How we crypto-geeks get it wrong & the reality of altcoin success.

[First.Bitcoins]

A LONG READ - skip to summary at bottom if you want

Background - I first discovered bitcoin in Sept 2013, lurked for a while, bought & sold on localbitcoins.com, watched the altcoin explosion, traded some coins, learned.

The other day on the Poloniex Troll Box, I saw a brilliant comment that summed it all up, "What difference does a new algo make for XXX (insert name here) coin, when next week there will be a newer one?"

Every other comment on the Troll box & these forums runs along the lines of, "XXX coin is no clone, the Dev created 7 new algos, the coin will soar - to da moon!" Of course that is rebutted in days with, "Yeah but XXX2 coin flips those algos sideways & upside down - to da moon!"

Ah, we geeks just don't get it!

The user community for a coin only cares technically about two things:
     - Is it easy to use
     - is it secure

And an engaged user community is the only thing that will give an altcoin longterm success

ALL the others, with all their new technology claims, only serve one purpose: mine them fast, pump & dump, convert to bitcoin... Next!
Although the battle for the anon coins is worth some investment, IMHO

There are only two legitimate reasons for an altcoin:
     - it is technologically advanced enough to replace, or partially replace bitcoin
     - it serves a niche market

This post is about niche coins and what it takes to succeed in that environment.



A DISCLAIMER BEFORE YOU KEEP READING - I would like to explain what it is like out in the real world, building a longterm user community, and as a coin Dev can really only speak from my experience. I won't give details about the coin (you can get those from my sig if interested) but can't really tell the story without some reference to it.


First hurdle: When we explain our coin to potential users (artists in our case), we used to compare it, "It's like Bitcoin... have you heard of bitcoin?"
Amazingly, 80% say no, and for the 90% who say yes, bitcoin is a negative.
The comment we most often get is, "yeah bitcoin is that Ponzi scheme, right?" When asked where they heard that, they say, "somewhere on the news"

Now we present it as a digital currency (they don't get the term "crypto") that works similarly to an airline mileage reward card, you can earn AppleBytes and convert them to cash or buy things..." They get that, and it sounds safe to them.


The next hurdle, surprised me. They like the idea, and want to know how to get started. So we tell them to download the wallet app (we had to call it an app, because they get very confused with all our cryptocurrency techno babble: wallet, faucet, pool, etc).

Half may join, but the other half of them immediately say, "oh no, I won't download anything to my computer, it may have a virus"
So in addition to MAC, Windows, Android, we have to give them an online wallet. That way they will join, then later we can educate them about security issues on our forum.


The next hurdle is the battle of the two disparate economies in the cryptocurrency world.
One economy is the miners, capable of mining significant quantities of a coin. Their aim for the most part is simple, mine the most profitable coin and convert to bitcoin. A legitimate strategy, and I don't blame them. I have been one of them.

The other is the user economy, and though we made it easy with built in CPU pool mining in the wallet (and some other tricks to limit the impact of ASICs, etc), they can only mine a hundred or so a day, not thousands. For them you have to provide the opportunity to spend their coins at a much higher Satoshi conversion rate than the miners are swapping them (at least in the beginning). There are ways to do that, but that is not what this post is about. And telling them to trade the alt for bitcoin on some exchange and then to cash, is not one of them.


And last is the dreaded "P" word - premine!
Now my comments may surprise you. It is not premine that is evil, it is how it is used.
The two wrong ways that cause a coin to ultimately fail are these:
     - Devs are paid with it
     - There is an Air Drop

The first leads to nothing but Pump & Dump
The second leads to a rapid devaluation and kills the coin

It can be used, spread over many years for legitimate purpose to serve the user community.


IN SUMMARY: We crypto geeks have to get reality! To succeed longterm, a coin must address these issues:

1. Users only care about ease of use & security, they really don't care about our x1186SHAPOWPOS, inverted 3x algo
2. Recognize the two disparate economies of cryptocurrencies (Miners vs Users)
3. Solve how a coin gets into the real users wallets, not the miners/traders
4. Give the users something do with the coin

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[Nullu]

99.9% of users of altcoins only care about one thing; Bitcoin.

That's why most alts fail. It doesn't matter how innovative the coin is, if it gains in value, there's enough people to drive it to the ground. It happens time and time again.

If you wanted a coin to have any long term value, you'd keep it off exchanges, and focus entirely on building infrastructure to use the coin directly for purchasing goods and services.

[TiberiuC]

Innovations come out of altcoins all the time, most of them are useless but few are good and will help. Almost all coins will die but the innovations will remain.
I don't know if the next big crypto will be decided by users and will not be created like altcoins are now.

[First.Bitcoins]

I disagree that 99.9% of the users here are only interested in BTC. I think both the <Nullu> and <TiberiuC> posts above, show the two prevailing thoughts.

One group (maybe half or a little more, imo) have heavy investments in mining gear and do want to flip the alts to BTC as fast as possible, and there is nothing wrong with that. Miners are critical to longterm success.

But I think there is a group that is almost as big, who missed out on the bitcoin surge, and are hoping to find, if not the next one, at least a few profitable ones.

And that is what my post was about, what will it take to be one of the profitable ones?

[profitofthegods]

I Definitely agree. Any coin which mainly appeals to miners and doesn't focus on appealing to end users cannot succeed in the long term, because miners are almost always net sellers of coin, even the ones who really like the coin and want to keep some (because they need to pay their costs). You need to have as many buyers as sellers to maintain the price and more buyers than sellers to see it rise - which means miners must always be in the minority for a coin to succeed. Also if your main appeal is an elegant solution to a progamming problem you are not going to find a big audience, because most people aren't programmers.

[razen489]

I fully agree, value of a coins go like this. But i still look at BTC as a safe haven. Grooveshark just announced that they are accepting it today
More utility, more ways to spend it, stable price

[smalltimer]

The user community for a coin only cares technically about two things:
     - Is it easy to use
     - is it secure

+is it inflationary?
We are a long way away from average joe. This is still the time of early investors - and an investor worth his salt will ask "what is the inflation"?

because in the end of the day it's about the price.

-> Unobtanium

Enduser doesn't give a flying about algo as long it is secure.

[garmin]

I do have an Idea for a coin.. Cigarette coin [CIG] but it would need an Android wallet from the rip... so you could use it on the street.
I'm a smoker, many of my friends are smokers... They all have one thing in common, they mooch my Cigarette's and steal my lighters. LOL
I personally could use a android Cigarette mooch tracker app. CIGcoin could do that. And It doesn't hurt that Cigarette's are a 500bn dollar a year worldwide  industry. The value could be one Cigarette. Trade a CIG for a Cigarette or vice versa. fuck the exchanges! most coins have little to zero street use, only exchange value. But I'm not a DEV so it will stay an idea unless I can find a DEV to create it or steal it from me... Lol

I think it has some of the quality's u mention in the OP. And it has a real world use, as long as the bureau of ATF don't freak out about it.

 

[profitofthegods]

I do have an Idea for a coin.. Cigarette coin [CIG] but it would need an Android wallet from the rip... so you could use it on the street.
I'm a smoker, many of my friends are smokers... They all have one thing in common, they mooch my Cigarette's and steal my lighters. LOL
I personally could use a android Cigarette mooch tracker app. CIGcoin could do that. And It doesn't hurt that Cigarette's are a 500bn dollar a year worldwide  industry. The value could be one Cigarette. Trade a CIG for a Cigarette or vice versa. fuck the exchanges! most coins have little to zero street use, only exchange value. But I'm not a DEV so it will stay an idea unless I can find a DEV to create it or steal it from me... Lol

I think it has some of the quality's u mention in the OP. And it has a real world use, as long as the bureau of ATF don't freak out about it.

 

You should look into making an app based on Ripple for this. Ripple is all about issuing IOUs, so someone could use the app to send you 1 CIG to your Ripple wallet when they mooch one, and that means you have one IOU for a cigarrette which you can either redeem from them, or even trade it and pass it onto other people so they could end up paying back the mooched cigarrette to someone else.

[garmin]

I do have an Idea for a coin.. Cigarette coin [CIG] but it would need an Android wallet from the rip... so you could use it on the street.
I'm a smoker, many of my friends are smokers... They all have one thing in common, they mooch my Cigarette's and steal my lighters. LOL
I personally could use a android Cigarette mooch tracker app. CIGcoin could do that. And It doesn't hurt that Cigarette's are a 500bn dollar a year worldwide  industry. The value could be one Cigarette. Trade a CIG for a Cigarette or vice versa. fuck the exchanges! most coins have little to zero street use, only exchange value. But I'm not a DEV so it will stay an idea unless I can find a DEV to create it or steal it from me... Lol

I think it has some of the quality's u mention in the OP. And it has a real world use, as long as the bureau of ATF don't freak out about it.

 

You should look into making an app based on Ripple for this. Ripple is all about issuing IOUs, so someone could use the app to send you 1 CIG to your Ripple wallet when they mooch one, and that means you have one IOU for a cigarrette which you can either redeem from them, or even trade it and pass it onto other people so they could end up paying back the mooched cigarrette to someone else.

It would need fast transaction and conformation. I'm Not a real ripple guru, but the IOU feature fit's the idea. 

[PereguineBerty]

99.9% of users of altcoins only care about one thing; Bitcoin.

That's why most alts fail. It doesn't matter how innovative the coin is, if it gains in value, there's enough people to drive it to the ground. It happens time and time again.

If you wanted a coin to have any long term value, you'd keep it off exchanges, and focus entirely on building infrastructure to use the coin directly for purchasing goods and services.

VERY well said, some great points there.

The #1 objective for most users, whether they're miners, devs, speculators, etc is to increase their wealth in Bitcoins. Altcoins are a means of achieving this and that's pretty much all it seems to boil down to as far as altcoins are concerned.

[Nullu]

99.9% of users of altcoins only care about one thing; Bitcoin.

That's why most alts fail. It doesn't matter how innovative the coin is, if it gains in value, there's enough people to drive it to the ground. It happens time and time again.

If you wanted a coin to have any long term value, you'd keep it off exchanges, and focus entirely on building infrastructure to use the coin directly for purchasing goods and services.

VERY well said, some great points there.

The #1 objective for most users, whether they're miners, devs, speculators, etc is to increase their wealth in Bitcoins. Altcoins are a means of achieving this and that's pretty much all it seems to boil down to as far as altcoins are concerned.

Nobody wants to admit it, because everyone wants to protect their assets. I was very enthusiastic when I first joined the cryptocurrency community. I got involved in a lot of promising coins. They all suffered the same fate. They rised, and then they crashed. Most altcoins aren't about innovation. They're about novelty. To make it seem like they're worth something. What's feeding a lot of these coins is the mindset that they will continue to go up in value. That's why coins with new features are so popular.

A lot of people also make the mistake in thinking coins that have died were inherently flawed, or had something wrong with them. In some cases, yes, but in most cases it's simply a matter of what I've explained above. Eventually the dumping begins, and the coin goes into a downward spiral. There are just way too many altcoins to support. People mine, dump and move on. The people who end up financially better off are the ones who know when to dump the coin and move on, while time and time again, I see people holding out hope that the price will go back up. So many bagholders, all caught in this disillusion that their currency will rise again. In 99% cases, they don't, and this is how people profit. They leave you holding the bag, while they're left holding the bitcoin.

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but that is the cold honest truth. Take it from someone who's seen it time and time again. Anyone who tells you otherwise either doesn't understand the way things work here, or is intentionally lying to you. Ever heard of penny stock scams? People will tell you the sky is green if it means they can make a profit from it. A collective group of bag holders, all telling one another their worthless currency is worth something, while others swoop in, mine those coins, and dump them.

That said, there are a small, and I mean very small selection of coins that may have future value. If your coin is less than a couple of months old, then it's 99% unlikely to be that coin. Any coin that can last six months, or a year, and still be left standing has value. Most new coins die. That's a fact. There are more and more coins, further and further diluting the market. Further stretching the bitcoin support across them. They're just penny stocks. The money will always be in bitcoin, or perhaps the top handful of coins beneath it in terms of market share. Everything else is temporary.

[Djentriser]

Give the users feeling of uniqueness. Its called marketing 

[profitofthegods]

I do have an Idea for a coin.. Cigarette coin [CIG] but it would need an Android wallet from the rip... so you could use it on the street.
I'm a smoker, many of my friends are smokers... They all have one thing in common, they mooch my Cigarette's and steal my lighters. LOL
I personally could use a android Cigarette mooch tracker app. CIGcoin could do that. And It doesn't hurt that Cigarette's are a 500bn dollar a year worldwide  industry. The value could be one Cigarette. Trade a CIG for a Cigarette or vice versa. fuck the exchanges! most coins have little to zero street use, only exchange value. But I'm not a DEV so it will stay an idea unless I can find a DEV to create it or steal it from me... Lol

I think it has some of the quality's u mention in the OP. And it has a real world use, as long as the bureau of ATF don't freak out about it.

 

You should look into making an app based on Ripple for this. Ripple is all about issuing IOUs, so someone could use the app to send you 1 CIG to your Ripple wallet when they mooch one, and that means you have one IOU for a cigarrette which you can either redeem from them, or even trade it and pass it onto other people so they could end up paying back the mooched cigarrette to someone else.

It would need fast transaction and conformation. I'm Not a real ripple guru, but the IOU feature fit's the idea.  

Ripple has near instant transaction times. If you go down that route you could also allow people to send IOUs to friends for other things, like a beer or a meal, and post offers to trade like: I will trade 10 cigs (10 cig IOUS, issued by someone else or themselves) for 1 beer. You could have it so that the app presents relevant offers from their friends, so if they had 10 cigarrette IOUs in their app wallet it would tell them that their mate John was willing to trade them for a beer.

You can only receive IOUs from people you have formally trusted for that asset so you could only trade someone elses cig IOU with someone else who knows and trusts that same friend. This would protect people from being owed things by or owing things to someone they don't know.

I know a bit about Ripple and have been active in the community for a while, and thought about doing something like this myself in the past, but I tried and pretty much failed to learn how to write code and I can't afford to pay for a developer. If you do go ahead with this and decide to use Ripple I would love to be a part of it in some way and help you with concept development and community relations / marketing in the Ripple community.

EDIT: Just noticed that you said yourself your not a dev. Any App developers out there want to work with us on this?

[TaunSew]

99.9% of users of altcoins only care about one thing; Bitcoin.

That's why most alts fail. It doesn't matter how innovative the coin is, if it gains in value, there's enough people to drive it to the ground. It happens time and time again.

If you wanted a coin to have any long term value, you'd keep it off exchanges, and focus entirely on building infrastructure to use the coin directly for purchasing goods and services.
[/quote

Yes.  I've witnessed so many PoW coins get killed off by professional miners within weeks of their launch. 
There's frankly more people looking for a quick buck than determined long term holders.

[Ezravdb]

XST Stealthcoin is a new face in the anonymity scene

[garmin]

I do have an Idea for a coin.. Cigarette coin [CIG] but it would need an Android wallet from the rip... so you could use it on the street.
I'm a smoker, many of my friends are smokers... They all have one thing in common, they mooch my Cigarette's and steal my lighters. LOL
I personally could use a android Cigarette mooch tracker app. CIGcoin could do that. And It doesn't hurt that Cigarette's are a 500bn dollar a year worldwide  industry. The value could be one Cigarette. Trade a CIG for a Cigarette or vice versa. fuck the exchanges! most coins have little to zero street use, only exchange value. But I'm not a DEV so it will stay an idea unless I can find a DEV to create it or steal it from me... Lol

I think it has some of the quality's u mention in the OP. And it has a real world use, as long as the bureau of ATF don't freak out about it.

 

You should look into making an app based on Ripple for this. Ripple is all about issuing IOUs, so someone could use the app to send you 1 CIG to your Ripple wallet when they mooch one, and that means you have one IOU for a cigarrette which you can either redeem from them, or even trade it and pass it onto other people so they could end up paying back the mooched cigarrette to someone else.

It would need fast transaction and conformation. I'm Not a real ripple guru, but the IOU feature fit's the idea.  

Ripple has near instant transaction times. If you go down that route you could also allow people to send IOUs to friends for other things, like a beer or a meal, and post offers to trade like: I will trade 10 cigs (10 cig IOUS, issued by someone else or themselves) for 1 beer. You could have it so that the app presents relevant offers from their friends, so if they had 10 cigarrette IOUs in their app wallet it would tell them that their mate John was willing to trade them for a beer.

You can only receive IOUs from people you have formally trusted for that asset so you could only trade someone elses cig IOU with someone else who knows and trusts that same friend. This would protect people from being owed things by or owing things to someone they don't know.

I know a bit about Ripple and have been active in the community for a while, and thought about doing something like this myself in the past, but I tried and pretty much failed to learn how to write code and I can't afford to pay for a developer. If you do go ahead with this and decide to use Ripple I would love to be a part of it in some way and help you with concept development and community relations / marketing in the Ripple community.

EDIT: Just noticed that you said yourself your not a dev. Any App developers out there want to work with us on this?

That would be cool. I was thinking about hitting BCT Member: VUAL up on this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=625225.0 he does android wallets and a bunch of other stuff, not sure how ripple savvy he is tho.. Going clubbing tonight so I will hit him up 2mro. Any other dev's feel free to PM me or profitofthegods. It would be cool to get somthing going for  [CIG] Cigarette coin  

Thanks to the OP for the motivation!

[profitofthegods]

I do have an Idea for a coin.. Cigarette coin [CIG] but it would need an Android wallet from the rip... so you could use it on the street.
I'm a smoker, many of my friends are smokers... They all have one thing in common, they mooch my Cigarette's and steal my lighters. LOL
I personally could use a android Cigarette mooch tracker app. CIGcoin could do that. And It doesn't hurt that Cigarette's are a 500bn dollar a year worldwide  industry. The value could be one Cigarette. Trade a CIG for a Cigarette or vice versa. fuck the exchanges! most coins have little to zero street use, only exchange value. But I'm not a DEV so it will stay an idea unless I can find a DEV to create it or steal it from me... Lol

I think it has some of the quality's u mention in the OP. And it has a real world use, as long as the bureau of ATF don't freak out about it.

 

You should look into making an app based on Ripple for this. Ripple is all about issuing IOUs, so someone could use the app to send you 1 CIG to your Ripple wallet when they mooch one, and that means you have one IOU for a cigarrette which you can either redeem from them, or even trade it and pass it onto other people so they could end up paying back the mooched cigarrette to someone else.

It would need fast transaction and conformation. I'm Not a real ripple guru, but the IOU feature fit's the idea.  

Ripple has near instant transaction times. If you go down that route you could also allow people to send IOUs to friends for other things, like a beer or a meal, and post offers to trade like: I will trade 10 cigs (10 cig IOUS, issued by someone else or themselves) for 1 beer. You could have it so that the app presents relevant offers from their friends, so if they had 10 cigarrette IOUs in their app wallet it would tell them that their mate John was willing to trade them for a beer.

You can only receive IOUs from people you have formally trusted for that asset so you could only trade someone elses cig IOU with someone else who knows and trusts that same friend. This would protect people from being owed things by or owing things to someone they don't know.

I know a bit about Ripple and have been active in the community for a while, and thought about doing something like this myself in the past, but I tried and pretty much failed to learn how to write code and I can't afford to pay for a developer. If you do go ahead with this and decide to use Ripple I would love to be a part of it in some way and help you with concept development and community relations / marketing in the Ripple community.

EDIT: Just noticed that you said yourself your not a dev. Any App developers out there want to work with us on this?

That would be cool. I was thinking about hitting BCT Member: VUAL up on this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=625225.0 he does android wallets and a bunch of other stuff, not sure how ripple savvy he is tho.. Going clubbing tonight so I will hit him up 2mro. Any other dev's feel free to PM me or profitofthegods. It would be cool to get somthing going for  [CIG] Cigarette coin  

Thanks to the OP for the motivation!

Cool. Ripple has a bunch of Javacript APIs and I'm lead to believe its not too difficult to deal with. Let me know what he says.

[MicroGuy]

Innovations come out of altcoins all the time, most of them are useless but few are good and will help. Almost all coins will die but the innovations will remain.
I don't know if the next big crypto will be decided by users and will not be created like altcoins are now.

I feel the greatest success will come from the coin that your average consumer embraces. Build a coin that is tailored for the consumer and you will have great success. Build an innovative client with built-in support for other coins and you will conquer.

https://www.gldtalk.org/index.php?topic=2616.0

[Gleb Gamow]

Reading the OP now, and like, especially the niche aspect. Can't wait to read the rest, hoping I'm not disappointed. Thanks.

[First.Bitcoins]

99.9% of users of altcoins only care about one thing; Bitcoin.

That's why most alts fail. It doesn't matter how innovative the coin is, if it gains in value, there's enough people to drive it to the ground. It happens time and time again.

If you wanted a coin to have any long term value, you'd keep it off exchanges, and focus entirely on building infrastructure to use the coin directly for purchasing goods and services.

VERY well said, some great points there.

The #1 objective for most users, whether they're miners, devs, speculators, etc is to increase their wealth in Bitcoins. Altcoins are a means of achieving this and that's pretty much all it seems to boil down to as far as altcoins are concerned.

The mistake we make here, is that we view this forum as the world. It is not. As we have found in pounding the streets, building our user base, 80% of those we talk to, do not even know what bitcoin is.

I don't believe we need to go so far as removing an altcoin from the exchanges, as market liquidity is important. Just recognize that the value set by the members of this forum is miniscule compared to the potential longterm value of a successful altcoin.

[First.Bitcoins]

An update from the field...

We have had so many support requests from users who just can't get their head around concepts (that we crypto geeks take for granted) like wallets, mining, blocks, pools, faucets; that we had to add a section in our forum, walking them through each step, just one at a time.

You can see that here, if interested: Getting Started

As I posted at the beginning of this thread, these users have no interest at all in the latest algorithms, etc. that we crypto geeks are so proud of.

[AliceWonder]

bitcoin desperately needs at least one alternative.

Business needs to keep incoming separate from outgoing because bitcoin can be traced through the blockchain.

Using mixers might be illegal in the US, even if your intent is not to launder money, it seems using services where the purpose is to obfuscate the source might violate money laundering laws.

A stable altcoin allows you to sell incoming btc for that altcoin on one exchange and buy bitcoin with that altcoin on another exchange for your outgoing, thus keeping incoming and outgoing compartmentalized.

There probably need to be several successful altcoins.

Also, having just one crypto-currency is a single point of failure should a serious problem occur in bitcoin that prevents buying/selling with it.

[virtualx]

bitcoin desperately needs at least one alternative.

Business needs to keep incoming separate from outgoing because bitcoin can be traced through the blockchain.

Using mixers might be illegal in the US, even if your intent is not to launder money, it seems using services where the purpose is to obfuscate the source might violate money laundering laws.

A stable altcoin allows you to sell incoming btc for that altcoin on one exchange and buy bitcoin with that altcoin on another exchange for your outgoing, thus keeping incoming and outgoing compartmentalized.

There probably need to be several successful altcoins.

Also, having just one crypto-currency is a single point of failure should a serious problem occur in bitcoin that prevents buying/selling with it.

There are so many alt coins.. it's not just one alternative anymore. There's just so many out there - that the average user doesn't know which one to pick, except for BTC

But I think some alt coins serve special interests groups, as a value for exchange.

[GreenBacksTeam]

We believe that another key is for it to be completely open-source and to have the community innovative and execute. Too many alts rely 100% on the creator to do all the work, but the coins that truly succeed including Bitcoin have communities who contribute. 1 person can only develop and code so many features over a month, but 10 people working on 10 projects might be release 6 things in a month and keep a coin relevant. this is something we are focusing on with GreenBacks once we launch.

[Triffin]

An update from the field...

We have had so many support requests from users who just can't get their head around concepts (that we crypto geeks take for granted) like wallets, mining, blocks, pools, faucets; that we had to add a section in our forum, walking them through each step, just one at a time.

You can see that here, if interested: Getting Started

As I posted at the beginning of this thread, these users have no interest at all in the latest algorithms, etc. that we crypto geeks are so proud of.

+100

Mass adoption = simple, intuitive, secure, useable WALLET
If you build it .. They will come ..

Triff ..  

[First.Bitcoins]

I have to post this, it is just too funny, and illustrates my point about the foolishness of crypto geeks.
I just read this in the Poloniex Exchange Chat Box (I have removed the real userids):

xxxxx1: redd is about to go PoSV in what, 8 or 9 days?
xxxxx2: august 3rd, so 10 days I think
xxxxx1: yeah 10 days. I suggest investing as much as you can into redd and holding out to sell as high as you can

Yep, like the user community really cares about PosV?!?!?  

[djarot]

"Although the battle for the anon coins is worth some investment, IMHO"

Fine words OP and couldn't agree more, especially with the above line. I hope the rest of guys involved with anon coins become as level-headed as you in helping the coins and the technologies behind them achieve awesome things!

[Nxtblg]

We believe that another key is for it to be completely open-source and to have the community innovative and execute. Too many alts rely 100% on the creator to do all the work, but the coins that truly succeed including Bitcoin have communities who contribute. 1 person can only develop and code so many features over a month, but 10 people working on 10 projects might be release 6 things in a month and keep a coin relevant. this is something we are focusing on with GreenBacks once we launch.

Then keep your eye on Nxt. An active dev community is precisely what they have going for them.

[Nxtblg]

99.9% of users of altcoins only care about one thing; Bitcoin.

That's why most alts fail. It doesn't matter how innovative the coin is, if it gains in value, there's enough people to drive it to the ground. It happens time and time again.

If you wanted a coin to have any long term value, you'd keep it off exchanges, and focus entirely on building infrastructure to use the coin directly for purchasing goods and services.

VERY well said, some great points there.

The #1 objective for most users, whether they're miners, devs, speculators, etc is to increase their wealth in Bitcoins. Altcoins are a means of achieving this and that's pretty much all it seems to boil down to as far as altcoins are concerned.

Nobody wants to admit it, because everyone wants to protect their assets. I was very enthusiastic when I first joined the cryptocurrency community. I got involved in a lot of promising coins. They all suffered the same fate. They rised, and then they crashed. Most altcoins aren't about innovation. They're about novelty. To make it seem like they're worth something. What's feeding a lot of these coins is the mindset that they will continue to go up in value. That's why coins with new features are so popular.

A lot of people also make the mistake in thinking coins that have died were inherently flawed, or had something wrong with them. In some cases, yes, but in most cases it's simply a matter of what I've explained above. Eventually the dumping begins, and the coin goes into a downward spiral. There are just way too many altcoins to support. People mine, dump and move on. The people who end up financially better off are the ones who know when to dump the coin and move on, while time and time again, I see people holding out hope that the price will go back up. So many bagholders, all caught in this disillusion that their currency will rise again. In 99% cases, they don't, and this is how people profit. They leave you holding the bag, while they're left holding the bitcoin.

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but that is the cold honest truth. Take it from someone who's seen it time and time again. Anyone who tells you otherwise either doesn't understand the way things work here, or is intentionally lying to you. Ever heard of penny stock scams? People will tell you the sky is green if it means they can make a profit from it. A collective group of bag holders, all telling one another their worthless currency is worth something, while others swoop in, mine those coins, and dump them.

That said, there are a small, and I mean very small selection of coins that may have future value. If your coin is less than a couple of months old, then it's 99% unlikely to be that coin. Any coin that can last six months, or a year, and still be left standing has value. Most new coins die. That's a fact. There are more and more coins, further and further diluting the market. Further stretching the bitcoin support across them. They're just penny stocks. The money will always be in bitcoin, or perhaps the top handful of coins beneath it in terms of market share. Everything else is temporary.

Thanks for opening up. I've noticed something like that myself, although I've pegged it as fad-chasing. You are right in that there are some striking parallels between the altcoin "Wild West" and the - regulated! - penny stock market. You can't outlaw human nature...

With respect to the coin I'm involved with, the plain Nxt clone NFD, its blah debut and current listlessness is actually a blessing in disguise. It's a pump-free coin, and I'd rather it stay that way. Gives me and the rest of the dev tem some time to think things through - as in, "would this feature be a real innovation, or are we just chasing the Flying Fickle Finger of Fashionable Fads?" And it also gives me the time I'll need to leave the echo chamber, pound the virtual pavement and find out a few things about the outside world.

Like it or not, folks, the seamy side of life around here will eventually be found out about by the outside world. One Reputation Management lesson I'll never forget was seeing Busoni become a folk hero around here simply by manning up to the Poloniex hack and publicly admitting the truth. 

[atoni]

I dont think you crypto geeks get it wrong, your op is perfectly right

It seems only coin that meets your criteria is wankcoin, you can actually use it for something while infront of your pc coding

[Nxtblg]

A DISCLAIMER BEFORE YOU KEEP READING - I would like to explain what it is like out in the real world, building a longterm user community, and as a coin Dev can really only speak from my experience. I won't give details about the coin (you can get those from my sig if interested) but can't really tell the story without some reference to it.

Thanks for your report. Yes, I'm sure you're facing a challenge: the same kind of challenge I'll be facing with respect to NFD when I start pounding the virtual pavement. That "Ponzi scheme" buzz is pretty much what I expected after losing 0.5 BTC on JuggaloCoin. That coin had - for this part of the world - a huge amount of mainstream press going for it when it launched. I remember being skeptical about its prospects, as I was worried that the Juggalo community would scoff and reject it. But sure enough, the dev of the coin really was a Juggalo in his heart - he had a good heart - and I was charmed by the backstory of the band. Growing up poor ain't easy, but the ICP guys got through it.

So I bought 0.5 BTC's worth, saw the coin's lackluster debut, and then waited for the inevitable. I don't think it's even listed anymore. Another 0.5 BTC down the drain, which could have saved in this case by remaining skeptical. In fact, a post in a Juggalo forum about JuggaloCoin had a lot of scoffing - including some skeptical words from one of the mods - which was similar to the skepticism you faced.

It sounds like your strategy is an elaboration of "roll with the punch," which is pretty wise.

[oldmarsh]

I think you are looking at this the wrong way because most altcoins aren't actually striving for mass user adoption and to build a lasting currency, they are largely just created as pump-and-dump schemes to make people money (either the devs or some traders). And the large majority of people who trade altcoins do it for profit and don't ever actually use the coin (not that you could if you wanted to for many coins anyway). I know when I was trading/mining alts I probably had over 20 different wallets over that period of time and never made any transactions other than sending coins to and from exchanges or mining pools. So alt traders make their money from people who get tricked into believing a certain altcoin was made for any other reason than to make these people money.

I've seen the altcoin scene quickly devolve since the release of Dogecoin at the end of 2013. The release of new gimmicky coins started to really pick up around that point and then went into full force in early 2014. And it is almost now 100% about creating the next pump-and-dump that will make you a profit. Kind of sad really as people trying to launch a legitimate coin, like it seems you might be trying to do, just get drowned out by all the scamcoins.

[Amph]

XST Stealthcoin is a new face in the anonymity scene

Its a piece a shit and ripoff from cloakcoin.

lol your nick

[First.Bitcoins]

I've seen the altcoin scene quickly devolve since the release of Dogecoin at the end of 2013. The release of new gimmicky coins started to really pick up around that point and then went into full force in early 2014. And it is almost now 100% about creating the next pump-and-dump that will make you a profit. Kind of sad really as people trying to launch a legitimate coin, like it seems you might be trying to do, just get drowned out by all the scamcoins.

Well said. But I think it's a matter of one's investment goals. If you want to profit from short-term trades (riding the pump & dump), or if you want to invest long-term. But those goals must be clear.

The hottest new algo may give you a chance to profit from short-term volatility, but don't kid yourself, that hyped new coin, will die in a few weeks when another technological advance replaces it. If you want to invest long-term, it's the user community, the ones who actually spend the coins that will make the difference.

[Viper1]

This thread was like a breath of fresh air frankly. +1

[okbit]

There is an old saying about success of retail stores - The secret is location, location, location!

If I may paraphrase for altcoins - It would be community, community, community!

[Nxtblg]

There is an old saying about success of retail stores - The secret is location, location, location!

If I may paraphrase for altcoins - It would be community, community, community!

Yes. Dogecoin, leaving aside its current grindingly slow bear market, did teach us that.

[meganite]

I've seen the altcoin scene quickly devolve since the release of Dogecoin at the end of 2013. The release of new gimmicky coins started to really pick up around that point and then went into full force in early 2014. And it is almost now 100% about creating the next pump-and-dump that will make you a profit. Kind of sad really as people trying to launch a legitimate coin, like it seems you might be trying to do, just get drowned out by all the scamcoins.

Well said. But I think it's a matter of one's investment goals. If you want to profit from short-term trades (riding the pump & dump), or if you want to invest long-term. But those goals must be clear.

The hottest new algo may give you a chance to profit from short-term volatility, but don't kid yourself, that hyped new coin, will die in a few weeks when another technological advance replaces it. If you want to invest long-term, it's the user community, the ones who actually spend the coins that will make the difference.

+1
It is indeed a choice, and they are almost always mutually exclusive. The times that they are, you know that you have a keeper on your hands.

[nextgencoin]

The fact is some technical developments do make a difference to the user experience and security.

Qora has decentralised trading which is planned to become anonymous so obviously you have there the possibility to trade all kinds of things including a gold, fiats, companies etc. All in a decentralised way that can't be observed or depend on completely insecure trading sites.

In a word. Technology matters.


Don't confuse the unimportance and gimmicky nature of mining algos to real developments that are going to mature cryptocurrencies to the next level. I love Bitcoin but anyone who knows much about Bitcoin knows it has some serious technological limitations that need to be solved. Qora solves these limitations.

People are right to hype a cryptocurrencies because one or a few of them are likely to go from what is a tiny tiny minuscule market to potentially global mainstream usage. The thing people get wrong however is they hype coins with technical gimmicks that no one but miners and freaks will care about later. It's all about user friendliness and function. That's why I'm so positive about Qora cause ai think the developer understands this and is quietly making what could well be the next financial revolution work.

[First.Bitcoins]

There is an old saying about success of retail stores - The secret is location, location, location!

If I may paraphrase for altcoins - It would be community, community, community!

Yes. Dogecoin, leaving aside its current grindingly slow bear market, did teach us that.

I agree, Doge indeed is the leader in a community focused coin. Despite all the negative comments in these forums, Doge taught us all something about building a user community.

[djarot]

There is an old saying about success of retail stores - The secret is location, location, location!

If I may paraphrase for altcoins - It would be community, community, community!

Yes. Dogecoin, leaving aside its current grindingly slow bear market, did teach us that.

I agree, Doge indeed is the leader in a community focused coin. Despite all the negative comments in these forums, Doge taught us all something about building a user community.

yes, though I wonder how much of doge is down to the brand, not community itself. for example, I thinking of cryptonote coins eg monero which has strong community sure, but no real brand. However, with a strong brand you need someone to manage it, and doge's recovery i think will show us whether its example really is something we can all learn from or not...

[hodlbananas]

This is a very interesting read - I was wondering what's happening with some of the main players in altcoins, though it would be a shame to see the likes of Doge etc. go so suddenly, if indeed it's on the cards. As others said, Bitcoin needs some kind of alternative surely!

[profitofthegods]

Dogecoin was a victim of its own success.

The whole point in Dogecoin was that it was mostly just a bit of fun - nothing to take seriously. As long as that was true it was successful, but then as soon as it started shooting up in value and people started realizing that their coins were valuable and others started thinking it was an opportunity to profit, then it was innevitable that people would start taking it seriously - and that was the death knell of the Doge.

Whether Dogecoin recovers in price is something entirely separate from whether Dogecoin should be considered successful, because it was never supposed to be valuable, and it was never supposed to be an investment or make people rich.

[blockjoe]

2014 is the year where the multipools and big farms have killed the fragile equilibrium between buyers and sellers of the alternates. I don't think that 99% of alternate owner want bitcoins; anyway multipools users, and a lot of big farms are only there for bitcoins. They are just there for massively dump everything they get, to get bitcoins, this game is only a short term strategy; after a few months of this game GPU mining don't even worth the electricity. We can just hope that these farms are doomed to close, with enough debts to stay out of cryptos.

We have also so many scams issues, lying in the software implementation for some (do you know a X11 POW coins that is really fair, without premined or equivalent implementation?), or coins with ICO scheme and, so on... Anyway the recovery will take months or years...

[Nxtblg]

Dogecoin was a victim of its own success.

The whole point in Dogecoin was that it was mostly just a bit of fun - nothing to take seriously. As long as that was true it was successful, but then as soon as it started shooting up in value and people started realizing that their coins were valuable and others started thinking it was an opportunity to profit, then it was innevitable that people would start taking it seriously - and that was the death knell of the Doge.

Whether Dogecoin recovers in price is something entirely separate from whether Dogecoin should be considered successful, because it was never supposed to be valuable, and it was never supposed to be an investment or make people rich.

I wouldn't count Dogecoin out. The shibe community has shrunk recently, but the holder-ons are just as undaunted. DOGE probably won't be an ace speculation, but it is going to be a "real" cryptocurrency...the poor man's Bitcoin.

[profitofthegods]

Dogecoin was a victim of its own success.

The whole point in Dogecoin was that it was mostly just a bit of fun - nothing to take seriously. As long as that was true it was successful, but then as soon as it started shooting up in value and people started realizing that their coins were valuable and others started thinking it was an opportunity to profit, then it was innevitable that people would start taking it seriously - and that was the death knell of the Doge.

Whether Dogecoin recovers in price is something entirely separate from whether Dogecoin should be considered successful, because it was never supposed to be valuable, and it was never supposed to be an investment or make people rich.

I wouldn't count Dogecoin out. The shibe community has shrunk recently, but the holder-ons are just as undaunted. DOGE probably won't be an ace speculation, but it is going to be a "real" cryptocurrency...the poor man's Bitcoin.

Good. I wouldn't count it out either.

[swainzag]

I'll say up front I haven't read the whole thread. 

Here is my problem with 99% of new altcoins.  They are just ideas.  Someone has a big idea, makes a coin, gets it on an exchange as quick as possible and most of the time the coin pumps and dumps and dies.  In my opinion for an alt coin right now to succeed a lot work must be done before it's announced and mined.  Software must be developed, games/casino/etc up the minute the coin launches, debit/credit cards with coins available right away, the blockchain and all wallets pre-made, etc. 

So many coins come out with nothing but a plan, gets some coins, makes some BTC and decided it's too much work to actually do what was purposed or never planned on doing it anyways.  There needs to be better use-ability in the now and not just in the present.  Just my 2 cents.

[profitofthegods]

I'll say up front I haven't read the whole thread. 

Here is my problem with 99% of new altcoins.  They are just ideas.  Someone has a big idea, makes a coin, gets it on an exchange as quick as possible and most of the time the coin pumps and dumps and dies.  In my opinion for an alt coin right now to succeed a lot work must be done before it's announced and mined.  Software must be developed, games/casino/etc up the minute the coin launches, debit/credit cards with coins available right away, the blockchain and all wallets pre-made, etc. 

So many coins come out with nothing but a plan, gets some coins, makes some BTC and decided it's too much work to actually do what was purposed or never planned on doing it anyways.  There needs to be better use-ability in the now and not just in the present.  Just my 2 cents.

Definitely agree with that. I just saw an IPO for something I think is called Checkcoin, and I thought the idea was really good and has huge potential, but I can't really justify giving them any money because it was exactly what you described - purely an idea with no evidence that they've done anything yet or that they are capable of doing what they say.

[First.Bitcoins]

I'll say up front I haven't read the whole thread. 

Here is my problem with 99% of new altcoins.  They are just ideas.  Someone has a big idea, makes a coin, gets it on an exchange as quick as possible and most of the time the coin pumps and dumps and dies.  In my opinion for an alt coin right now to succeed a lot work must be done before it's announced and mined.  Software must be developed, games/casino/etc up the minute the coin launches, debit/credit cards with coins available right away, the blockchain and all wallets pre-made, etc. 

So many coins come out with nothing but a plan, gets some coins, makes some BTC and decided it's too much work to actually do what was purposed or never planned on doing it anyways.  There needs to be better use-ability in the now and not just in the present.  Just my 2 cents.

Definitely agree with that. I just saw an IPO for something I think is called Checkcoin, and I thought the idea was really good and has huge potential, but I can't really justify giving them any money because it was exactly what you described - purely an idea with no evidence that they've done anything yet or that they are capable of doing what they say.

I agree. I have seen coins trading on exchanges that don't even have working Windows or MAC wallets. I can tell you from experience, to build a real user community, everything must work when it is released. The members of this forum may accept a period of stuff not working (perhaps because they are blinded by the hype), the user community, who are not familiar with cryptos will not.

[Triffin]

"I have seen coins trading on exchanges that don't even have working Windows or MAC wallets."

Seems to be a trend .. on purpose I think .. geeks only ..

Triff ..

[edu91]

I'll say up front I haven't read the whole thread.  

Here is my problem with 99% of new altcoins.  They are just ideas.  Someone has a big idea, makes a coin, gets it on an exchange as quick as possible and most of the time the coin pumps and dumps and dies.  In my opinion for an alt coin right now to succeed a lot work must be done before it's announced and mined.  Software must be developed, games/casino/etc up the minute the coin launches, debit/credit cards with coins available right away, the blockchain and all wallets pre-made, etc.  

So many coins come out with nothing but a plan, gets some coins, makes some BTC and decided it's too much work to actually do what was purposed or never planned on doing it anyways.  There needs to be better use-ability in the now and not just in the present.  Just my 2 cents.

Definitely agree with that. I just saw an IPO for something I think is called Checkcoin, and I thought the idea was really good and has huge potential, but I can't really justify giving them any money because it was exactly what you described - purely an idea with no evidence that they've done anything yet or that they are capable of doing what they say.

I did agree with your statement but after having mail contact i was pretty convinced that these guys are really trying to pull this thing off the ground, and just to make sure that this is not another scam team i tried to call them and that also was a success. I spoke to the same guy that mailed me. I asked them again about the future plans and what the plans are considering the IPO. They told me everything that they were planning to do and specified almost every investment they needed to do to let this idea be a success. So I’m pretty convinced that this could be a good investment and a great idea for the crypto world. After all the confirmations I feel very comfortable to invest so I invested 1 btc for 25.000 Checkcoin.

So thumbs up for me!

[profitofthegods]

I'll say up front I haven't read the whole thread.  

Here is my problem with 99% of new altcoins.  They are just ideas.  Someone has a big idea, makes a coin, gets it on an exchange as quick as possible and most of the time the coin pumps and dumps and dies.  In my opinion for an alt coin right now to succeed a lot work must be done before it's announced and mined.  Software must be developed, games/casino/etc up the minute the coin launches, debit/credit cards with coins available right away, the blockchain and all wallets pre-made, etc.  

So many coins come out with nothing but a plan, gets some coins, makes some BTC and decided it's too much work to actually do what was purposed or never planned on doing it anyways.  There needs to be better use-ability in the now and not just in the present.  Just my 2 cents.

Definitely agree with that. I just saw an IPO for something I think is called Checkcoin, and I thought the idea was really good and has huge potential, but I can't really justify giving them any money because it was exactly what you described - purely an idea with no evidence that they've done anything yet or that they are capable of doing what they say.

I did agree with your statement but after having mail contact i was pretty convinced that these guys are really trying to pull this thing off the ground, and just to make sure that this is not another scam team i tried to call them and that also was a success. I spoke to the same guy that mailed me. I asked them again about the future plans and what the plans are considering the IPO. They told me everything that they were planning to do and specified almost every investment they needed to do to let this idea be a success. So I’m pretty convinced that this could be a good investment and a great idea for the crypto world. After all the confirmations I feel very comfortable to invest so I invested 1 btc for 25.000 Checkcoin.

So thumbs up for me!

They have a telephone and an email address??!!! Damn those guys really mean business. That's an impressive resume right there.

Btw I'm not saying they are a scam or that they can't deliver, just that I didn't really feel confident enough in what I saw to put my money on the line. And it really is a good idea so I don't want to put people off taking a look and making up their own minds on this.

[Nxtblg]

I'll say up front I haven't read the whole thread. 

Here is my problem with 99% of new altcoins.  They are just ideas.  Someone has a big idea, makes a coin, gets it on an exchange as quick as possible and most of the time the coin pumps and dumps and dies.  In my opinion for an alt coin right now to succeed a lot work must be done before it's announced and mined.  Software must be developed, games/casino/etc up the minute the coin launches, debit/credit cards with coins available right away, the blockchain and all wallets pre-made, etc. 

So many coins come out with nothing but a plan, gets some coins, makes some BTC and decided it's too much work to actually do what was purposed or never planned on doing it anyways. 

You're absolutely right. Strangely, this scene is a lot like Internet Marketing. A guide on "How I Got Rick Quick And How You Can Too" sells like hotcakes. The favourite methods are "sniper" sales Websites which have a short shelf life because they essentially rely on a cunning trick - typically, fooling Google into giving them a page-1 ranking - which lasts only as long as Google's anti-spam team finds out about it and the big G updates their algo to make the trick obsolete.

There's very few people who are interested in putting in the heavy lifting and long-term legwork to make a solid business. Advice along that line is really unpopular, even if it comes from a fully established Internet Marketer who pulls in six figures per year. 

[YarkoL]

You're absolutely right. Strangely, this scene is a lot like Internet Marketing.

The comparison is interesting. Internet marketing has been around
longer than crypto scene and is somewhat more matured now. The problem there
is that so many people are making money on internet teaching people how to make money on internet
(by teaching people how to make money on internet.. you get the idea...)
... but the demand is shifting more and more towards legit and sustainable business operations.
Gaming the search engines is too demanding now, it is left in the province of very shady people
who are prepared to spend lots of money and move fast.

Crypto simply hasn't reached that point in its evolution yet. Maybe
a day will come when we too speak about "white hat" vs "black hat" devs as they do
in IM. 

[First.Bitcoins]

And the madness continues...

I saw a post on the ANN forum, that said XXXcoin (which will remain nameless), the original x15 coin....

Really? You guys think the users care?

[kelsey]

Lets be honest, pretty much the entire alt community is comprised of 3 groups;

group A) mine anything that will get them more BTC (and thus fiat),

who sells to;

group B) the missed the BTC boat crowd.


group c) the 3 people making all these crap coins and coming up with innovative stories to suck both A) and B) in

[First.Bitcoins]

+100 <kelsey> That is the best summary I have seen about altcoin development!

But I would add a category, I know there are a handful of Devs working hard to develop a real user community.

As I posted at the start of this thread, success on the street, in the real world, is very different from what most members of this forum think.

[megashira1]

I believe this thread is worthy of further discussion. bump

[First.Bitcoins]

Yes, the disease is still rampant. Here is an actual post from one of those "What coin should I buy" threads (names removed)

"xxxcoin is stupidly undervalued. I expect a big rise soon when it implements xxx feature"

[kattekop]

Example: POTcoin
Multipools dump it once in a while, and addicts buy the thing up again to spend in the stores..

[First.Bitcoins]

Saw this post by <gustav> in another thread discussing new coins with new features, and agree with it completely.

"features are secondary as long as they are not gamechangers and mayor (happens maybe once a year maximum). Money doesn't need 'features' - money needs 'security', reliability, solidity, stability and userbase/ acceptance"

[First.Bitcoins]

Quoted from a thread in the Bitcoin discussion section:

There is one step that is known to make it more "likely" that a U.S. consumer will purchase and use Bitcoins.

• Motivate them to download a Bitcoin wallet.

"I don't want to download anything to my PC, it could have a virus". Surprisingly this is the number one objection we get from new users.

So in the building the user community, we have created a simple two step process to get them started:

1. Sign up for the online wallet (less scary for them)
2. Go to our faucet for some coins to get started.

Once they do that, they are curious, so on our forum they can find places to spend their coins, we can teach them that a downloaded wallet is more secure, etc.

[djarot]

Saw this post by <gustav> in another thread discussing new coins with new features, and agree with it completely.

"features are secondary as long as they are not gamechangers and mayor (happens maybe once a year maximum). Money doesn't need 'features' - money needs 'security', reliability, solidity, stability and userbase/ acceptance"

agreed, though i would moderate with a comment i read here http://cointelegraph.com/news/112425/new-cryptocoin-to-sponsor-serie-a-football-team by "Alexandre" - "How many telephone numbers in the yellow pages? How many websites? How many business cards? The right question is : which one serves the right purpose?" - nice!!

[First.Bitcoins]

Ah yes the saga continues even in the anon coin race...

Quoted from a post by nomoreheroes7 in another thread: "why the fuck does XXXcoin (real name deleted)  get so much attention on these boards? It's anonymous...so the fuck what? Anon coins are last season, no one gives a fuck"


I remind everyone of how I started this thread back in July:
"The other day on the Poloniex Troll Box, I saw a brilliant comment that summed it all up, "What difference does a new algo make for XXX (insert name here) coin, when next week there will be a newer one?"


It is not the "innovation" that gives long term value to a coin, it is the real user community!

[digitalindustry]

IN SUMMARY: We crypto geeks have to get reality! To succeed longterm, a coin must address these issues:

1. Users only care about ease of use & security, they really don't care about our x1186SHAPOWPOS, inverted 3x algo
2. Recognize the two disparate economies of cryptocurrencies (Miners vs Users)
3. Solve how a coin gets into the real users wallets, not the miners/traders
4. Give the users something do with the coin

Quark partially achieved all this, which is why it is the success it is now.

there is more than can be done, and there are many other crypto working towards this no doubt.

but just at the moment Quark is the leader.

[DieJohnny]

why do we use amex over visa.... the benefits

for payments the only reason to choose one currency over another is how it benefits you. Acceptance, speed, money back/miles...

Those are the only reasons alts exist is to try and beat bitcoin on benefits to the end user

bitcoin for now wins on acceptance, loses on speed, and other benefits, so be careful bitcoin.

[First.Bitcoins]

XMR is yet another example of exactly what I meant when I started this thread.

I have nothing against it, know very little about it, and don't believe all the fud,
but I remember at the time I started this thread, it was the current darling of the new coins.

To paraphrase the Clinton campaign of years ago,  (it is the economy stupid)
it's not the technology, it's the user community that matters!

[CT_Rick]

Example: POTcoin
Multipools dump it once in a while, and addicts buy the thing up again to spend in the stores..

So pot coin is actually used in weed stores? get out of here?

that is a big thing for crypto no?

[TheMage]

I'm amazed that out of all of these posts Litecoin was not mentioned once considering it is the "Bitcoin of alts".

OP, I agree with you 100%!

[CoinHoarder]

I've spent more time debating this than I'd like to in the past (days and days), but I just thought I'd say... this crypto nerd disagrees with you. There is also a difference in between innovations and gimmicks, knowing how to tell the difference is the key to ALT coin investing. Most coins people suggest as being innovative are simply not, and even if they are it has to be innovative enough to break network effects. Relying on only one or several small innovations will have trouble competing with network effects, unless it is just truly revolutionary. Yet, an Alt coin needs a good combination of innovation and marketing to be successful. Leaving one or the other out is a recipe for disaster.

[devphp]

99.9% of users of altcoins only care about one thing; Bitcoin.

Only when price of Bitcoin rises all the time without long stagnation/sideways movements, like the one we're witnessing now. You argument may have been valid for 2009-2013, but 2014 has changed a lot of things.

[Oscilson]

99.9% of users of altcoins only care about one thing; Bitcoin.

Mining of Bitcoin is concentrated by big farms. We can only mine altcoins. We are searching for the next mineable/profitable all the time.

99.99% altcons do not have long life expectancy.

[marpom]

Mining of Bitcoin is concentrated by big farms. We can only mine altcoins. We are searching for the next mineable/profitable all the time. 99.99% altcons do not have long life expectancy

What do people think of NXT coin?

[devphp]

What do people think of NXT coin?

It's one of few alternatives to Bitcoin, designed to fix Bitcoin's flaws and bring new use cases to the crypto currency world.

[marpom]

From Ntx.org

.... and just keep your Nxt wallet open and online, you are forging! Forging is making the Nxt network stable and decentralized. When you are lucky, you will be able to generate a block and you will earn all the fee inside that block

Sounds great but uehhh.....no mining software and / or hardware.....just the wallet?!?!
 

[devphp]

From Ntx.org

.... and just keep your Nxt wallet open and online, you are forging! Forging is making the Nxt network stable and decentralized. When you are lucky, you will be able to generate a block and you will earn all the fee inside that block

Sounds great but uehhh.....no mining software and / or hardware.....just the wallet?!?!
 

Yes, just the wallet, to solo forge successfully you need at least 50k NXT (~$1000), the more you have - the better chance you have to generate a block (with 50k you will hit a block every 2 weeks on average). If you have less than 50k NXT, better lease to the forging pool so you don't get frustrated that you don't generate a block for a long time and the pool will calculate your average contribution. Leasing your balance to a pool means you're in full control of your NXTs, you only give away the forging power to the pool, not the actual coins.