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Author Topic: BitMarket.eu - should we accept USD? (USD added)  (Read 3830 times)
SmokeTooMuch
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May 02, 2011, 10:07:11 PM
 #21

Both options sound fine to me, but I'm not sure whether it makes sense to split it.

Would you need to introduce fees when implementing the second option ?

Also, if all the money is held by an account of your bank we additionally have to trust your bank not to freeze the funds for whatever reason.

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Mahkul
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May 02, 2011, 10:16:49 PM
 #22

Both options sound fine to me, but I'm not sure whether it makes sense to split it.

Would you need to introduce fees when implementing the second option ?

There would be fees for withdrawing EUR from us and a limit of minimum 10€ per withdrawal since the bank I am going to use charges a fee for sending a SEPA transfer (yes, Poland sucks). The reason we want to use this particular bank is that there is an API and the payments could be automated.

I don't think we would be charging anything for transfers within the exchange; even if, I don't see a fee higher than 0.5-1%. For the time being, it will remain free for sure.


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May 02, 2011, 10:17:47 PM
 #23

You should get USD, but keep in mind that mtgox currently has a monopoly on USD exchanges/trades...
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May 02, 2011, 10:23:30 PM
 #24

I'm thinking de-linking the USD part from the other makes sense in that if the USD part gets shutdown you'll still be operational with the Euro side of it. But fragmenting a business at such an early stage is not advisable.

If you can somehow keep them under the same umbrella from the customer point of view (single point of contact on web, same website, address, etc) but have them split legally so that a shutdown of one does not affect trading of the other is the ideal solution.

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May 02, 2011, 10:28:20 PM
 #25

Also, if all the money is held by an account of your bank we additionally have to trust your bank not to freeze the funds for whatever reason.

The funds will be fine. I have some solicitors hired to make sure everything will be a 100% legal so no one is going to freeze anything, that's why the system is not in place yet (didn't want to take any risks). BitMarket is going to become a Limited company with full address and Terms and Conditions on the site.

Bitalo.com coming soon!

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May 02, 2011, 10:31:50 PM
 #26


I thinking de-linking the USD part from the other makes sense in that if the USD part gets shutdown you'll still be operational with the Euro side of it. But fragmenting a business at such an early stage is not advisable.

If you can somehow keep them under the same umbrella from the customer point of view (single point of contact on web, same website, address, etc) but have them split legally so that a shutdown of one does not affect trading of the other is the ideal solution.

Yeah, the USD will only be available for the Paypal option and with that - we will have nothing to do with the money transfers. I don't see how matchmaking buyers and sellers without making any profit is a crime (unless BTC are made illegal in the EU). By the way, does anyone know what has to happen for BTC to be recognized as a currency (because then I don't think we would be allowed to run such a website)?

Bitalo.com coming soon!

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May 02, 2011, 10:38:11 PM
 #27


I thinking de-linking the USD part from the other makes sense in that if the USD part gets shutdown you'll still be operational with the Euro side of it. But fragmenting a business at such an early stage is not advisable.

If you can somehow keep them under the same umbrella from the customer point of view (single point of contact on web, same website, address, etc) but have them split legally so that a shutdown of one does not affect trading of the other is the ideal solution.

Yeah, the USD will only be available for the Paypal option and with that - we will have nothing to do with the money transfers. I don't see how matchmaking buyers and sellers without making any profit is a crime (unless BTC are made illegal in the EU). By the way, does anyone know what has to happen for BTC to be recognized as a currency (because then I don't think we would be allowed to run such a website)?

The bitcoin IS a currency, the only thing needed to make it legally a currency (so that it can be regulated) is some idiot...

Of course, since the bitcoin is decentralized (for the most part), you would still be able to continue the bitcoin side of things because it's tough to track and such...
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May 02, 2011, 10:43:33 PM
 #28


I thinking de-linking the USD part from the other makes sense in that if the USD part gets shutdown you'll still be operational with the Euro side of it. But fragmenting a business at such an early stage is not advisable.

If you can somehow keep them under the same umbrella from the customer point of view (single point of contact on web, same website, address, etc) but have them split legally so that a shutdown of one does not affect trading of the other is the ideal solution.

Yeah, the USD will only be available for the Paypal option and with that - we will have nothing to do with the money transfers. I don't see how matchmaking buyers and sellers without making any profit is a crime (unless BTC are made illegal in the EU). By the way, does anyone know what has to happen for BTC to be recognized as a currency (because then I don't think we would be allowed to run such a website)?

The bitcoin IS a currency, the only thing needed to make it legally a currency (so that it can be regulated) is some idiot...

Of course, since the bitcoin is decentralized (for the most part), you would still be able to continue the bitcoin side of things because it's tough to track and such...

That's what I meant. So you say as long as this idiot doesn't turn up it is not a currency by the same terms as EUR, GBP?

Bitalo.com coming soon!

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May 02, 2011, 11:05:13 PM
 #29

It seems more resilient and decentralised to focus on p2p trades like up to now on bitmarket.

Accepting funds of unknown origin and passing it on to others adds one more bank transfer for a given amount, and that combined with different currencies used makes it a comparable to a currency exchanger IMHO.




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May 03, 2011, 10:54:03 PM
 #30

With the current system that we use it is not possible to receive Bitcoins without paying for them. We hold the BTC in Escrow until the buyer pays - then the seller has an option of releasing the coins from Escrow.

Well, I read about Escrow ... So must not worry about "good" guys cause I'll receive sooner or later (within a week) the money transfer.

Or I'm wrong?

Ok, a little example:

1st step - I sent the IBAN and my name
2nd step - Buyer's bank doesn't validate this information. It asks for BIC of the bank. The validation time is 3 or 4 days, which may trigger the rollback on bitmarket.eu (not sure about the timeout, it may be around 3 days)

It seems the seller cannot be able to complete the transaction or I'm still wrong?

Can someone provide a suggestions about my questions? How the system of this market-site will refund the bitcoins/euros?
BioMike
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May 04, 2011, 05:16:36 AM
 #31

With the current system that we use it is not possible to receive Bitcoins without paying for them. We hold the BTC in Escrow until the buyer pays - then the seller has an option of releasing the coins from Escrow.

Well, I read about Escrow ... So must not worry about "good" guys cause I'll receive sooner or later (within a week) the money transfer.

Or I'm wrong?

Ok, a little example:

1st step - I sent the IBAN and my name
2nd step - Buyer's bank doesn't validate this information. It asks for BIC of the bank. The validation time is 3 or 4 days, which may trigger the rollback on bitmarket.eu (not sure about the timeout, it may be around 3 days)

It seems the seller cannot be able to complete the transaction or I'm still wrong?

Can someone provide a suggestions about my questions? How the system of this market-site will refund the bitcoins/euros?

I've done a few transactions on bitmarket.eu now, most went fine. Just make sure that you get the info you need to do the transfer, the BIC is one of them (I think you can even lookup the BIC from the IBAN code). I just cancelled a transaction because the buyer didn't respond after about 2 weeks. The transaction wasn't rolled back at that time, I mailed the admins to do it for me.
sniper_sniperson
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May 04, 2011, 06:47:51 AM
 #32

Ok, thanks. In fact I was a little shocked when a foreign bank can't do the transfer w/o the BIC number cause IBAN accounts are "childs" of those BICs, like IP ranges.
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May 05, 2011, 09:02:11 PM
 #33

OKay, we have added an option of selecting USD as a currency. Please note that it is not recommended to select this along with International transfer payment method, since the charges could be high.

Still working on implementing the rating system for safe Paypal trading.

Bitalo.com coming soon!

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May 05, 2011, 09:29:51 PM
 #34

Hey, just saw this thread and registered, the site looks really nice Cheesy
Wish you lots of success!

Just a thing, you should put a time scale on the main page graph.

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May 05, 2011, 09:33:15 PM
 #35

Hey, just saw this thread and registered, the site looks really nice Cheesy
Wish you lots of success!

Just a thing, you should put a time scale on the main page graph.

Gods, I haven't seen you in ages! How are you getting on man?

Bitalo.com coming soon!

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May 05, 2011, 09:47:44 PM
 #36

Hey, just saw this thread and registered, the site looks really nice Cheesy
Wish you lots of success!

Just a thing, you should put a time scale on the main page graph.

Gods, I haven't seen you in ages! How are you getting on man?

Doing very well!

I have to say last few IRL months didn't leave me much more internet access (and more generally time) than : "anyone wants to withdraw money? if yes send", "is the bitcoin client dead? if yes restart" and then back to IRL...

I now officially have much more time to take care of the bitcoin central business and compete with your new fancy exchange Cheesy

From what I just read you found a legal way to run the exchange acting as an escrow but not have real time trading the mtgox/bc way ?



Mahkul
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May 05, 2011, 09:50:38 PM
 #37

Hey, just saw this thread and registered, the site looks really nice Cheesy
Wish you lots of success!

Just a thing, you should put a time scale on the main page graph.

Gods, I haven't seen you in ages! How are you getting on man?

Doing very well!

I have to say last few IRL months didn't leave me much more internet access (and more generally time) than : "anyone wants to withdraw money? if yes send", "is the bitcoin client dead? if yes restart" and then back to IRL...

I now officially have much more time to take care of the bitcoin central business and compete with your new fancy exchange Cheesy

From what I just read you found a legal way to run the exchange acting as an escrow but not have real time trading the mtgox/bc way ?

Well, by the end of May we may be switching to the "mtgox way". For now is just BTC Escrow. :/

Did you find any?

Bitalo.com coming soon!

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May 05, 2011, 10:02:36 PM
 #38

Well, by the end of May we may be switching to the "mtgox way". For now is just BTC Escrow. :/
Did you find any?

I have a couple of ideas which basically revolve around "we sell you bitcoin central credits for 1 EUR each, you exchange these credits online, and when you're fed up with them we buy them from you at .98 EUR", the main problems with that is :

 - VAT paid on sales (someone pays 100 EUR + 19.6% French VAT to get 100 EUR worth of credit ? --> Not going to happen)
 - If you sell 10 kEUR worth of credits you know you'll get 200 EUR profit (assuming a 2% withdrawal fee), but in the accounting books it appears as a net profit (unless you use creative accounting techniques) until you buy the credits back from the users --> 33% profit tax, not going to happen either

How are you going to manage the legal side of things, is polish law very different ?

Mahkul
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May 05, 2011, 10:19:52 PM
 #39

Well, by the end of May we may be switching to the "mtgox way". For now is just BTC Escrow. :/
Did you find any?

I have a couple of ideas which basically revolve around "we sell you bitcoin central credits for 1 EUR each, you exchange these credits online, and when you're fed up with them we buy them from you at .98 EUR", the main problems with that is :

 - VAT paid on sales (someone pays 100 EUR + 19.6% French VAT to get 100 EUR worth of credit ? --> Not going to happen)
 - If you sell 10 kEUR worth of credits you know you'll get 200 EUR profit (assuming a 2% withdrawal fee), but in the accounting books it appears as a net profit (unless you use creative accounting techniques) until you buy the credits back from the users --> 33% profit tax, not going to happen either

How are you going to manage the legal side of things, is polish law very different ?

I am going to bed now, but will write you tomorrow. Nice to see you back!

Bitalo.com coming soon!

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