Libertarian National Convention in Las Vegas, May 2-6

[gabbynot]

Considering what's taking place here this weekend, I think I'm glad Bitcoin isn't making a showing.

http://reason.com/blog/2012/05/05/anarchy-at-the-libertarian-party-convent?nomobile=1

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[Tuxavant]

Now, consider our only success... Silk Road.

Mmmm no, Bitcoin is a success with almost every transaction made with it. I have no idea how many transactions there have been, but if we count in blocks, that's currently about 178915 successes.

[Tuxavant]

When people outside of this forum think of bitcoin, the majority have no idea what you are talking about.

Nope. I have plenty of success getting friends, family, and coworkers, who haven't been tarnished by bad/over investments, to understand what Bitcoin is and how it works.

Next in line is for hacking and theft at the major exchanges.  Next is the huge wallet theft.

I think most people can understand that when a brick and mortar merchant register gets robbed, it's ok to still use cash.

Next is the market volitility and  crash from $30 to $4 each that really made them laugh at the investors and speculators who got in right after gawker.

Market looks pretty stable now. How about refreshing your bag of arguments?

Then last we have the untracable and irreversible aspect that does nothing to protect them like thay have with credit based currency.

Hmmm. Cash has the same problem. Better stop using it too.

[BrightAnarchist]

If they do it in Vegas again I'll go, but I can't do it this year

Too bad because I live adjacent to the Red Rock

[Bitware]

Nope. I have plenty of success getting friends, family, and coworkers, who haven't been tarnished by bad/over investments, to understand what Bitcoin is and how it works.

Your friends and family are not a large portion of the population that would be required for bitcoin to go "mainstream". Your friends and family would be an infinitesimal niche in comparison.

I think most people can understand that when a brick and mortar merchant register gets robbed, it's ok to still use cash.

Most people rarely use cash anylonger. They mostly use either EFT/ACH, checks, or a debit/credit card. These, for the most part, protects them from fraud and theft and has controls as far as the funds in those accounts are concerned, and are quite often easily reversible in those cases.

Market looks pretty stable now. How about refreshing your bag of arguments?

I am not making arguments against bitcoin. I love bitcoin and believe in it. I am telling you what they think of bitcoin if they know about it and are not part of these forums or the bitcoins community. Absolutely the market looks stable NOW, but the damage has been done. Its how they PERCEIVE it that matters, and they percieve it negatively, as very risky, scammy, and that perception is part what prevents bitcoins from going mainstream.

Hmmm. Cash has the same problem. Better stop using it too.

again ... perception.... not my opinion of bitcoin but their perception of it.

They say, "... invisible money, made on a computer, based on absolutely nothing, irreversible transactions, hacking, theft, fraud, no regulation, no protection, with no oversight??? Sign me up! NOT ..."


all of which falls right in line with my post:

Bitcoin may never become mainstream until most businesses start accepting it for payments, banks deal in it, and the state accepts it for taxes (which is pretty much the definition of a valid currency).

Now, consider our only success... Silk Road.

and

When people outside of this forum think of bitcoin, the majority have no idea what you are talking about. The majority of those that do, say its used for illegal drugs and guns on Silk Road. Next in line is for hacking and theft at the major exchanges. Next is the huge wallet theft. Next is the market volatility and  crash from $30 to $4 each that really made them laugh at the investors and speculators who got in right after gawker. Then last we have the untracable and irreversible aspect that does nothing to protect them like thay have with credit/debt based currency.

So, ummm... yea.

You will always have success preaching to a choir.

Not that I dont think it cant change, but the items in my previous post needs addressed first, and I dont think that will be possible for a very long time, if ever.

[Tuxavant]

Your friends and family are not a large portion of the population that would be required for bitcoin to go "mainstream". Your friends and family would be a infinitesimal niche in comparison.

Yes, but not 300,000 Bitcoiners and their social network. and then their social networks, and so on, and so on. It will happen.

Most people rarely use cash anylonger. They mostly use either EFT/ACH, checks, or a debit/credit card. These, for the most part, protects them from fraud and theft and has controls as far as the funds in those accounts are concerned, and are quite often easily reversible in those cases.

I think you're living in a first world country. I'd bet "most" people, in the context of the world, use cash.

Absoltely the market looks stable NOW, but the damage has been done. Its how they PERCEIVE it that matters, and they percieve it negatively, as very risky, scammy, and that perception is part what prevents bitcoins from going mainstream.

There is a very limited number of people that had to live through that trough of disillusionment. We are now on the slope of enlightenment. The other 7 billion people on the planet that have not yet heard of Bitcoin have the benefit of jumping in on the Bitcoin pool when people can insightfully and logically relay the true state of the Bitcoin protocol - without the FUD caused by inflated expectations.

again ... perception.

Again, of a relatively small community, many with a bad taste in their mouth from inflated expectations. There are 7 billion other people who will come to learn of Bitcoin, with the hindesight of our mistakes to more correctly evaluate it as a means of value storage and transfer.

[Bitware]

you just made my argument for me.

again, I am all for bitcoins and I believe in it.

The majority does not...

businesses do not...

banks do not...

governments do not...

hopefully some day this will change.

you are preaching to the choir.

[Tuxavant]

you just made my argument for me.

No, I successfully argued that each transaction made in Bitcoin is a tribute to the success of Bitcoin and NOT just that silk road is "the only success in Bitcoin".

Now, consider our only success... Silk Road.

hopefully some day this will change.

That is the only logical, and nearly certain conclusion - not withstanding a catastrophic event like shutting down the Internet, or a meteor striking the earth and destroying civilization, of course. I say this because FUDsters can claim ponzi and silk road all day long, for now. But time may eventually reveal the security, functionality, and efficiency of Bitcoin as a store and transfer medium of value with benefits everyone will want to experience. And just as we've learned to keep safe from pickpockets, burglers, etc, information wants to be free, and we'll all eventually learn how to protect against Bitcoin fraud and ignorant mistakes.

[Bitware]

you can wish in one hand and shit in the other .. see which one fills up first.

all your wanting and wishing does not change how they perceive bitcoin.

They wont adopt or accept it unless those perceptions change.

and currently they see bitcoin as a way to launder dirty money, buy drugs from silk road, get cheated, scammed, stolen from, defrauded, and the whole system they think is insecure from the market volatility right on down to the inecure exchanges, thefts that ocurred, lack of regulation, lack of a suitable transaction confirmation process, unprotected irreversible transactions, and everything else I mentioned.

I speak of reality .. the way it is NOW ... and the hurdles we need to surmount.

You speak of how you want it to be and dream and hope it will be.

[Tuxavant]

This may be how YOU relay Bitcoin to your social circles, but I guarantee it's not how I represent Bitcoin. All the people that learn about Bitcoin from me have a very positive understanding of what it is, how it works, its vulnerabilities, mitigations, and history.

The reality is, there are a small number of people that hear the negative aspects of Bitcoin and say "no thanks" - yet there is a million more behind each one of those that have no opinion at all because they've never heard of it. If you really are a part of the choir, then you need to abandon this negative outlook and help the rest of us reach those 7 billion people before the genesis_blocks of the world do. Otherwise, no, you are not a part of the choir.

[Bitware]

This may be how YOU relay Bitcoin to your social circles, but I guarantee it's not how I represent Bitcoin. All the people that learn about Bitcoin from me have a very positive understanding of what it is, how it works, its vulnerabilities, mitigations, and history.

You must have reading comprehension problems. I never said I relay bitcoin in that light.

What I said was how the general public perceives it.

The reality is, there are a small number of people that hear the negative aspects of Bitcoin and say "no thanks" - yet there is a million more behind each one of those that have no opinion at all because they've never heard of it. If you really are a part of the choir, then you need to abandon this negative outlook and help the rest of us reach those 7 billion people before the genesis_blocks of the world do. Otherwise, no, you are not a part of the choir.

The small number of people are the ones making use of bitcoins. You, me, and everyone in this community. WE are the small number of people.

The vast majority of people who are not part of our community, but who HAVE heard of bitcoins perceive it exactly as I described in my previous posts.

I am a realist. I deal in truth and fact.

I do not alter reality to fit my hopes and dreams as you do.

It may very well turn out how we dream it to be concerning bitcoin, but that isnt our current reality.

Please realize the difference son.

[Tuxavant]

You must have reading comprehension problems. I never said I relay bitcoin in that light.

What I said was how the general public perceives it.

And you're wrong... The general public, to the tune of about 7 billion people, have no idea or preconception about Bitcoin. They've never heard of it yet. A relatively small portion of people who know about Bitcoin have a bad taste in their mouth from bad judgement.

The reality is, there are a small number of people that hear the negative aspects of Bitcoin and say "no thanks" - yet there is a million more behind each one of those that have no opinion at all because they've never heard of it. If you really are a part of the choir, then you need to abandon this negative outlook and help the rest of us reach those 7 billion people before the genesis_blocks of the world do. Otherwise, no, you are not a part of the choir.

Please realize the difference son.

And the patronizing comments don't bother me... it's a common trait of people on the losing side of an argument.

[Bitware]

You must have reading comprehension problems. I never said I relay bitcoin in that light.

What I said was how the general public perceives it.

And you're wrong... The general public, to the tune of about 7 billion people, have no idea or preconception about Bitcoin. They've never heard of it yet. A relatively small portion of people who know about Bitcoin have a bad taste in their mouth from bad judgement.

The reality is, there are a small number of people that hear the negative aspects of Bitcoin and say "no thanks" - yet there is a million more behind each one of those that have no opinion at all because they've never heard of it. If you really are a part of the choir, then you need to abandon this negative outlook and help the rest of us reach those 7 billion people before the genesis_blocks of the world do. Otherwise, no, you are not a part of the choir.

Please realize the difference son.

And the patronizing comments don't bother me... it's a common trait of people on the losing side of an argument.

your post is out of context and misrepresents. Read all my posts in this thread again. I am talking about the people who have heard of bitcoin and are not part of the bitcoin community. They perceive it exactly as I have stated.

Just because you dont agree with that perception does not mean its not reality.

Those perceptions are what we must combat to bring bitcoin mainstream.

Its not about what better or worse. What matters is perception. This is true in anything in life and business, else the world would be using non microsoft products, when most do. Ask yourself why. Perception.

[Tuxavant]

Read all my posts in this thread again.

LOL wat? Right. Once was plenty. Good day, sir.