Israel: Operation Protective Edge

[sana8410]

The thing is, Israel attacks terrorist/military targets while Hamas attacks civilian targets. And Israel's military doesn't hide behind civilians when conducting their operations the way Hamas does.

No one is suggesting that Hamas doesn't use weapons that target indiscriminately, or that the Al-Qassam Brigade is a terrorist organization. But Israel absolutely does deliberately target civilian targets such as the bombing of civilian homes and civilian infrastructure. It also routinely violates the laws of war through some of its military tactics such as using cluster munitions in high population areas. Also, when it comes to human shields I'd suggest that you look up the IDF's neighbor policy. It was even ruled illegal by the Israeli high court in 2005 but is still used off and on in the field.

[Rigon]

The thing is, Israel attacks terrorist/military targets while Hamas attacks civilian targets. And Israel's military doesn't hide behind civilians when conducting their operations the way Hamas does.

No one is suggesting that Hamas doesn't use weapons that target indiscriminately, or that the Al-Qassam Brigade is a terrorist organization. But Israel absolutely does deliberately target civilian targets such as the bombing of civilian homes and civilian infrastructure. It also routinely violates the laws of war through some of its military tactics such as using cluster munitions in high population areas. Also, when it comes to human shields I'd suggest that you look up the IDF's neighbor policy. It was even ruled illegal by the Israeli high court in 2005 but is still used off and on in the field.

link for use of cluster bombs in densely populated areas (I know, that's all of gaza basically). just haven't heard this before.

[noviapriani]

I would suggest most people in first world countries have a problem with the concept of collective punishment. I certainly do. Israel has no blame here. They have a right to exist, and be where they are at. The Palestinians choose war over peace.

This.

Gaza had fired over 150+ rockets into Israel for over the course of a month. Israel did something that surprised and disappointed me. They didn't shoot back.

I applaud them for trying to keep peaceful. But I do not like the idea of ignoring a bully. If someone keeps pushing you, you should stand up and push back. Yet Israel sat on their hands.

This conflict should have happen sooner. It could have been avoided, but it wasn't and so it should have happen sooner.

[sana8410]

The thing is, Israel attacks terrorist/military targets while Hamas attacks civilian targets. And Israel's military doesn't hide behind civilians when conducting their operations the way Hamas does.

No one is suggesting that Hamas doesn't use weapons that target indiscriminately, or that the Al-Qassam Brigade is a terrorist organization. But Israel absolutely does deliberately target civilian targets such as the bombing of civilian homes and civilian infrastructure. It also routinely violates the laws of war through some of its military tactics such as using cluster munitions in high population areas. Also, when it comes to human shields I'd suggest that you look up the IDF's neighbor policy. It was even ruled illegal by the Israeli high court in 2005 but is still used off and on in the field.

link for use of cluster bombs in densely populated areas (I know, that's all of gaza basically). just haven't heard this before.

They haven't used them as far as I know during this operation. They carpeted southern Lebanon with them in 2006 though and post-war refused to transfer the locations in which they were dropped to the Lebanese government so that they could be cleaned up. Likewise they were used in Operation Cast Lead in Gaza in 2009. Fletchings were also used which are also area of effect non-discriminatory weapons.

[noviapriani]

Normal wartime strategy and policy does not work and does not apply when your opponent does not care to follow them either.

Hamas maybe the ones holding the guns, but Gaza sat idly by and didn't do a thing to stop it. They were complicit in the attacks.

Finally, if someone invites Hamas into their home and argues that they have women and children, so they cannot or should not be bombed, they have no right to cry when they are.

[sana8410]

Normal wartime strategy and policy does not work and does not apply when your opponent does not care to follow them either.

Hamas maybe the ones holding the guns, but Gaza sat idly by and didn't do a thing to stop it. They were complicit in the attacks.

Finally, if someone invites Hamas into their home and argues that they have women and children, so they cannot or should not be bombed, they have no right to cry when they are.

Israel absolutely strikes back at rocket launch sites and has done so consistently outside of this operation.

[noviapriani]

Normal wartime strategy and policy does not work and does not apply when your opponent does not care to follow them either.

Hamas maybe the ones holding the guns, but Gaza sat idly by and didn't do a thing to stop it. They were complicit in the attacks.

Finally, if someone invites Hamas into their home and argues that they have women and children, so they cannot or should not be bombed, they have no right to cry when they are.

Israel absolutely strikes back at rocket launch sites and has done so consistently outside of this operation.

They took drones and shot down the rockets, yes. They continued to play defense and did not take an offensive approach until recently (before the current conflict).

[sana8410]

Normal wartime strategy and policy does not work and does not apply when your opponent does not care to follow them either.

Hamas maybe the ones holding the guns, but Gaza sat idly by and didn't do a thing to stop it. They were complicit in the attacks.

Finally, if someone invites Hamas into their home and argues that they have women and children, so they cannot or should not be bombed, they have no right to cry when they are.

Israel absolutely strikes back at rocket launch sites and has done so consistently outside of this operation.

They took drones and shot down the rockets, yes. They continued to play defense and did not take an offensive approach until recently (before the current conflict).

Considering how long the conflict has been going on the war crime approach doesn't seem to be working for them either.
That is the same justification that Hamas used for the targeting of Israeli civilians. Congratulations you support terrorism.

[sana8410]

Hamas is more than just an armed brigade it consists of political and civil service wings as well and targeted people specifically for their political affiliation is a war crime as well. Anything associated with Hamas isn't militarily fair game. There is no military benefits to bombing empty homes of civilian infrastructure.

[noviapriani]

Hamas is more than just an armed brigade it consists of political and civil service wings as well and targeted people specifically for their political affiliation is a war crime as well. Anything associated with Hamas isn't militarily fair game. There is no military benefits to bombing empty homes of civilian infrastructure.

It is not the same because Israelis are not welcoming people to use their homes as launch sites or bases of operation.One you do that, your home is not a home it is military complex and should be dealt with as a military target.Israel, the United States, Canada, the European Union, Jordan, Egypt and Japan to name a few all classify Hamas as a terrorist organization. It should be treated as a terrorist organization.

[sana8410]

Hamas is more than just an armed brigade it consists of political and civil service wings as well and targeted people specifically for their political affiliation is a war crime as well. Anything associated with Hamas isn't militarily fair game. There is no military benefits to bombing empty homes of civilian infrastructure.

It is not the same because Israelis are not welcoming people to use their homes as launch sites or bases of operation.One you do that, your home is not a home it is military complex and should be dealt with as a military target.Israel, the United States, Canada, the European Union, Jordan, Egypt and Japan to name a few all classify Hamas as a terrorist organization. It should be treated as a terrorist organization.

Civilians are civilians, just because Israel has compulsory military duty for many of its citizens doesn't open those citizens up to being targeted with violence when they aren't actively serving. That isn't a good excuse for Hamas and it isn't a good excuse for Israel. And yet it is still a recognized war crime to bomb a Hamas soup kitchen .

[noviapriani]

Hamas is more than just an armed brigade it consists of political and civil service wings as well and targeted people specifically for their political affiliation is a war crime as well. Anything associated with Hamas isn't militarily fair game. There is no military benefits to bombing empty homes of civilian infrastructure.

It is not the same because Israelis are not welcoming people to use their homes as launch sites or bases of operation.One you do that, your home is not a home it is military complex and should be dealt with as a military target.Israel, the United States, Canada, the European Union, Jordan, Egypt and Japan to name a few all classify Hamas as a terrorist organization. It should be treated as a terrorist organization.

Civilians are civilians, just because Israel has compulsory military duty for many of its citizens doesn't open those citizens up to being targeted with violence when they aren't actively serving. That isn't a good excuse for Hamas and it isn't a good excuse for Israel. And yet it is still a recognized war crime to bomb a Hamas soup kitchen .

There is a difference between an service member sitting peacefully in his home with his wife and kids, watching the sunday game and having cookouts in the backyard VS someone who has his family sit around kitchen table and help load and plan the next rocket firing.

One is civilian and the other is a military target.

[sana8410]

Hamas is more than just an armed brigade it consists of political and civil service wings as well and targeted people specifically for their political affiliation is a war crime as well. Anything associated with Hamas isn't militarily fair game. There is no military benefits to bombing empty homes of civilian infrastructure.

It is not the same because Israelis are not welcoming people to use their homes as launch sites or bases of operation.One you do that, your home is not a home it is military complex and should be dealt with as a military target.Israel, the United States, Canada, the European Union, Jordan, Egypt and Japan to name a few all classify Hamas as a terrorist organization. It should be treated as a terrorist organization.

Civilians are civilians, just because Israel has compulsory military duty for many of its citizens doesn't open those citizens up to being targeted with violence when they aren't actively serving. That isn't a good excuse for Hamas and it isn't a good excuse for Israel. And yet it is still a recognized war crime to bomb a Hamas soup kitchen .

There is a difference between an service member sitting peacefully in his home with his wife and kids, watching the sunday game and having cookouts in the backyard VS someone who has his family sit around kitchen table and help load and plan the next rocket firing.

One is civilian and the other is a military target.

Let me know when you have evidence that everyone in Gaza is secretly an armed revolutionary that engages in terrorist activities.
Let me know when you have evidence that every home in Gaza is loaded with weapons and bombs.

[noviapriani]

And yet it is still a recognized war crime to bomb a Hamas soup kitchen.

Does not apply if the soup kitchen is filled with bombs and not food (or food with bombs). Still makes it a military target.

[Starscream]

Hamas is more than just an armed brigade it consists of political and civil service wings as well and targeted people specifically for their political affiliation is a war crime as well. Anything associated with Hamas isn't militarily fair game. There is no military benefits to bombing empty homes of civilian infrastructure.

It is not the same because Israelis are not welcoming people to use their homes as launch sites or bases of operation.One you do that, your home is not a home it is military complex and should be dealt with as a military target.Israel, the United States, Canada, the European Union, Jordan, Egypt and Japan to name a few all classify Hamas as a terrorist organization. It should be treated as a terrorist organization.

Civilians are civilians, just because Israel has compulsory military duty for many of its citizens doesn't open those citizens up to being targeted with violence when they aren't actively serving. That isn't a good excuse for Hamas and it isn't a good excuse for Israel. And yet it is still a recognized war crime to bomb a Hamas soup kitchen .

There is a difference between an service member sitting peacefully in his home with his wife and kids, watching the sunday game and having cookouts in the backyard VS someone who has his family sit around kitchen table and help load and plan the next rocket firing.

One is civilian and the other is a military target.

Let me know when you have evidence that everyone in Gaza is secretly an armed revolutionary that engages in terrorist activities.
Let me know when you have evidence that every home in Gaza is loaded with weapons and bombs.

To be fair, you haven't provided any evidence to anything you have claimed either.
And news report aren't evidence, they are one sided propaganda almost all of the times.

And to add to what he said (and somewhat answer you) Israel does not attack whatever target, they target housing, buildings and w/e facilities that their intel marked as a hiding spot for weapons and/or terrorists. Whether or not their intel is accurate is irrelevant, since their intent isn't to harm innocent people (unlike hamas, which actions you seem to be approving of by pushing them to the sidelines).

[koshgel]

I would suggest most people in first world countries have a problem with the concept of collective punishment. I certainly do. Israel has no blame here. They have a right to exist, and be where they are at. The Palestinians choose war over peace.

This.

Gaza had fired over 150+ rockets into Israel for over the course of a month. Israel did something that surprised and disappointed me. They didn't shoot back.

I applaud them for trying to keep peaceful. But I do not like the idea of ignoring a bully. If someone keeps pushing you, you should stand up and push back. Yet Israel sat on their hands.

This conflict should have happen sooner. It could have been avoided, but it wasn't and so it should have happen sooner.

Lol and how many Israelis were killed from all those rockets?

All you have to do is look at the numbers to see how delusional Israeli apologists and zionists are.

246 to 1 in the most recent offensive including a sickening direct attack at children. Disgusting excuses for human beings

[umair127]

Hamas is more than just an armed brigade it consists of political and civil service wings as well and targeted people specifically for their political affiliation is a war crime as well. Anything associated with Hamas isn't militarily fair game. There is no military benefits to bombing empty homes of civilian infrastructure.

It is not the same because Israelis are not welcoming people to use their homes as launch sites or bases of operation.One you do that, your home is not a home it is military complex and should be dealt with as a military target.Israel, the United States, Canada, the European Union, Jordan, Egypt and Japan to name a few all classify Hamas as a terrorist organization. It should be treated as a terrorist organization.

Civilians are civilians, just because Israel has compulsory military duty for many of its citizens doesn't open those citizens up to being targeted with violence when they aren't actively serving. That isn't a good excuse for Hamas and it isn't a good excuse for Israel. And yet it is still a recognized war crime to bomb a Hamas soup kitchen .

There is a difference between an service member sitting peacefully in his home with his wife and kids, watching the sunday game and having cookouts in the backyard VS someone who has his family sit around kitchen table and help load and plan the next rocket firing.

One is civilian and the other is a military target.

Let me know when you have evidence that everyone in Gaza is secretly an armed revolutionary that engages in terrorist activities.
Let me know when you have evidence that every home in Gaza is loaded with weapons and bombs.

Well, that's complicated right? if the accusation is that israel is partaking in war crimes or crimes against humanity then actually the burden of proof goes in the other direction.

In the same way, when israel accuses hamas of a war crime or crime against humanity, they should have evidence, otherwise its just a baseless accusation. ........oh yea i remember them in 2006.

[sana8410]

We have seen such reports (which Israel generally refuses to partake in) such as the Goldstein Report from Operation Cast Lead.

It is also the administration's job to provide supporting evidence that the targets that it is choosing are of military value (when questioned). If they can't do that, then they shouldn't be bombing civilian targets. Yet, Israeli administrations tend not to cooperate with such fact finding missions.

[umair127]

We have seen such reports (which Israel generally refuses to partake in) such as the Goldstein Report from Operation Cast Lead.

It is also the administration's job to provide supporting evidence that the targets that it is choosing are of military value (when questioned). If they can't do that, then they shouldn't be bombing civilian targets. Yet, Israeli administrations tend not to cooperate with such fact finding missions.

probably because nothing happens when they don't. also do you mean goldstone? if not link to info about goldstein report?

[sana8410]

We have seen such reports (which Israel generally refuses to partake in) such as the Goldstein Report from Operation Cast Lead.

It is also the administration's job to provide supporting evidence that the targets that it is choosing are of military value (when questioned). If they can't do that, then they shouldn't be bombing civilian targets. Yet, Israeli administrations tend not to cooperate with such fact finding missions.

probably because nothing happens when they don't. also do you mean goldstone? if not link to info about goldstein report?

Right. They are protected in the Security Council by the U.S. and have support in the EU through Germany. Hahaha. Yes, Goldstone Report, thank you. I'm currently doing some work for a company with Einstein in its title and have been typing it constantly.
Goldstone is a judge from South Africa who was put in charge of the fact finding mission.