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Author Topic: Bitcoin insurance company.  (Read 9106 times)
Anonymous
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August 03, 2010, 12:38:58 PM
 #1

I dont know how a bitcoin bank would work but a bitcoin insurance company might be something to pursue.The idea is that premiums are worked out based on the risk of losing wallets and the rate of fraud with paypal chargebacks and other calamities that could cause a loss of your wealth.You would pay a premium each month and cover a set rate of any losses you suffer.

Would you pay an insurance premium for such a service with bitcoins and what measures would the insurance company need to take to protect its members from fraudulent claims ?
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kiba
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August 03, 2010, 01:02:40 PM
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Would you pay an insurance premium for such a service with bitcoins and what measures would the insurance company need to take to protect its members from fraudulent claims ?

If I have sufficient cash flow and the risk warrant such insurance, I might try. BTW, shouldn't this be in the marketplace section?

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August 03, 2010, 01:11:42 PM
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If my wallet would be big enough I would take the insurance if it existed and only costed a small percentages of what I have.

The only problem is, how would the insurance company verify if you indeed lose your wallet?
How could they see if the amount you take the insurance for is really the amount you own?

I could take an insurance for 100.000BTC and than claim I lost my wallet.
How would you verify that this is true and not that I had only 50BTC at the moment I lost my wallet, or that I even lost it.

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Anonymous
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August 03, 2010, 01:20:48 PM
 #4

Would you pay an insurance premium for such a service with bitcoins and what measures would the insurance company need to take to protect its members from fraudulent claims ?

If I have sufficient cash flow and the risk warrant such insurance, I might try. BTW, shouldn't this be in the marketplace section?

Its not an actual business proposal.More of a discussion about the possibilities.The mods can move it if they like.
Anonymous
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August 03, 2010, 01:24:51 PM
 #5

If my wallet would be big enough I would take the insurance if it existed and only costed a small percentages of what I have.

The only problem is, how would the insurance company verify if you indeed lose your wallet?
How could they see if the amount you take the insurance for is really the amount you own?

I could take an insurance for 100.000BTC and than claim I lost my wallet.
How would you verify that this is true and not that I had only 50BTC at the moment I lost my wallet, or that I even lost it.

I imagine a copy of your wallet would be stored in their vault and would therefore lessen your premium....




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August 03, 2010, 02:27:30 PM
 #6

If my wallet would be big enough I would take the insurance if it existed and only costed a small percentages of what I have.

The only problem is, how would the insurance company verify if you indeed lose your wallet?
How could they see if the amount you take the insurance for is really the amount you own?

I could take an insurance for 100.000BTC and than claim I lost my wallet.
How would you verify that this is true and not that I had only 50BTC at the moment I lost my wallet, or that I even lost it.

I imagine a copy of your wallet would be stored in their vault and would therefore lessen your premium....

That would be, in effect, no different than gold storage fees.  Cheaper, sure, but ultimately, you would be paying to maintain their infrastructure for off-site backup of your wallet.  That would be the cheapest service.  It would also be the least secure.  So, a real insurance plan like you originally suggested would be a premium on your ability to maintain your own wallet.  Those premiums would be higher but more secure/anonymous.

Ta,
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August 03, 2010, 03:48:48 PM
 #7

In theory everyone knows the balance on every account and it is easy to verify "who owns an account" by having someone send you 0.01BTC from said account.

If said coins are "lost for ever" and an insurance payout is made and then those coins "start circulating again" you know there has been a fraud.   So as long as the insurance company knows the "real world identity" of the addresses being insured, then they can prosecute for fraud.

I suppose all that is really necessary is to "upload and encrypted wallet" to a 3rd party.  As long as you do not forget your password your "wallet" is safe.

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August 03, 2010, 04:29:36 PM
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In theory everyone knows the balance on every account and it is easy to verify "who owns an account" by having someone send you 0.01BTC from said account.

If said coins are "lost for ever" and an insurance payout is made and then those coins "start circulating again" you know there has been a fraud.   So as long as the insurance company knows the "real world identity" of the addresses being insured, then they can prosecute for fraud.

I suppose all that is really necessary is to "upload and encrypted wallet" to a 3rd party.  As long as you do not forget your password your "wallet" is safe.

It is impossible to persecute the person for fraud the usual way. So I guess one way is to tie it to your reputation somehow.

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August 04, 2010, 02:45:26 PM
 #9

Quote
In theory everyone knows the balance on every account and it is easy to verify "who owns an account" by having someone send you 0.01BTC from said account.
I doubt. Where did you see that everyone knows the balance of every account? Where did you see that recipient knows which 'account' money were received from? I think Bitcoin is much more anonymous than you think.

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August 04, 2010, 03:02:20 PM
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In theory everyone knows the balance on every account and it is easy to verify "who owns an account" by having someone send you 0.01BTC from said account.
I doubt. Where did you see that everyone knows the balance of every account? Where did you see that recipient knows which 'account' money were received from? I think Bitcoin is much more anonymous than you think.
This information is in the transaction record stored in the block chain.
It is not currently visible in the client frontend.
I think Bitcoin is much less anonymous than YOU think.
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August 12, 2010, 12:44:24 PM
 #11

I suppose by "accounts" you mean ECDSA public keys. While it's easy to verify any particular "account", an actively paying person will own hundreds of "accounts" and tracking one particular account will not disclose the rest. Moreover, the information you get by tracking a particular account will be useless after a few transactions.

Let's say I generated 50 bitcoins. I generated them by generating a ECDCA keypair (ADDR1), signing a transaction of 50 bitcoins with it and signing the resulting block with SHA256-based proof of work.

If then I send 0.01 BTC to you, Bitcoin puts a composite transaction: I generate a new address ADDR2 and send 49.99 BTC to it, and 0.01 is sent to you. So you will know that I own 2 keypairs.

But ADDR1 balance is zero, so it will never be used again, and the fact you know ADDR1 gives you nothing. So you only know that I own ADDR2.

Then ADDR2 sends 20.99 BTC to ADDR3 and 19.00 to ADDR4. You cannot know if I paid 20.99 or 19.00, so either address can be my own. I can even perform a transaction to myself, so both ADDR2 and ADDR3 will be mine.

So after 1 transaction you are not sure if I own 49.99, 20.99 or 19.00 BTC. And with every further transaction involving these addresses you will know less and less about me. 

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July 10, 2018, 11:40:59 AM
 #12

I dont know how a bitcoin bank would work but a bitcoin insurance company might be something to pursue.The idea is that premiums are worked out based on the risk of losing wallets and the rate of fraud with paypal chargebacks and other calamities that could cause a loss of your wealth.You would pay a premium each month and cover a set rate of any losses you suffer.

Would you pay an insurance premium for such a service with bitcoins and what measures would the insurance company need to take to protect its members from fraudulent claims ?
Too complicated. There are a lot of nuances. It will require a system to calculate the scammers.
a simple example: I will transfer tokens to another wallet. I'll compromise the secret key myself. And after that, I demand to pay the insurance.
How to detect such fraudulent transactions?

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July 10, 2018, 11:47:27 AM
 #13

I dont know how a bitcoin bank would work but a bitcoin insurance company might be something to pursue.The idea is that premiums are worked out based on the risk of losing wallets and the rate of fraud with paypal chargebacks and other calamities that could cause a loss of your wealth.You would pay a premium each month and cover a set rate of any losses you suffer.

Would you pay an insurance premium for such a service with bitcoins and what measures would the insurance company need to take to protect its members from fraudulent claims ?

As long as there is a $ component (i.e. salaries to employees, payments to suppliers, legal fees in $ etc..) then its a problematic model. If the entire operation runs on bitcoins then its no different than other insurance companies and its possible.
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July 10, 2018, 12:28:23 PM
 #14

I dont know how a bitcoin bank would work but a bitcoin insurance company might be something to pursue.The idea is that premiums are worked out based on the risk of losing wallets and the rate of fraud with paypal chargebacks and other calamities that could cause a loss of your wealth.You would pay a premium each month and cover a set rate of any losses you suffer.

Would you pay an insurance premium for such a service with bitcoins and what measures would the insurance company need to take to protect its members from fraudulent claims ?

I don't know the reasons why you asked this question but the whole idea seems stillborn to me, just like the one about banks providing loans in crypro (frankly, it is even less feasible). It looks kinda impossible given bitcoin's anonymous nature, so I really doubt anyone would seriously consider running such a business unless they are in fact pursuing what they should take measures against, that is fraudulent claims and schemes.

The only problem is, how would the insurance company verify if you indeed lose your wallet?
How could they see if the amount you take the insurance for is really the amount you own?

I think you would have to use a multisignature wallet, if such exist. But then it would have very little to do with insurance.
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July 14, 2018, 06:46:21 PM
 #15

I just keep coming back to the biggest problem of all. One in which I actually had Ethereum stolen from me out of Coinbase and never was reimbursed. Even fortune and CNBC did a story on it. So risk of loss for normal consumers is a massive gaping hole to overall broad consumer adoption. There’s a reason people get home or car insurance. Or insurance on wedding rings. A ring versus a USB wallet are similar objects that both could create fraud but how do I protect my ultimate downside risk from catastrophe, theft, loss for hardware/non-hardware wallets. Being my own bank is not something most consumers want. Hence the reason they don’t bury dollars in the back yard. Some do of course but that’s the minority.

I just don’t know what we are to do? Especially since investing in the space is so risky. Has prevented me from getting back in. Any tips, ideas, or otherwise would be greatly appreciated! Thanks all!
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July 26, 2018, 09:52:28 AM
 #16

Hong Kong AIA Insurance Company joins block R3 blockchain
York-based R3, blockchain startup reported that a prominent banking group has now added AIA Hong Kong Life Insurance.
Blockchain startup R3 is continuing the breakthrough recruitment of Asian financial institutions with the addition of AIA Group, Hong Kong life insurance company to the list of members around the globe.
AIA Group, the largest independent listed independent Asia insurance group, will work with 50 of the world's largest financial institutions, including banks, to develop blockchain commercial applications for the industry. Financial services industry.
CEO R3 David Rutter talks about the diversity of the blockchain membership network, beyond geography. He declared:
By partnering with a broad range of non-bank organizations, in addition to our extensive banking partners, we will ensure that technology is developed in our laboratories that represent the Different interests and vast requirements of players in the global financial ecosystem.
The global network of R3 partners will be "united in the laboratory environment" at the R3 research and development stage and Research Center, where the blockchain Corda smart deal has been delivered. .
Specialized R3 volumes in areas including scaled accounting, security and scalability studies, AIA Operations Supervisor Simeon Preston said:
R3 provides us with the ability to understand together with other leading organizations in financial services the potential applications of blockchain technology in the world and especially the Asia-Pacific region. .
In recent times, R3 has added the first Chinese member to the group. Ping An Group, China's second largest insurer, joined SBI Holdings of Japan and South Korea's Hana Financial, an R3-led Asian bank. R3 also added the first Latin American member to the Brazilian bank Itaú Unibanco, in April 2016.
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July 26, 2018, 10:02:47 AM
 #17

I think these insurance companies are state officials because they want to take the power to change the face value of copper bitcoins.
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August 15, 2018, 04:24:02 AM
 #18

I can't think of insuring my Bitcoin at the Bank.
Means that the Bank must also have my private key for them to store.

What if they bring Bitcoin running, I know the insurance bank is hacked?
LOL
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December 03, 2018, 09:18:36 AM
 #19

The idea is still in the status of "planned." We can wait a long time to launch this product. I think it makes sense to pay attention to currently existing services.
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