Israel: Operation Protective Edge

[Chef Ramsay]

Bloody Sunday

Israeli soldier reportedly captured, 70 Palestinians dead in worst day of conflict

GAZA CITY — Seventy Palestinians were killed Sunday in a heavy bombardment of a Gaza neighborhood and 13 Israeli soldiers were slain in the most intense day of fighting in Israel’s current offensive against Hamas fighters, officials said. The Hamas military also announced that its fighters had captured an Israeli soldier.

Abu Obaida, a spokesman for the Al Qassam Brigades, appeared on Hamas TV to announce the soldier had been taken prisoner. Minutes later, there were fireworks and shouts of “God is great!” from loud speakers.

An Israeli military spokeswoman said the army was investigating the claim.

A kidnapped Israeli soldier would represent a victory for Hamas and a difficult new challenge for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

Footage and more...http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/israel-begins-heaviest-bombardment-yet-in-gaza-sending-residents-fleeing/2014/07/20/578ae882-0fe5-11e4-8c9a-923ecc0c7d23_story.html

[bryant.coleman]

Israel lost some 13 people in total, during the Operation Cast Lead (2008-09), including 10 soldiers. Hamas lost some 1,400+. But I have a feeling that the current conflict is going to be more even-sided. Especially with Israeli hostages in the hands of Hamas.

[sana8410]

I'd also have to disagree a bit on their interpretation of the data. They say in one of their slides that a two state solution is 'suddenly in the minority' but their was no two state solution option given as a possible response to the question, nor was the question about the resolution of conflict between Israel and Palestine.

That's true, but the question about the main goal for five years is pretty telling..
but your point about reactionism and a true lasting trend is well taken. It would be cool if israel somehow pursued this. but it's not reasonable to expect in the near future.

At first glance perhaps, but that is a matter of ideology and doesn't really have much bearing on peace talks and what is going wrong with them (though it could have the potential but there isn't enough info given to connect the two). The trouble is the poll doesn't offer any meaningful connection between that expressed ideology and how it impacts views on peace talks with Israel; the poll also suffers from a lack of definitions.

It would be nice if they had actually asked Palestinians if they would support a two state solution based on 1967 borders.

I think this goes back to the reconciliation issue that Palestinians tend to favor at a little over 60% or even higher given some sort of mutual economic relationship. Overall, yes, we do see the hardline largely youth movement that is very militant and wants to drive Israel into the sea, but the vast majority of Palestinians seem to largely just want to be treated as humans and enjoy basic rights and freedoms that they have been increasingly denied since the late 30's to late 40's.

It's one of the things that especially makes Israeli opinion polls tough to read. Military fervor can swing widely in Israel depending on the current domestic discourse of the day. It can make it difficult to really peg long run trending opinions down.

I think this goes back to the reconciliation issue that Palestinians tend to favor at a little over 60% or even higher given some sort of mutual economic relationship. Overall, yes, we do see the hardline largely youth movement that is very militant and wants to drive Israel into the sea, but the vast majority of Palestinians seem to largely just want to be treated as humans and enjoy basic rights and freedoms that they have been increasingly denied since the late 30's to late 40's.

[umair127]

Israel lost some 13 people in total, during the Operation Cast Lead (2008-09), including 10 soldiers. Hamas lost some 1,400+. But I have a feeling that the current conflict is going to be more even-sided. Especially with Israeli hostages in the hands of Hamas.

Both sides feel angry about how the situation played out, and now with the peace talks ruined, there's nothing left to lose with further violence. In some ways, it's not dissimilar to 2000, just before the Second Intifada, when anger over the perceived failure of the Oslo Accords, and the very real failure of the Camp David Summit earlier that year contributed to the tension before the Intifada.

[noviapriani]

Bloody Sunday

Israeli soldier reportedly captured, 70 Palestinians dead in worst day of conflict

GAZA CITY — Seventy Palestinians were killed Sunday in a heavy bombardment of a Gaza neighborhood and 13 Israeli soldiers were slain in the most intense day of fighting in Israel’s current offensive against Hamas fighters, officials said. The Hamas military also announced that its fighters had captured an Israeli soldier.

Abu Obaida, a spokesman for the Al Qassam Brigades, appeared on Hamas TV to announce the soldier had been taken prisoner. Minutes later, there were fireworks and shouts of “God is great!” from loud speakers.

An Israeli military spokeswoman said the army was investigating the claim.

A kidnapped Israeli soldier would represent a victory for Hamas and a difficult new challenge for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

Footage and more...http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/israel-begins-heaviest-bombardment-yet-in-gaza-sending-residents-fleeing/2014/07/20/578ae882-0fe5-11e4-8c9a-923ecc0c7d23_story.html

Israel either needs to triple it's size, or be driven out into the ocean by the Arabs. This half-way shit aint workin.

[hologram]

Israel lost some 13 people in total, during the Operation Cast Lead (2008-09), including 10 soldiers. Hamas lost some 1,400+. But I have a feeling that the current conflict is going to be more even-sided. Especially with Israeli hostages in the hands of Hamas.

If there is less than 1000 Palestinian killed for one Israeli it's a victory in the view of Hamas, they don't take care of Palestinian life...

[Rigon]

Bloody Sunday

Israeli soldier reportedly captured, 70 Palestinians dead in worst day of conflict

GAZA CITY — Seventy Palestinians were killed Sunday in a heavy bombardment of a Gaza neighborhood and 13 Israeli soldiers were slain in the most intense day of fighting in Israel’s current offensive against Hamas fighters, officials said. The Hamas military also announced that its fighters had captured an Israeli soldier.

Abu Obaida, a spokesman for the Al Qassam Brigades, appeared on Hamas TV to announce the soldier had been taken prisoner. Minutes later, there were fireworks and shouts of “God is great!” from loud speakers.

An Israeli military spokeswoman said the army was investigating the claim.

A kidnapped Israeli soldier would represent a victory for Hamas and a difficult new challenge for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

Footage and more...http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/israel-begins-heaviest-bombardment-yet-in-gaza-sending-residents-fleeing/2014/07/20/578ae882-0fe5-11e4-8c9a-923ecc0c7d23_story.html

Israel either needs to triple it's size, or be driven out into the ocean by the Arabs. This half-way shit aint workin.

Neither of those options would work either. 162 dead so far, of which 137 are civilian, with 209 civilian homes completely destroyed. Over 1000 people injured so far as well.

[hologram]

Neither of those options would work either. 162 dead so far, of which 137 are civilian, with 209 civilian homes completely destroyed. Over 1000 people injured so far as well.

Why don't Hamas agree for a cease fire ? A lot of Palestinian die... Maybe Hamas is happy of it ?

[noviapriani]

Bloody Sunday

Israeli soldier reportedly captured, 70 Palestinians dead in worst day of conflict

GAZA CITY — Seventy Palestinians were killed Sunday in a heavy bombardment of a Gaza neighborhood and 13 Israeli soldiers were slain in the most intense day of fighting in Israel’s current offensive against Hamas fighters, officials said. The Hamas military also announced that its fighters had captured an Israeli soldier.

Abu Obaida, a spokesman for the Al Qassam Brigades, appeared on Hamas TV to announce the soldier had been taken prisoner. Minutes later, there were fireworks and shouts of “God is great!” from loud speakers.

An Israeli military spokeswoman said the army was investigating the claim.

A kidnapped Israeli soldier would represent a victory for Hamas and a difficult new challenge for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

Footage and more...http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/israel-begins-heaviest-bombardment-yet-in-gaza-sending-residents-fleeing/2014/07/20/578ae882-0fe5-11e4-8c9a-923ecc0c7d23_story.html

Israel either needs to triple it's size, or be driven out into the ocean by the Arabs. This half-way shit aint workin.

Neither of those options would work either. 162 dead so far, of which 137 are civilian, with 209 civilian homes completely destroyed. Over 1000 people injured so far as well.

I think the two-state solution is the only one left. ...look back in the history the always fight,they either come to an agreement and become 1 country either they destroy each other ...which is happening now....

[Rigon]

Bloody Sunday

Israeli soldier reportedly captured, 70 Palestinians dead in worst day of conflict

GAZA CITY — Seventy Palestinians were killed Sunday in a heavy bombardment of a Gaza neighborhood and 13 Israeli soldiers were slain in the most intense day of fighting in Israel’s current offensive against Hamas fighters, officials said. The Hamas military also announced that its fighters had captured an Israeli soldier.

Abu Obaida, a spokesman for the Al Qassam Brigades, appeared on Hamas TV to announce the soldier had been taken prisoner. Minutes later, there were fireworks and shouts of “God is great!” from loud speakers.

An Israeli military spokeswoman said the army was investigating the claim.

A kidnapped Israeli soldier would represent a victory for Hamas and a difficult new challenge for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

Footage and more...http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/israel-begins-heaviest-bombardment-yet-in-gaza-sending-residents-fleeing/2014/07/20/578ae882-0fe5-11e4-8c9a-923ecc0c7d23_story.html

Israel either needs to triple it's size, or be driven out into the ocean by the Arabs. This half-way shit aint workin.

Neither of those options would work either. 162 dead so far, of which 137 are civilian, with 209 civilian homes completely destroyed. Over 1000 people injured so far as well.

I think the two-state solution is the only one left. ...look back in the history the always fight,they either come to an agreement and become 1 country either they destroy each other ...which is happening now....

It is unlikely to happen anytime in the near future. Abbas is pretty much the only domestic political power present that wants one.

[hologram]

But how you build the regalian institution ? make a Palestinian state in UN is not enough, the state need to exist on the ground... I'm in favor of the two state solution but we need a way to build institution or it will be anarchy with terrorist group...

[noviapriani]

I understand that it is not realistic currently, but I think Israel should withdraw from the West Bank and the Arab League should put its troops in Gaza and the West Bank to patrol them after Israel leaves the West Bank. What is more likely to happen is UN troops will go into the West Bank the way UN troops patrolled the Israel-Lebanon border after the war of 2006.

[hologram]

I understand that it is not realistic currently, but I think Israel should withdraw from the West Bank and the Arab League should put its troops in Gaza and the West Bank to patrol them after Israel leaves the West Bank. What is more likely to happen is UN troops will go into the West Bank the way UN troops patrolled the Israel-Lebanon border after the war of 2006.

Egypt should take Gaza and Jordan west bank

[Rigon]

I understand that it is not realistic currently, but I think Israel should withdraw from the West Bank and the Arab League should put its troops in Gaza and the West Bank to patrol them after Israel leaves the West Bank. What is more likely to happen is UN troops will go into the West Bank the way UN troops patrolled the Israel-Lebanon border after the war of 2006.

Egypt should take Gaza and Jordan west bank

Any solution I can think of to this conflict, isn't worth Israel taking at the moment. As far as I can tell, why would Israel want to change the status quo when basically all they have to do is deal with a barrage of rocket attacks every year or two, with minimal Israeli casualites? The alternative is an extreme risk to their security (compared to now).

[umair127]

Bunch of muslim apologists in this thread. Hopefully Israel does it right this time and increases that body count exponentially.

[hologram]

Problem is not Israel but the Arab league, if they wanted peace they would not let this anarchy in Gaza and west bank. Who will Arab government demonize for their fail if there is peace with Israel ?

[Rigon]

Bunch of muslim apologists in this thread. Hopefully Israel does it right this time and increases that body count exponentially.

An analysis of legal / illegal in this scenario has nothing to do with religion. Because that has worked so well in the past.Only someone who doesn't care about Israeli security would suggest such a thing.

[sana8410]

I understand that it is not realistic currently, but I think Israel should withdraw from the West Bank and the Arab League should put its troops in Gaza and the West Bank to patrol them after Israel leaves the West Bank. What is more likely to happen is UN troops will go into the West Bank the way UN troops patrolled the Israel-Lebanon border after the war of 2006.

Egypt should take Gaza and Jordan west bank

Any solution I can think of to this conflict, isn't worth Israel taking at the moment. As far as I can tell, why would Israel want to change the status quo when basically all they have to do is deal with a barrage of rocket attacks every year or two, with minimal Israeli casualites? The alternative is an extreme risk to their security (compared to now).

It doesn't really have too much to do with security. If it did, a two state solution would have been hammered out years ago. The only Palestinian winners of the status quo are those who seek to promote further violence against Israel. Other big winners of continued conflict include Salafi jihadist groups and al Qaeda. Also: conflict generally isn't good for security.

[hologram]

It doesn't really have too much to do with security. If it did, a two state solution would have been hammered out years ago. The only Palestinian winners of the status quo are those who seek to promote further violence against Israel. Other big winners of continued conflict include Salafi jihadist groups and al Qaeda. Also: conflict generally isn't good for security.

Problem is the Arab league, they don't want peace so they ask for unfair concession in negotiation then blame Israel...

[noviapriani]

It has more to do with power groupings and how coalitions have to be formed within Israel and the desire to simply occupy the land regardless of the security challenges that doing so creates. All the proof one needs is Israel's continued refusal to halt settlement expansion despite the fact that the Michell Report clearly indicated it as one of the single largest contributing factors to instability that led to the Second Intifada. (that's also why Bush's Road Map for Peace plan had Israel halting settlement expansion as its first phase of a peace process).

"Security" concerns are an obfuscation tactic that has long been used by Israeli administrations to divert attention away from other relevant issues and as an excuse to act militarily during times in which they are losing ground diplomatically.