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Author Topic: MTGox vs mysterious Russia  (Read 32269 times)
LZ
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May 01, 2011, 09:13:04 PM
 #41

It seems that someone wanted to reduce the exchange rate to buy bitcoins cheaper. Undecided

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May 02, 2011, 08:31:48 AM
 #42

Seems like we really need a decentralized exchange.

Yes, we do really need that. What's the point of having a p2p currency if we have to rely on centralized server to exchange it with other currencies.

We need a p2p forex market for btc. Who's up for this?

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May 02, 2011, 08:41:14 AM
 #43

Seems like we really need a decentralized exchange.

Yes, we do really need that. What's the point of having a p2p currency if we have to rely on centralized server to exchange it with other currencies.

We need a p2p forex market for btc. Who's up for this?
I think to an extent it's our own fault - we treat MtGox as the primary exchange for *all* currencies, though it only handles USD. During the recent rally we were calling GBP parity based on the GBP/USD rate and the MtGox USD rate: we were ignoring the GBP exchanges.

I'm tempted to mention bitcoin-otc, but that, of course is (a) an over-the-counter system, not an exchange, and (b) is also somewhat centralised (one website, one IRC server - correct me if I'm wrong). Could bitcoin-otc, or something similar, function on Diaspora? My thinking is, and I've used Diaspora for all of 30 seconds, is that we sign up to various decentralised Diaspora pods (multiple pods mean that the system can't be taken down simply by taking down one pod/server in one jurisdiction) and then create an "aspect" for trading bitcoins, and friend (I think Diaspora calls it "sharing") other bitcoin traders.

This doesn't solve the decentralised exchange issue, but does create a decentralised platform for bitcoin trading.

...or am I just providing a solution to a problem that doesn't yet exist?

This space intentionally left blank.
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May 02, 2011, 01:28:14 PM
 #44

It might be workable if Disapora were anywhere near ready for deployment. In my testing last month I found it far too buggy to even consider moving forward with it. And since then I've read much about Diaspora's many security issues, ironic for a system with its design goals. I'll look at it again in a few months, but for now I wouldn't base anything on it.

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May 02, 2011, 01:45:37 PM
 #45

It might be workable if Disapora were anywhere near ready for deployment. In my testing last month I found it far too buggy to even consider moving forward with it. And since then I've read much about Diaspora's many security issues, ironic for a system with its design goals. I'll look at it again in a few months, but for now I wouldn't base anything on it.
I think even as a Facebook-replacement it's not ready for prime-time, but I looked at it a few days ago and what is there isn't too bad. It's missing stuff that I find essential in Facebook, and the security issues you raise would be a real worry. I suspect, though, that like most open-source projects the security side of things will be addressed quite quickly.

I'm not suggesting we move bitcoin-otc wholesale to Diaspora right now, just that it's something worth considering and planning for. I've been thinking a wee bit more about it, and wondering where trades would take place. My thought was that trades could be advertised on Diaspora ("wanting to buy BTC, sell USD 500" or "wanting to buy EUR, sell BTC 1000 @ EUR2.25/BTC") and then negotiating (what happens now on IRC) could take place via PMs. Right now, however, there's no group facility on Diaspora, so everyone would need to friend ("share") with everyone else. That's a deal-breaker for me. I also can't see a way to get the web of trust integrated with Diaspora, but WOT isn't something I'm that familiar with anyway.

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May 02, 2011, 02:01:27 PM
 #46

Seems like we really need a decentralized exchange.

Yes, we do really need that. What's the point of having a p2p currency if we have to rely on centralized server to exchange it with other currencies.

We need a p2p forex market for btc. Who's up for this?
I think to an extent it's our own fault - we treat MtGox as the primary exchange for *all* currencies, though it only handles USD. During the recent rally we were calling GBP parity based on the GBP/USD rate and the MtGox USD rate: we were ignoring the GBP exchanges.

I'm tempted to mention bitcoin-otc, but that, of course is (a) an over-the-counter system, not an exchange, and (b) is also somewhat centralised (one website, one IRC server - correct me if I'm wrong). Could bitcoin-otc, or something similar, function on Diaspora? My thinking is, and I've used Diaspora for all of 30 seconds, is that we sign up to various decentralised Diaspora pods (multiple pods mean that the system can't be taken down simply by taking down one pod/server in one jurisdiction) and then create an "aspect" for trading bitcoins, and friend (I think Diaspora calls it "sharing") other bitcoin traders.

This doesn't solve the decentralised exchange issue, but does create a decentralised platform for bitcoin trading.

...or am I just providing a solution to a problem that doesn't yet exist?

check out Ubitex, Cuddlefish's project
LMGTFY
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May 02, 2011, 02:08:09 PM
 #47

I think to an extent it's our own fault - we treat MtGox as the primary exchange for *all* currencies, though it only handles USD. During the recent rally we were calling GBP parity based on the GBP/USD rate and the MtGox USD rate: we were ignoring the GBP exchanges.

I'm tempted to mention bitcoin-otc, but that, of course is (a) an over-the-counter system, not an exchange, and (b) is also somewhat centralised (one website, one IRC server - correct me if I'm wrong). Could bitcoin-otc, or something similar, function on Diaspora? My thinking is, and I've used Diaspora for all of 30 seconds, is that we sign up to various decentralised Diaspora pods (multiple pods mean that the system can't be taken down simply by taking down one pod/server in one jurisdiction) and then create an "aspect" for trading bitcoins, and friend (I think Diaspora calls it "sharing") other bitcoin traders.

This doesn't solve the decentralised exchange issue, but does create a decentralised platform for bitcoin trading.

...or am I just providing a solution to a problem that doesn't yet exist?

check out Ubitex, Cuddlefish's project
Hmm, interesting. Not quite the same though: there's nothing to suggest it's decentralised at the server level, so in that respect it sounds quite similar to bitcoin-otc except that trades take place locally. At the moment with bitcoin-otc I can trade with anyone who can access a UK bank account.

My concern isn't about availability of OTC trades, it's more about the centralised nature of bitcoin-otc.

Edit: Thread on Ubitex.

This space intentionally left blank.
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May 02, 2011, 03:50:38 PM
 #48

It might be workable if Disapora were anywhere near ready for deployment. In my testing last month I found it far too buggy to even consider moving forward with it. And since then I've read much about Diaspora's many security issues, ironic for a system with its design goals. I'll look at it again in a few months, but for now I wouldn't base anything on it.
I think even as a Facebook-replacement it's not ready for prime-time, but I looked at it a few days ago and what is there isn't too bad. It's missing stuff that I find essential in Facebook, and the security issues you raise would be a real worry. I suspect, though, that like most open-source projects the security side of things will be addressed quite quickly.

I'm not suggesting we move bitcoin-otc wholesale to Diaspora right now, just that it's something worth considering and planning for. I've been thinking a wee bit more about it, and wondering where trades would take place. My thought was that trades could be advertised on Diaspora ("wanting to buy BTC, sell USD 500" or "wanting to buy EUR, sell BTC 1000 @ EUR2.25/BTC") and then negotiating (what happens now on IRC) could take place via PMs. Right now, however, there's no group facility on Diaspora, so everyone would need to friend ("share") with everyone else. That's a deal-breaker for me. I also can't see a way to get the web of trust integrated with Diaspora, but WOT isn't something I'm that familiar with anyway.

At the moment, something like Diaspora is in my medium-range plans, and I've already begun researching alternatives. Some things already exist that might be usable, but as I'm half asleep right now and desperately need to go to bed, it'll have to wait.

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May 02, 2011, 04:43:47 PM
 #49

I think to an extent it's our own fault - we treat MtGox as the primary exchange for *all* currencies, though it only handles USD. During the recent rally we were calling GBP parity based on the GBP/USD rate and the MtGox USD rate: we were ignoring the GBP exchanges.

I'm tempted to mention bitcoin-otc, but that, of course is (a) an over-the-counter system, not an exchange, and (b) is also somewhat centralised (one website, one IRC server - correct me if I'm wrong). Could bitcoin-otc, or something similar, function on Diaspora? My thinking is, and I've used Diaspora for all of 30 seconds, is that we sign up to various decentralised Diaspora pods (multiple pods mean that the system can't be taken down simply by taking down one pod/server in one jurisdiction) and then create an "aspect" for trading bitcoins, and friend (I think Diaspora calls it "sharing") other bitcoin traders.

This doesn't solve the decentralised exchange issue, but does create a decentralised platform for bitcoin trading.

...or am I just providing a solution to a problem that doesn't yet exist?

check out Ubitex, Cuddlefish's project


Hmm, interesting. Not quite the same though: there's nothing to suggest it's decentralised at the server level, so in that respect it sounds quite similar to bitcoin-otc except that trades take place locally. At the moment with bitcoin-otc I can trade with anyone who can access a UK bank account.

My concern isn't about availability of OTC trades, it's more about the centralised nature of bitcoin-otc.

Edit: Thread on Ubitex.

no, they are going to move the exchange to Tor/I2P
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May 02, 2011, 09:32:44 PM
 #50

check out Ubitex, Cuddlefish's project


Hmm, interesting. Not quite the same though: there's nothing to suggest it's decentralised at the server level, so in that respect it sounds quite similar to bitcoin-otc except that trades take place locally. At the moment with bitcoin-otc I can trade with anyone who can access a UK bank account.

My concern isn't about availability of OTC trades, it's more about the centralised nature of bitcoin-otc.

Edit: Thread on Ubitex.

no, they are going to move the exchange to Tor/I2P
Ah, got it - that'll teach me just to read the first post :-) I'll check it out fully tomorrow (obviously should have done today...) but a quick summary or URL to the relevant message would help - is the "same location" thing set in stone, or will trades with remote parties be possible? I quite like remote, bank-to-bank trading. I somehow suspect there are very few bitcoiners in my town, based on the bitcoin map and local attitudes...

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May 02, 2011, 10:46:55 PM
 #51

Is MtGox still under DDOS attack? I am unable to access it.
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May 02, 2011, 10:48:00 PM
 #52

Is MtGox still under DDOS attack? I am unable to access it.

....is this serious?

The website reads: Loadavg too high due to ddos, please retry in ~5 min

What do u think?

If you would like to send me a tip: 1HVGGWGWgHkyh9K8sntkZmXoiopX8Bsvv8

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ALWAYS gpg ident the person you're about to exchange with!
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May 03, 2011, 12:24:14 AM
 #53

IPs blocked so far:
http://paste.pocoo.org/show/381851/

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May 03, 2011, 01:21:38 AM
 #54

Instead of blocking those you find, try a proactive solution.  There are a number of lists here that may help you out.  Known attach ranges, etc.  Look around and use the appropriate lists... it may be of some help.

http://www.iblocklist.com/
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May 03, 2011, 01:27:47 AM
 #55

Is CloudFlare an option for MtGox?
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May 03, 2011, 01:40:04 AM
 #56

Is CloudFlare an option for MtGox?

Wouldn't try anything with the word "cloud" in it

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May 03, 2011, 01:41:45 AM
 #57

Is CloudFlare an option for MtGox?

Wouldn't try anything with the word "cloud" in it
I know what you're saying. The whole cloud thing is a BS sales pitch. I just had to deal with a hosting company that advertised a "never offline" yet a bunch of sites went off line anyway. They claimed their failover failed and blah blah blah.

However, I have been using Cloudflare and haven't had too many problems with them. They block alot of known spam IPs and allow you to block things yourself.

EDIT: Futhermore, they don't get your server IP directly by visiting it. They would be DDoSing Cloudflare's servers. Not yours.
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May 03, 2011, 01:46:11 AM
 #58


You cannot fight a DDOS manually.
I suggest you move your site to a DDOS protected hosting ASAP.
http://www.blockdos.net or similar (not affiliated)

If you don't own the private keys, you don't own the coins.
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May 03, 2011, 01:53:18 AM
 #59


You cannot fight a DDOS manually.
I suggest you move your site to a DDOS protected hosting ASAP.
http://www.blockdos.net or similar (not affiliated)

It's already in progress, server setup is done and testing is in progress

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May 03, 2011, 02:38:10 AM
 #60

Keep up the good work tux, moving to a service that claims to be protected against DDOS. I'd of not expected it either.

Would it not be more wise to transit MTGox across multiple servers and ISPs. Having it running for example on SLICEHOST/Amazon in silent then on times where under DDOS attack or Physical prevention, the exchange can throttle up the "cloud" hosting.

The bitcoin community puts great responsibility on your toes it seems.
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