Bitcoin Forum
December 03, 2016, 04:56:40 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.13.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Banning spammers from the Marketplace section  (Read 2015 times)
Mike Hearn
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1526


View Profile
March 16, 2012, 12:50:06 PM
 #1

I've noticed an uptick in threads selling things like botted Twitter followers, YouTube accounts, etc.

I hereby move that people selling services which violate third party websites ToS should be removed for the following reasons:

  • They are spammers. Nobody likes spam.
  • They typically work around abuse controls via botnets, which is illegal.
  • They therefore bring the Bitcoin forums into disrepute.
  • There are other, dedicated forums where spammers can sell their services anyway.

I work on anti-abuse as part of my day job. I am not surprised or annoyed that Bitcoin is being used this way (the most common payment form for these services I see is LR/WebMoney/Paypal actually), but we should try and keep bad guys off of bitcointalk.org specifically.
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1480741000
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1480741000

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1480741000
Reply with quote  #2

1480741000
Report to moderator
1480741000
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1480741000

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1480741000
Reply with quote  #2

1480741000
Report to moderator
1480741000
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1480741000

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1480741000
Reply with quote  #2

1480741000
Report to moderator
rjk
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 420


1ngldh


View Profile
March 16, 2012, 04:52:13 PM
 #2

I've noticed an uptick in threads selling things like botted Twitter followers, YouTube accounts, etc.

I hereby move that people selling services which violate third party websites ToS should be removed for the following reasons:

  • They are spammers. Nobody likes spam.
  • They typically work around abuse controls via botnets, which is illegal.
  • They therefore bring the Bitcoin forums into disrepute.
  • There are other, dedicated forums where spammers can sell their services anyway.

I work on anti-abuse as part of my day job. I am not surprised or annoyed that Bitcoin is being used this way (the most common payment form for these services I see is LR/WebMoney/Paypal actually), but we should try and keep bad guys off of bitcointalk.org specifically.
While some such as dropboxexpander can provide a useful service, I agree that should not be allowed since it disregards the ToS of the site being exploited (Dropbox). I support this motion, and hope the marketplace can become a little cleaner.

Mining Rig Extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] Dead project is dead, all hail the coming of the mighty ASIC!
Maged
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1260


View Profile
March 16, 2012, 04:52:50 PM
 #3

I totally agree. However, it'll at least have the following implications, as you currently have the rule worded:
1) You wouldn't be able to sell game currency.
2) You wouldn't be able to sell game accounts.
3) You might not be able to buy/sell PayPal money for bitcoins (Bitcoin is against their ToS).

As such, this is a more complex issue than it appears to be. It's also a question on what we want to allow, as a community. I don't really know the answer here.

koin
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 874


View Profile
March 17, 2012, 04:15:33 AM
 #4

It's also a question on what we want to allow, as a community.

it's a democracy?

anyway, for reference the posts that describe the current policies: Marketplace rules and guidelines: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3629.0
and Forum moderation policy: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20333.0
theymos
Administrator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2492


View Profile
March 17, 2012, 04:21:08 AM
 #5

I lean toward enforcing the free-speech principle as purely as possible and allowing such posts, though I'm willing to enforce new policy on this matter if the community wants it.

I totally agree. However, it'll at least have the following implications, as you currently have the rule worded:
1) You wouldn't be able to sell game currency.
2) You wouldn't be able to sell game accounts.
3) You might not be able to buy/sell PayPal money for bitcoins (Bitcoin is against their ToS).

As such, this is a more complex issue than it appears to be. It's also a question on what we want to allow, as a community. I don't really know the answer here.

It'd also make moderation much more difficult, since mods would have to make decisions on issues like those. Probably the rule would need to be less inclusive and more specific than just "violates a site's ToS".

1NXYoJ5xU91Jp83XfVMHwwTUyZFK64BoAD
koin
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 874


View Profile
March 17, 2012, 04:50:48 AM
 #6

we should try and keep bad guys off of bitcointalk.org specifically.

is that a suggestion that has the goal to improve Bitcoin's image and perception in general or is that a suggestion that enabling that kind of activity could put the bitcointalk.org forum in harms way like it being targeted for liability in a suit or puts it at risk of otherwise unwanted attention?
Mike Hearn
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1526


View Profile
March 18, 2012, 06:52:24 PM
 #7

I don't think there'd be any legal liability created. But it looks bad to have people promoting tools and services that exist only to "game the system" at other sites.

I'd be OK with restrictions on the other things Maged mentioned. There's lots of things that can be bought and sold with Bitcoin that don't annoy other people or companies. If a company wants to restrict the sale of in-game items or whatever, it's their game / their rules.
NothinG
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 560



View Profile
March 18, 2012, 07:00:39 PM
 #8

What if we say anything that would be highly illegal?
Botnets are highly illegal, but then again...depends on where you live. :\

Stephen Gornick
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1988



View Profile
May 22, 2012, 06:16:12 AM
 #9

Example:

Selling two Twitter Accounts
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=82860.0

Maged
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1260


View Profile
May 22, 2012, 06:22:22 AM
 #10

Example:

Selling two Twitter Accounts
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=82860.0
It's not that we don't understand the examples that's the problem. It's properly defining a rule so that there aren't any unintended consequences.

72289
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 293


View Profile
May 22, 2012, 06:38:20 PM
 #11

Sure, but what about the folks selling obviously illegal substances? Xanax is illegal in the US and most western European countries without a prescription. Paypal will be tossed, and I'm sure if I look closely enough at MoneyPak's TOS that will be gone as well.

Also ALL of these SEO services would need to be banned if this was passed:

- Blog comments
- Yahoo commenting
- Xrumer (and all other forum/blog/profile link creating bots)
- Blog lists (yes, this is considered spamming technically)
- All Facebook services
- Simply advertising on these sites is technically against their TOS unless you go through the correct pipelines so simple advertising would need to be at least postponed until that could be discussed.

I've been doing SEO/SEM & advertising for years. I'm sorry some people here have a problem with techniques, which whether you like them or not, have been around for a fairly long time. If BitcoinTalk.Org doesn't want to expand into the realm of online marketing and optimization (which should be a massive market for BTC since it's a virtual & global currency) then that's fine.

My input.

malevolent
can into space
Staff
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1624



View Profile
May 22, 2012, 06:58:00 PM
 #12

If there is a good or service offered on these forums that you disapprove of don't buy/use it and don't talk about it. This is the best way you can fight someone, if there is no demand they will stop offering it. If you stop giving them free advertising less people will hear of them.  Smiley
72289
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 293


View Profile
May 22, 2012, 07:15:25 PM
 #13

If there is a good or service offered on these forums that you disapprove of don't buy/use it and don't talk about it. This is the best way you can fight someone, if there is no demand they will stop offering it. If you stop giving  them free advertising less people will hear of them.  Smiley

Well said.
Mike Hearn
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1526


View Profile
June 04, 2012, 09:20:40 AM
 #14

Yes, I don't think anyone is going to cry if your attempt to game Google with blog spam gets kicked off these forums. 72289 is exactly the kind of abuser who makes this forum and community look bad. The Bitcoin economy is big enough that there are plenty of goods and services available that don't implicitly involve being asshats, so why allow them to advertise here?
epbaha
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 82


View Profile
June 04, 2012, 05:40:59 PM
 #15

The moderators don't have the time to read every third party ToS and moderate accordingly.  Plus, bitcointalk.org moderators shouldn't be responsible for other site's problems.  The moderator's limited amount of time is better spent correctly identifying thieves, whom are more threatening to the growth of bitcoin than spammers.

ludo0777
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 42



View Profile WWW
June 09, 2012, 03:28:35 PM
 #16

Well I agree the forum shouldn't be used for bad things, but part of bitcoin is that it is anonymous and uncontrollable...  Undecided

If I've helped you then tip me!
1Lz67YM8apN4sTVMPrQDbFhBQNsKqnAjCY

Play the game and win up to 22.5x your bitcoins!
http://bit.ly/MYXJ4x

Get Free Instant bitcoins every hour!
http://mycryptcoin.com/?rid=1Pk3K1ZfXzsZvfwnL1bZyU3bvWdBJhi8Nu
officialsavage
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 154



View Profile
June 09, 2012, 04:19:26 PM
 #17

I agree with this to a point.  Using twitter as the example, Who gives a shit if someone sells another person a twitter account that has been pumped up with followers.  Worse case scenario that account gets shut down by twitter.  IMO.  I think right now the focus should be on carders.  Those people selling illegally obtained gift cards are putting the buyers at risk of persecution.  People are always looking for a deal, meaning there will always be someone willing to buy these gift cards at a huge discount.  I think that if the person selling those cards cannot prove where they got them in the OP then the ad should not be allowed.  There shouldn't be a whole thread of people calling the person a scammer and trying to get them to admit how they got them.  It should be a cut and dry rule that the OP needs to hold the proof of origin.
imsaguy
General failure and former
VIP
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 574

Don't send me a pm unless you gpg encrypt it.


View Profile WWW
June 09, 2012, 04:25:03 PM
 #18

Well I agree the forum shouldn't be used for bad things, but part of bitcoin is that it is anonymous and uncontrollable...  Undecided

Perhaps, but this forum isn't anonymous and it is controllable.

Coming Soon!™ © imsaguy 2011-2013, All rights reserved.

EIEIO:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60117.0

Shades Minoco Collection Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=65989
Payment Address: http://btc.to/5r6
weex
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 1097


Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled...


View Profile
June 12, 2012, 07:10:54 PM
 #19

I, have a hard time recommending professional contacts come here which is sad. It's one of the best places to learn about Bitcoin and get help.

If only we could identify better what is good for us and for the Internet. I think most of us can agree that spam in any form is bad and should not be supported here. I would like to see a paid section as well so I could recommend people pay $10-20 equivalent for year to reduce the noise level.

I second the original motion, ToS and all.

Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!