bittrex has been fair on adding every coin and giving every coin a chance, whether it turns out to be a scam or not.

Everyone should do their due diligence and invest accordingly. Stop blaming the exchanges.

[worriedtrader]

While it's not directly Bittrex and other exchange's fault if a coin turns out to be a scam or not, they are only actively promoting this sort of activity to happen.

Telling users to just do due diligence is a poor excuse for it, while many of them are being scammed because of this new culture that is appearing, exchanges do need to take some responsibility as after all they are simply charging their users fees for trading.

Volume is seeping away from the altcoin market because of this.

[Whoisthelorax]

While it's not directly Bittrex and other exchange's fault if a coin turns out to be a scam or not, they are only actively promoting this sort of activity to happen.

Telling users to just do due diligence is a poor excuse for it, while many of them are being scammed because of this new culture that is appearing, exchanges do need to take some responsibility as after all they are simply charging their users fees for trading.

Volume is seeping away from the altcoin market because of this.

+1

I like what tokyo wrote in terms of what i dividuals should be doing, but i wont put money on bittrex because despite all of this, scam devs will bring some BTC to pump their coin. This easily slides past bottrex's market measures and all but assures honest coins without initial powerful BTC backing can be left behind.

I would encourage exchanges to be choosy.

[smalltimer]

bittrex sucks because of impatience. They add coins with large community and when trading doesn't start within a couple of weeks delist it again. They are not the best exchange. But that is alright because i hate centralization and we need more exchanges that do different things. bittrex has its niche. Don't make it the exchange everybody goes to. Mintpal was hyped too much too. And there are still too many coins at cryptsy. There is still room for more exchanges.

[Unattainium]

Exchanges should be around to give a safe place to trade so you don't send first, get nothing back, like happened a lot last year and the years before. It should not be their job to weed out the scams and hold your hand while you invest. Bittrex is doing a great job and has been trustworthy to me since I've used them

5/5 from Unattainium

[poornamelessme]

They aren't killing the altcoin market in my opinion, but yeah, they and all exchanges could be a bit more choosey with what coins they decide to list. They could also vet them a bit more closely, both code-wise and as far as proposed features.

That said, the strong will survive, the weak will die off. So it sort of levels out in the end. They should give low volume coins a bit more time to get their act together, but if you look at the majority of delisted coins, many were coins that really didn't offer anything new besides a coin name/meme, or have much in the way of active development. Which is pretty much exactly what many in that shitcoin killing group want to occur anyway, but instead of relying on forking or whatever it was they proposed, the market simply takes care of it.

Where bittrex could improve is in regard to their coin ipos. They should use the same rules  Polo now uses, no funds to the dev unless he is using them for what he says he will.

[Wulfcastle]

The main reason for the major decline in volume is due to Bitcoin's declining price. When BTC does badly all alts follow suit, the next time we will see volume like "the good 'ol days" is when Bitcoin prices start increasing by larger amounts again and more investors are lured into the alt-coin market expecting bigger ROI's.

Cryptsy used to handle most of the volume, currently MintPal generally handles the most volume. You can't blame exchanges for adding coins that are performing well, regardless how shit the coin is. At the end of the day the exchange has to be profitable, that's all that matters to them.

[PolarPoint]

There are just too many altcoins and exchanges do not have the resources to list all of them. So they delist the alts with the lowest volume. I think that is fair.

The main reason why alts are not given enough time on the exchanges because they are listed too early when development is not complete.

[testcoin]

They aren't killing the altcoin market in my opinion, but yeah, they and all exchanges could be a bit more choosey with what coins they decide to list. They could also vet them a bit more closely, both code-wise and as far as proposed features.

That said, the strong will survive, the weak will die off. So it sort of levels out in the end. They should give low volume coins a bit more time to get their act together, but if you look at the majority of delisted coins, many were coins that really didn't offer anything new besides a coin name/meme, or have much in the way of active development. Which is pretty much exactly what many in that shitcoin killing group want to occur anyway, but instead of relying on forking or whatever it was they proposed, the market simply takes care of it.

Where bittrex could improve is in regard to their coin ipos. They should use the same rules  Polo now uses, no funds to the dev unless he is using them for what he says he will.

In fact, Poloniex is now my favor exchange over Bittrex

At least Poloniex doesn't rush to delist coins that just listed for a few trading days. And even a coin gets delisted on Poloniex, you don't have to withdraw within a short timeframe and your funds are still safe there

Now Bittrex's quick listing/delisting business model does have a real impact on the whole altcoin market. Since Bittrex is taking more and more trading volumes, I can see that some other exchanges are trying to list new coins at a faster pace in order to compete with Bittrex

Therefore if the same trend continues, you can expect most (if not all) exchanges will eventually join the quick listing/delisting party

Welcome to the crazy altcoin world  

[poornamelessme]

In fact, Poloniex is now my favor exchange over Bittrex

At least Poloniex doesn't rush to delist coins that just listed for a few trading days. And even a coin gets delisted on Poloniex, you don't have to withdraw within a short timeframe and your funds are still safe there

Now Bittrex's quick listing/delisting business model does have a real impact on the whole altcoin market. Since Bittrex is taking more and more trading volumes, I can see that some other exchanges are trying to list new coins at a faster pace in order to compete with Bittrex

Therefore if the same trend continues, you can expect most (if not all) exchanges will eventually join the quick listing/delisting party

Welcome to the crazy altcoin world  

I like both polo and bittrex. Bittrex has actually improved quite a bit since when it started, as at the time I wasn't sure they'd be more than any of the baby-sized exchanges (atomic trade, austin, etc). Their layout is a bit weird, but it has grown on me. Although I think bittrex could give more time to struggling coins, it's an exaggeration to say they delist them after just a couple of days. Usually it's 1-3 months, or more. There are plenty of coins on bittrex that really has lasted longer than they should (hongkong and Quebeccoin come to mind).

As for delisting, we all sort of knew that was coming at some point. Exchanges couldn't list 5000 coins all at one time. The odd thing is we have some people complaining about too many coins on the exchanges, and others complaining that exchanges are delisting too many coins. It could be argued that exchanges should simply list less coins to begin with, wait until coins have been around longer, and although I agree with that mindset, I think in practice it wouldn't work out so well. We'd just have another cryptorush spring up, where they list every single coin out there, as soon as possible. At least with bittrex they are delisting the junkier coins.

[rugrats]

I've had a thought, it wasn't more than a few months ago when some coins would have several thousand BTC volume a day over various exchanges easily, whereas today it seems they don’t go above 500 BTC often. Back in the day Cryptsy didn't used to have total volume, but I'm sure they did over 10K BTC on a number of days on just DOGE alone and this was around when BTC was priced at around $1K. All the altcoin exchanges seem to have lower volume more recently.

In my mind it appears that the dynamic has gone from heavily trading established older coins to speculating on brand new coins. While this isn't a problem if the new coins are good, in reality it is just opening a huge window for coin developers to scam users and to let them get away with it too.

I’ve been studying the exchange Bittrex, which looks to be gaining in popularity, and they appear to be adding around 2 coins a day at the moment. This is a crazy pace to be adding new markets and doesn't give a chance for the coins added a few days back to even have a chance to grow. Furthermore they seem to remove markets quite quickly too, so the coin could be in and out before you know it, leaving many users holding coins that no longer have any value at all.

The bigger problem however seems that this is attracting bad developers to create coins that promise the world and yet deliver nothing. The formula appears to be quite simple: Create a coin with an exciting name and has some new feature coming soon (whitepaper seems to be hot these days), take a premine, get added to an exchange after gaining some hype during the small mining period and then dumping the premine and running away once the price is high enough and there are enough buy orders.

Of course once a user has been burnt like this, they are far less likely to invest again in altcoins, thus surely turning away a large number of users each time. I've been trading cryptocurrency for over seven months now, and this sort of thing didn't exist widely back then, I now feel scared to pick up a new coin as it’s hard to say whether it’s genuine or will result in the developer abandoning it. I can only correlate this change to exchanges like Bittrex supporting these scams.

It would be harsh to only blame Bittrex for this, as the other exchanges, Cryptsy, Mintpal, Poloniex, etc. are all somewhat at fault too, but I think Bittrex has the largest proportion of scams and still is adding coins at an unbelievable rate. I find it odd that users seem to be supporting Bittrex and others while they do this, as it could lead to the downfall of altcoin trading based on the changes I've seen...

To be honest, I didn't really have a good impression of Bittrex at the start.
But during a discussion we had concerning the listing of Minerals last month, he said something really, really heartwarming.

"bittrex-richie: Lilac: yeah i've been watching it... trust me.. id rather not see you guys deposit BTCs in that place
for the safety of your btc"

I may not agree with his (or Rami's ) decisions occasionally, but I feel some comfort knowing that he does think about the welfare of us traders.

Ditto with Polo. Tristan may be a little lacking in the PR department, but he showed some brass balls after Polo was hacked a while back.

Yes, they do share some blame for the current state of affairs, but I believe they are also learning as they grow. In Bittrex's case, have you noticed despite the increase in volume and coin listed, the site is still relatively fast? I think those new coins are financing the servers there.

The bigger problem though, in my opinion (as I've outlined here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=687349.20), is the unrelenting flood of coins by new alts. If we can subdue that raging torrent, I suspect the exchanges will automatically correct themselves.

[coine_smithe]

only the strong will survive.

its a free market, Bittrex doesn't decide which coin is successful or fails. Its the market that decides. you can't blame Bittrex.

- If developers aren't doing enough to build and maintain their communities, that's the devs fault not Bittrex.
- If a coin pumps and dumps because of a scam whitepaper, that is not Bittrex's fault.
- If volume moves from coin to coin because whales are at work, that is not Bittrex's fault.
- If a dev dumps a premine, that is not Bittrex's fault.

What can you do to help? Well its simple:

- only support the coins you like
- support coins with strong honest devs and strong communities with promising tech.
- don't support scam whitepaper coins (VEIL comes to mind)
- don't support premine scam coins
- don't support ninja launched, instamined, block reward halving, early PoW ending scam coins.

The ones that do will continue to get scammed and will hopefully learn their lesson. Bittrex has been fair on adding every coin and giving every coin a chance, whether it turns out to be a scam or not.

Everyone should do their due diligence and invest accordingly. Stop blaming the exchanges.

End of topic. These people whining about Bittrex need to stop.

[worriedtrader]

I really hate the people who say its up to the user to do their research. Why are we relying on these people who are buying these scam coins anyway? The problem can be stopped at the source. It's fine if one coin out of a large number turns out to be bad as it's hard to spot that, but I think maybe 3 of the last 5 coins Bittrex have added have been thought to be scams?

If we let it continue as it is, more and more users will leave the market and altcoin trading slowly dies.

[drippx]

Its definitely not bittrexs fault

But bittrex does favor the scammers more than they do the average traders

[poornamelessme]

I wouldn't say they are killing the altcoin market as they basically just filled the niche leftover when cryptorush exploded. But they are doing a much better job at running an exchange than cryptorush, hence the increased volume. They should be pickier with what they choose to list, but if they weren't listing them, some other exchange would.

What they may be killing is their own ICO model, however. They have been running too many, too close together, with no safeguards in place besides making sure the wallet works. Their last one didn't even get off the ground as they ran it right after Iceberg tanked.

[worriedtrader]

Its definitely not bittrexs fault

But bittrex does favor the scammers more than they do the average traders

I think its partly their fault for listing the scam coins, partly the users that buy them and partly the users that still support them while they continue to do this.

[worriedtrader]

Yet another scam coin... It's getting ridiculous, why are they still giving a chance to these scam developers? Take a little more care in what is added.

[cassius69]

come on people.

of course these scams on bittrex are destabilizing the market.

when u lose 100% of your money on a trade are you eager to return to trade again?

people have lost so much in july that they are quitting trading altogether.

wake up before its too late.