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Author Topic: Rainbow tables and Bitcoin  (Read 6451 times)
Xenland
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May 01, 2011, 04:11:36 AM
 #1

I dunno how to ask my question so I'll just ask. If i generated a long hash rainbow table over a course of a year, would it be possible to use that 100% completed hash table to compute hash blocks? I hear that computers are still slow at generating random strings like this but who knows in this case.... Maybe its not even possible to complete a rainbow hashtable idk! I hope somebody can enlighten me...
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theymos
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May 01, 2011, 04:56:17 AM
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It's not really possible. A rainbow table capable of covering all block headers would need to be about 1.06x10183 bytes in size.

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Xenland
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May 01, 2011, 06:16:32 AM
 #3

That equation sounds like it would require terabytes of information maybe an understatment cuz my calculator would proccess it.
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May 01, 2011, 06:24:16 AM
 #4

That's 1000 trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion terabytes. And even if you managed to compile all of this data, you'd still need to search it for the solution, which would probably be slower than just hashing. Rainbow tables are only suitable when the thing to be hashed is small, like passwords.

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May 01, 2011, 10:27:10 AM
 #5

Inteligence truely is greater then knowledge. Enough about philosophy, Why cant someone know what the next hash is? I realize there is a nonce along with other misc data, but why do we need to hash blocks? For the sole purpose of using gpu power to reduce how fast the bit coins are generated? Ive read the whole white paper of the detailed describtion of how bit coins work but excuse my confusion im very very curious how this all works.
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May 02, 2011, 03:58:19 AM
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Inteligence truely is greater then knowledge. Enough about philosophy, Why cant someone know what the next hash is? I realize there is a nonce along with other misc data, but why do we need to hash blocks? For the sole purpose of using gpu power to reduce how fast the bit coins are generated? Ive read the whole white paper of the detailed describtion of how bit coins work but excuse my confusion im very very curious how this all works.

The coin creation isn't actually regulated by the hashing, it is fixed: 50 coins per block (later decreasing) and approximately one block every ten minutes. However, rather than just having one party generate the coins (as is the case with all other digital currencies) the creation is distributed. Now the question becomes: In an anonymous network who gets to create how many coins? That's the first thing proof-of-work solves - it provides a basis for allocating new coins fairly.

The second thing proof-of-work does is it allows you to decide disputes - whichever party has done more work is presumed correct.

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May 02, 2011, 08:07:40 AM
 #7

So all miners are technichlly hashing on the next agreement of allocated coins to be generated? Im starting to unserstand this minging thing, becuase if all nodes cant just agree on distributing the full 21 million becuase in the beginning you'd have to distribute it to the first node and that would defeat tge purpose.
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May 02, 2011, 11:01:10 AM
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So all miners are technichlly hashing on the next agreement of allocated coins to be generated?

Yes, mostly. Note that the rate is a little bit flexible: If more miners join or if some miners leave there can be more or less blocks for a time. Also block generation is random of course, so it fluctuates a bit as well. But every 2016 blocks the network looks at the last 2016 blocks and adjusts the difficulty to try and maintain the desired rate of coin creation.

Im starting to unserstand this minging thing, becuase if all nodes cant just agree on distributing the full 21 million becuase in the beginning you'd have to distribute it to the first node and that would defeat tge purpose.

Yep, exactly.

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May 02, 2011, 12:23:59 PM
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So all miners are technichlly hashing on the next agreement of allocated coins to be generated? Im starting to unserstand this minging thing, becuase if all nodes cant just agree on distributing the full 21 million becuase in the beginning you'd have to distribute it to the first node and that would defeat tge purpose.

The primary problem the hashing solves is preventing double-spending of the same coins. Once the hash for the block https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Block of transactions from the last ~10mins is found, it is very difficult to change. After 6 blocks are hashed, it is nigh on impossible to brute force change the transactions that deep in the block chain. Secondarily, in the growth phase of the network it allocates the new coins as an incentive to the miner(s) who are hashing faster and thus providing more security to the network by way of making transactions harder to change. The mature network will be allocating very few new coins but transaction fees maybe an incentive for miners to keep hashing then.

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May 02, 2011, 12:28:25 PM
 #10

It's not really possible. A rainbow table capable of covering all block headers would need to be about 1.06x10183 bytes in size.

What about tables for 256 bit strings so we can hash the headers once, then look up the second hash.  Then we only need 1.45E76 bytes Wink

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May 02, 2011, 09:03:18 PM
 #11

Everyone talks about these transaction fees? how do i set up transaction fees and get payed?
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May 02, 2011, 11:19:26 PM
 #12

Everyone talks about these transaction fees? how do i set up transaction fees and get payed?
they are included (if any) when you solve a block.

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

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Xenland
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May 03, 2011, 03:35:27 AM
 #13

Is there an FAQ on this becuase I don't remember reading how all this worked. Mainly curious how transactions are made with alternate fees going around.
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May 03, 2011, 04:35:32 AM
 #14

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_fees

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