Israel: Operation Protective Edge

[Alphi]

I think the two-state solution is the only one left. ...look back in the history the always fight,they either come to an agreement and become 1 country either they destroy each other ...which is happening now....

I agree that a two state solution is the only solution... but it wouldn't work unless both sides adopt secularism and religious pluralism.

the reason I say this is because you just cant have two nationalistic and fundamentalist societies living stones throw from each other and not expect them to clash.
each has an ideology that denies the right to existence of the other.

Muslims, Christians and Jews can live together side by side ... but only when they accept that each others beliefs and rights are equally valid..

this works perfectly fine outside of a nationalistic context.... like for example in a country where they are all in the minority.
but in a country where one belief system is the majority and religion is intimately intertwined with politics and nationalism, it simply doesn't work.

sad but true.. but for there to be lasting peace between Palestinians and Israelis there needs to be a strong outside force that governs with impartiality and allows each side to be fairly represented. A completely unbiased force that protects the Israelis and the Palestinians whenever there is a skirmish.

sadly though there is no such force... I doubt the US or UN would even entertain the idea of getting involved at that level.

so in the absence of an outside force. the force must come from within. there must be a strong will from within the communities to both liberalise and reform.

in other words.. the people don't get along... and nobody is going to make them get along... so the only option is to try harder to get along... and reject violence in all its forms.

can you tell the Jews who have been fighting since they first landed in Palestine to stop fighting?... can you tell the Palestinians who have been fighting ever since the Jews showed up to stop fighting?...

WHO KNOWS.

when left to their own devices, they have been at it since David and Goliath a few thousand years ago.
only this time... Isreal is Goliath and Palestine is David.

[Rigon]

Israel needs security guarantees. I would personally like to see Israel get 2 Los Angeles Class submarines, 10 F-22s, and 20 F-35s in exchange for pulling out of the West Bank. Receiving these advanced weapons systems would be contingent on Israel immediately withdrawing all settlers from the West Bank.

[zolace]

Israel needs security guarantees. I would personally like to see Israel get 2 Los Angeles Class submarines, 10 F-22s, and 20 F-35s in exchange for pulling out of the West Bank. Receiving these advanced weapons systems would be contingent on Israel immediately withdrawing all settlers from the West Bank.

Israel largely isn't in the West Bank because of security concerns; thus offering them "security guarantees" wouldn't do much to promote their withdrawal.

[Alphi]

Israel needs security guarantees. I would personally like to see Israel get 2 Los Angeles Class submarines, 10 F-22s, and 20 F-35s in exchange for pulling out of the West Bank. Receiving these advanced weapons systems would be contingent on Israel immediately withdrawing all settlers from the West Bank.

What Isreal and Hamas are doing right now is everything to guarantee insecurity. For the region, and to a lesser extent, the wider world.

I think the only smart ones are the people of the west bank and those in isreal who have tried to stay out of it..
but if this keeps going things will spill over and the entire region will be further destabilized. This will only end up hurting Israel's cause in the long run and may even threaten its existence.

I say this because you cannot use Nuclear weapons to fight extremism and Killing them and their families only creates more extremists. you can keep dropping bombs but unless you are willing to commit genocide, you will run out of bombs before they run out of extremists.

more weapons is not the answer unless you want to give deterrents to all sides.

what Hamas is doing is bankrupting israel both morally and financially. what isreal is doing is creating more extremists.

neither side is right in this conflict.. they are both wrong.. yet looking through the prism of their own ideology, both sides believe they are right.

[Rigon]

Israel needs security guarantees. I would personally like to see Israel get 2 Los Angeles Class submarines, 10 F-22s, and 20 F-35s in exchange for pulling out of the West Bank. Receiving these advanced weapons systems would be contingent on Israel immediately withdrawing all settlers from the West Bank.

Israel largely isn't in the West Bank because of security concerns; thus offering them "security guarantees" wouldn't do much to promote their withdrawal.

Israel would be between 6 to 10 miles wide if it withdrew from the West Bank. But giving them 2 nuclear-powered attack submarines to defend their Mediterranean coast, and F-22 and F-35 fighter jets to defend themselves from attacks coming from Gaza and from Lebanon might make them reconsider having a military presence in the West Bank.

[zolace]

Israel needs security guarantees. I would personally like to see Israel get 2 Los Angeles Class submarines, 10 F-22s, and 20 F-35s in exchange for pulling out of the West Bank. Receiving these advanced weapons systems would be contingent on Israel immediately withdrawing all settlers from the West Bank.

Israel largely isn't in the West Bank because of security concerns; thus offering them "security guarantees" wouldn't do much to promote their withdrawal.

Israel would be between 6 to 10 miles wide if it withdrew from the West Bank. But giving them 2 nuclear-powered attack submarines to defend their Mediterranean coast, and F-22 and F-35 fighter jets to defend themselves from attacks coming from Gaza and from Lebanon might make them reconsider having a military presence in the West Bank.

Israel largely isn't in the West Bank because of security concerns; thus offering them "security guarantees" wouldn't do much to promote their withdrawal.

[Rigon]

Israel needs security guarantees. I would personally like to see Israel get 2 Los Angeles Class submarines, 10 F-22s, and 20 F-35s in exchange for pulling out of the West Bank. Receiving these advanced weapons systems would be contingent on Israel immediately withdrawing all settlers from the West Bank.

Israel largely isn't in the West Bank because of security concerns; thus offering them "security guarantees" wouldn't do much to promote their withdrawal.

Israel would be between 6 to 10 miles wide if it withdrew from the West Bank. But giving them 2 nuclear-powered attack submarines to defend their Mediterranean coast, and F-22 and F-35 fighter jets to defend themselves from attacks coming from Gaza and from Lebanon might make them reconsider having a military presence in the West Bank.

Israel largely isn't in the West Bank because of security concerns; thus offering them "security guarantees" wouldn't do much to promote their withdrawal.

I kind of repeated myself, didn't I? I think it was important enough to repeat.

But what do you personally think of my plan? I think it is time to give Israel true security guarantees in exchange for territorial concessions.

[sana8410]

Israel needs security guarantees. I would personally like to see Israel get 2 Los Angeles Class submarines, 10 F-22s, and 20 F-35s in exchange for pulling out of the West Bank. Receiving these advanced weapons systems would be contingent on Israel immediately withdrawing all settlers from the West Bank.

Israel largely isn't in the West Bank because of security concerns; thus offering them "security guarantees" wouldn't do much to promote their withdrawal.

Israel would be between 6 to 10 miles wide if it withdrew from the West Bank. But giving them 2 nuclear-powered attack submarines to defend their Mediterranean coast, and F-22 and F-35 fighter jets to defend themselves from attacks coming from Gaza and from Lebanon might make them reconsider having a military presence in the West Bank.

Israel largely isn't in the West Bank because of security concerns; thus offering them "security guarantees" wouldn't do much to promote their withdrawal.

I kind of repeated myself, didn't I? I think it was important enough to repeat.

But what do you personally think of my plan? I think it is time to give Israel true security guarantees in exchange for territorial concessions.

Why? So they can then use those weapons to retake the territory as soon as one extremist lobs a few missiles at them? I can understand Israel wanting to defend itself, but throwing more American money at them when they've proven any pull-outs they agree to are always temporary, and dropped at the first sign of any violence from Palestinians, is not the way to go about this. Both parties need to be brought to the table to find a real resolution. I don't know what that resolution is, but throwing more American money away with armaments to Israel in exchange for temporary territorial concessions isn't it.

[Rigon]

Israel needs security guarantees. I would personally like to see Israel get 2 Los Angeles Class submarines, 10 F-22s, and 20 F-35s in exchange for pulling out of the West Bank. Receiving these advanced weapons systems would be contingent on Israel immediately withdrawing all settlers from the West Bank.

Israel largely isn't in the West Bank because of security concerns; thus offering them "security guarantees" wouldn't do much to promote their withdrawal.

Israel would be between 6 to 10 miles wide if it withdrew from the West Bank. But giving them 2 nuclear-powered attack submarines to defend their Mediterranean coast, and F-22 and F-35 fighter jets to defend themselves from attacks coming from Gaza and from Lebanon might make them reconsider having a military presence in the West Bank.

Israel largely isn't in the West Bank because of security concerns; thus offering them "security guarantees" wouldn't do much to promote their withdrawal.

I kind of repeated myself, didn't I? I think it was important enough to repeat.

But what do you personally think of my plan? I think it is time to give Israel true security guarantees in exchange for territorial concessions.

Why? So they can then use those weapons to retake the territory as soon as one extremist lobs a few missiles at them? I can understand Israel wanting to defend itself, but throwing more American money at them when they've proven any pull-outs they agree to are always temporary, and dropped at the first sign of any violence from Palestinians, is not the way to go about this. Both parties need to be brought to the table to find a real resolution. I don't know what that resolution is, but throwing more American money away with armaments to Israel in exchange for temporary territorial concessions isn't it.

Israel doesn't retake territory. Israel gave up the entire Sinai Peninsula and Gaza already. It hasn't retaken any territory. Israel is the only country told to give back territory it won in defensive wars.

[zolace]

Israel needs security guarantees. I would personally like to see Israel get 2 Los Angeles Class submarines, 10 F-22s, and 20 F-35s in exchange for pulling out of the West Bank. Receiving these advanced weapons systems would be contingent on Israel immediately withdrawing all settlers from the West Bank.

Israel largely isn't in the West Bank because of security concerns; thus offering them "security guarantees" wouldn't do much to promote their withdrawal.

Israel would be between 6 to 10 miles wide if it withdrew from the West Bank. But giving them 2 nuclear-powered attack submarines to defend their Mediterranean coast, and F-22 and F-35 fighter jets to defend themselves from attacks coming from Gaza and from Lebanon might make them reconsider having a military presence in the West Bank.

Israel largely isn't in the West Bank because of security concerns; thus offering them "security guarantees" wouldn't do much to promote their withdrawal.

I kind of repeated myself, didn't I? I think it was important enough to repeat.

But what do you personally think of my plan? I think it is time to give Israel true security guarantees in exchange for territorial concessions.

I don't think the current Israeli administration is interested in territorial concessions no matter what sort of security you offer them.

[hologram]

Israel doesn't retake territory. Israel gave up the entire Sinai Peninsula and Gaza already. It hasn't retaken any territory. Israel is the only country told to give back territory it won in defensive wars.

this.

[umair127]

Israel needs security guarantees. I would personally like to see Israel get 2 Los Angeles Class submarines, 10 F-22s, and 20 F-35s in exchange for pulling out of the West Bank. Receiving these advanced weapons systems would be contingent on Israel immediately withdrawing all settlers from the West Bank.

Israel largely isn't in the West Bank because of security concerns; thus offering them "security guarantees" wouldn't do much to promote their withdrawal.

Israel would be between 6 to 10 miles wide if it withdrew from the West Bank. But giving them 2 nuclear-powered attack submarines to defend their Mediterranean coast, and F-22 and F-35 fighter jets to defend themselves from attacks coming from Gaza and from Lebanon might make them reconsider having a military presence in the West Bank.

Israel largely isn't in the West Bank because of security concerns; thus offering them "security guarantees" wouldn't do much to promote their withdrawal.

I kind of repeated myself, didn't I? I think it was important enough to repeat.

But what do you personally think of my plan? I think it is time to give Israel true security guarantees in exchange for territorial concessions.

Why? So they can then use those weapons to retake the territory as soon as one extremist lobs a few missiles at them? I can understand Israel wanting to defend itself, but throwing more American money at them when they've proven any pull-outs they agree to are always temporary, and dropped at the first sign of any violence from Palestinians, is not the way to go about this. Both parties need to be brought to the table to find a real resolution. I don't know what that resolution is, but throwing more American money away with armaments to Israel in exchange for temporary territorial concessions isn't it.

Israel doesn't retake territory. Israel gave up the entire Sinai Peninsula and Gaza already. It hasn't retaken any territory. Israel is the only country told to give back territory it won in defensive wars.

you're ignoring the Jewish settlers that move into large areas of supposedly Palestinian lands. you're ignoring the IDF literally bombing the shit out of the areas they don't reclaim via "settlers." and i'd bet the only reason they haven't attempted to retake the Sinai is because Egypt would have a lot more to say about it now than they did then.

[sana8410]

Israel needs security guarantees. I would personally like to see Israel get 2 Los Angeles Class submarines, 10 F-22s, and 20 F-35s in exchange for pulling out of the West Bank. Receiving these advanced weapons systems would be contingent on Israel immediately withdrawing all settlers from the West Bank.

Israel largely isn't in the West Bank because of security concerns; thus offering them "security guarantees" wouldn't do much to promote their withdrawal.

Israel would be between 6 to 10 miles wide if it withdrew from the West Bank. But giving them 2 nuclear-powered attack submarines to defend their Mediterranean coast, and F-22 and F-35 fighter jets to defend themselves from attacks coming from Gaza and from Lebanon might make them reconsider having a military presence in the West Bank.

Israel largely isn't in the West Bank because of security concerns; thus offering them "security guarantees" wouldn't do much to promote their withdrawal.

I kind of repeated myself, didn't I? I think it was important enough to repeat.

But what do you personally think of my plan? I think it is time to give Israel true security guarantees in exchange for territorial concessions.

Why? So they can then use those weapons to retake the territory as soon as one extremist lobs a few missiles at them? I can understand Israel wanting to defend itself, but throwing more American money at them when they've proven any pull-outs they agree to are always temporary, and dropped at the first sign of any violence from Palestinians, is not the way to go about this. Both parties need to be brought to the table to find a real resolution. I don't know what that resolution is, but throwing more American money away with armaments to Israel in exchange for temporary territorial concessions isn't it.

Israel doesn't retake territory. Israel gave up the entire Sinai Peninsula and Gaza already. It hasn't retaken any territory. Israel is the only country told to give back territory it won in defensive wars.

1.) No it isn't.

2.) Israel launched the first strike in the 6 Day War

3.) It hasn't given up Gaza. It merely removed its settlements there in order to stall the peace process.

[Rigon]

Israel needs security guarantees. I would personally like to see Israel get 2 Los Angeles Class submarines, 10 F-22s, and 20 F-35s in exchange for pulling out of the West Bank. Receiving these advanced weapons systems would be contingent on Israel immediately withdrawing all settlers from the West Bank.

Israel largely isn't in the West Bank because of security concerns; thus offering them "security guarantees" wouldn't do much to promote their withdrawal.

Israel would be between 6 to 10 miles wide if it withdrew from the West Bank. But giving them 2 nuclear-powered attack submarines to defend their Mediterranean coast, and F-22 and F-35 fighter jets to defend themselves from attacks coming from Gaza and from Lebanon might make them reconsider having a military presence in the West Bank.

Israel largely isn't in the West Bank because of security concerns; thus offering them "security guarantees" wouldn't do much to promote their withdrawal.

I kind of repeated myself, didn't I? I think it was important enough to repeat.

But what do you personally think of my plan? I think it is time to give Israel true security guarantees in exchange for territorial concessions.

Why? So they can then use those weapons to retake the territory as soon as one extremist lobs a few missiles at them? I can understand Israel wanting to defend itself, but throwing more American money at them when they've proven any pull-outs they agree to are always temporary, and dropped at the first sign of any violence from Palestinians, is not the way to go about this. Both parties need to be brought to the table to find a real resolution. I don't know what that resolution is, but throwing more American money away with armaments to Israel in exchange for temporary territorial concessions isn't it.

Israel doesn't retake territory. Israel gave up the entire Sinai Peninsula and Gaza already. It hasn't retaken any territory. Israel is the only country told to give back territory it won in defensive wars.

you're ignoring the Jewish settlers that move into large areas of supposedly Palestinian lands. you're ignoring the IDF literally bombing the shit out of the areas they don't reclaim via "settlers." and i'd bet the only reason they haven't attempted to retake the Sinai is because Egypt would have a lot more to say about it now than they did then.

What would your reaction be if rockets were landing in your hometown and they were being fired from Mexico? Would you be urging the U.S. Government to show restraint? It's a lot easier to judge the Israelis as we are not in their situation.

[Rigon]

Israel needs security guarantees. I would personally like to see Israel get 2 Los Angeles Class submarines, 10 F-22s, and 20 F-35s in exchange for pulling out of the West Bank. Receiving these advanced weapons systems would be contingent on Israel immediately withdrawing all settlers from the West Bank.

Israel largely isn't in the West Bank because of security concerns; thus offering them "security guarantees" wouldn't do much to promote their withdrawal.

Israel would be between 6 to 10 miles wide if it withdrew from the West Bank. But giving them 2 nuclear-powered attack submarines to defend their Mediterranean coast, and F-22 and F-35 fighter jets to defend themselves from attacks coming from Gaza and from Lebanon might make them reconsider having a military presence in the West Bank.

Israel largely isn't in the West Bank because of security concerns; thus offering them "security guarantees" wouldn't do much to promote their withdrawal.

I kind of repeated myself, didn't I? I think it was important enough to repeat.

But what do you personally think of my plan? I think it is time to give Israel true security guarantees in exchange for territorial concessions.

Why? So they can then use those weapons to retake the territory as soon as one extremist lobs a few missiles at them? I can understand Israel wanting to defend itself, but throwing more American money at them when they've proven any pull-outs they agree to are always temporary, and dropped at the first sign of any violence from Palestinians, is not the way to go about this. Both parties need to be brought to the table to find a real resolution. I don't know what that resolution is, but throwing more American money away with armaments to Israel in exchange for temporary territorial concessions isn't it.

Israel doesn't retake territory. Israel gave up the entire Sinai Peninsula and Gaza already. It hasn't retaken any territory. Israel is the only country told to give back territory it won in defensive wars.

1.) No it isn't.

2.) Israel launched the first strike in the 6 Day War

3.) It hasn't given up Gaza. It merely removed its settlements there in order to stall the peace process.

Israel attacked during the 6 Day War because enemy forces were massed on their borders. Why would Israel engage in territorial concessions in order to stall the peace process?

[sana8410]

Israel engaged in declarations of war against Egypt (Lavon Affair), Syria (bombing of the headwater damn) and Jordan (Operation Shredder) all prior to the official first strikes of the 6 Day War. Calling the 6 Day War a defensive war for Israel would be like calling the US invasion of Iraq a defensive war for the US.

[Tusk]

Perhaps you need to ask yourself why it is that Palestinians are firing rockets, Israel conveniently dodges the problems and compounds them.  

[Rigon]

Israel engaged in declarations of war against Egypt (Lavon Affair), Syria (bombing of the headwater damn) and Jordan (Operation Shredder) all prior to the official first strikes of the 6 Day War. Calling the 6 Day War a defensive war for Israel would be like calling the US invasion of Iraq a defensive war for the US.

While I am sorry for what happened during the Lavon Affair and the U.S.S. Liberty Incident (my heart goes out to all the sailors killed and wounded), just as my heart goes out to victims of LSD experiments and syphilis experiments, I feel that Israel is doing things in good faith. They do not want to be stuck in an intractable conflict. That is why I am proposing solutions rather than sitting on the sidelines and saying nothing is going to happen and saying that they should just keep fighting. I want both sides to reconcile their differences rather than continue to be in a perpetual state of war.

[sana8410]

Israel engaged in declarations of war against Egypt (Lavon Affair), Syria (bombing of the headwater damn) and Jordan (Operation Shredder) all prior to the official first strikes of the 6 Day War. Calling the 6 Day War a defensive war for Israel would be like calling the US invasion of Iraq a defensive war for the US.

While I am sorry for what happened during the Lavon Affair and the U.S.S. Liberty Incident (my heart goes out to all the sailors killed and wounded), just as my heart goes out to victims of LSD experiments and syphilis experiments, I feel that Israel is doing things in good faith. They do not want to be stuck in an intractable conflict. That is why I am proposing solutions rather than sitting on the sidelines and saying nothing is going to happen and saying that they should just keep fighting. I want both sides to reconcile their differences rather than continue to be in a perpetual state of war.

Because a peace process threatened their much more highly valued territorial holdings in the West Bank and Eastern Jerusalem. Has always been a poor comparison because we aren't doing to Mexico what Israel has been doing to Gaza.

[hologram]

USA take Texas from Mexico and Mexico don't do a 100 years war...