Israel: Operation Protective Edge

[kuroman]

Here's my peace process plan:

Point 1: Israel withdraws from the West Bank. In exchange, Israel gets 2 Los Angeles Class submarines, 10 F-22s, and 20 F-35s. Afterwards, it annexes all of East Jersualem and gives Arabs living their equal rights as Israeli citiizens. It then annexes the Golan Heights and gives everyone there equal rights as Israeli citizens.

Point 2: Mahmoud Abbas cuts ties with Hamas in exchange for an Israeli guarantee to never expand territory, even after winning any future defensive wars.

Point 3: Israel agrees to never expand territory as long as the Golan Heights, pre-1967 Israel, and a united Jerusalem (East and West) are recognized as Israeli and Ramallah becomes the Palestinian capitol.

Point 4: Israel makes peace with the Palestinians and with all of its neighbors and they work together financially and politically.

Why should Israel annexes Jerusalem why not give Jerusalem to the Palestinians ? and why should Israel be armed even further ?

Hamas finds it reason in existence, in the colonization of Palestine by Israel, if Israel, goes to pre-1967 there won't any war, especially is Palestinians are allowed to have their own country with real institution with police and army that could enforce order.

[Tusk]

When do the millions of Palestinians currently living in exile get to come home and get their land back?

[u9y42]

Why should Israel annexes Jerusalem why not give Jerusalem to the Palestinians ? and why should Israel be armed even further ?

Hamas finds it reason in existence, in the colonization of Palestine by Israel, if Israel, goes to pre-1967 there won't any war, especially is Palestinians are allowed to have their own country with real institution with police and army that could enforce order.

I don't think land is the main issue here, though it's often stated by extremists as such. As far as I can tell, Palestinians want their human rights to be respected - whether that is under a Palestinian state, Israel, or whatever, is a secondary consideration to the population. The problem is, Israel isn't interested in a one state solution, since that would be a "demographic" problem... so much for democracy.

[kuroman]

Why should Israel annexes Jerusalem why not give Jerusalem to the Palestinians ? and why should Israel be armed even further ?

Hamas finds it reason in existence, in the colonization of Palestine by Israel, if Israel, goes to pre-1967 there won't any war, especially is Palestinians are allowed to have their own country with real institution with police and army that could enforce order.

I don't think land is the main issue here, though it's often stated by extremists as such. As far as I can tell, Palestinians want their human rights to be respected - whether that is under a Palestinian state, Israel, or whatever, is a secondary consideration to the population. The problem is, Israel isn't interested in a one state solution, since that would be a "demographic" problem... so much for democracy.

Notice, if you did miss the point, that I didn't mention land only (land is also part of the problem) but the right of existence of the state of Palestine is of most important and which is a total different story

[Tusk]

Why should Israel annexes Jerusalem why not give Jerusalem to the Palestinians ? and why should Israel be armed even further ?

Hamas finds it reason in existence, in the colonization of Palestine by Israel, if Israel, goes to pre-1967 there won't any war, especially is Palestinians are allowed to have their own country with real institution with police and army that could enforce order.

I don't think land is the main issue here, though it's often stated by extremists as such. As far as I can tell, Palestinians want their human rights to be respected - whether that is under a Palestinian state, Israel, or whatever, is a secondary consideration to the population. The problem is, Israel isn't interested in a one state solution, since that would be a "demographic" problem... so much for democracy.

I disagree land is central to the issue its the whole reason this mess started if Palestine was left to its people there would be no war

[IacceptBTC]

Here's my peace process plan:

Point 1: Israel withdraws from the West Bank. In exchange, Israel gets 2 Los Angeles Class submarines, 10 F-22s, and 20 F-35s. Afterwards, it annexes all of East Jersualem and gives Arabs living their equal rights as Israeli citiizens. It then annexes the Golan Heights and gives everyone there equal rights as Israeli citizens.

Point 2: Mahmoud Abbas cuts ties with Hamas in exchange for an Israeli guarantee to never expand territory, even after winning any future defensive wars.

Point 3: Israel agrees to never expand territory as long as the Golan Heights, pre-1967 Israel, and a united Jerusalem (East and West) are recognized as Israeli and Ramallah becomes the Palestinian capitol.

Point 4: Israel makes peace with the Palestinians and with all of its neighbors and they work together financially and politically.

Why should Israel annexes Jerusalem why not give Jerusalem to the Palestinians ? and why should Israel be armed even further ?

Hamas finds it reason in existence, in the colonization of Palestine by Israel, if Israel, goes to pre-1967 there won't any war, especially is Palestinians are allowed to have their own country with real institution with police and army that could enforce order.

Hammas only point to exist is to try to get Israel out of their holy land and to promote their religion.

[Tusk]

Here's my peace process plan:

Point 1: Israel withdraws from the West Bank. In exchange, Israel gets 2 Los Angeles Class submarines, 10 F-22s, and 20 F-35s. Afterwards, it annexes all of East Jersualem and gives Arabs living their equal rights as Israeli citiizens. It then annexes the Golan Heights and gives everyone there equal rights as Israeli citizens.

Point 2: Mahmoud Abbas cuts ties with Hamas in exchange for an Israeli guarantee to never expand territory, even after winning any future defensive wars.

Point 3: Israel agrees to never expand territory as long as the Golan Heights, pre-1967 Israel, and a united Jerusalem (East and West) are recognized as Israeli and Ramallah becomes the Palestinian capitol.

Point 4: Israel makes peace with the Palestinians and with all of its neighbors and they work together financially and politically.

Why should Israel annexes Jerusalem why not give Jerusalem to the Palestinians ? and why should Israel be armed even further ?

Hamas finds it reason in existence, in the colonization of Palestine by Israel, if Israel, goes to pre-1967 there won't any war, especially is Palestinians are allowed to have their own country with real institution with police and army that could enforce order.

Hammas only point to exist is to try to get Israel out of their holy land and to promote their religion.

There is the attempted deception, this has nothing to do with religion, that is merely the pathetic shield that true evil hides. This is about real living, breathing, bleeding, grieving, human beings caught up in state genocide.

[u9y42]

Why should Israel annexes Jerusalem why not give Jerusalem to the Palestinians ? and why should Israel be armed even further ?

Hamas finds it reason in existence, in the colonization of Palestine by Israel, if Israel, goes to pre-1967 there won't any war, especially is Palestinians are allowed to have their own country with real institution with police and army that could enforce order.

I don't think land is the main issue here, though it's often stated by extremists as such. As far as I can tell, Palestinians want their human rights to be respected - whether that is under a Palestinian state, Israel, or whatever, is a secondary consideration to the population. The problem is, Israel isn't interested in a one state solution, since that would be a "demographic" problem... so much for democracy.

I disagree land is central to the issue its the whole reason this mess started if Palestine was left to its people there would be no war

Well, I'm not Palestinian, or personally know any for that matter, so take it as you will - but let me try to clarify what I was trying to say. Of course, people don't want to be kicked out of the land they live in, and they want to have a government that actually represents them and respects their rights; but whether the country they are part of is called Palestine, Israel, or whatever, doesn't seem to be the biggest issue in most Palestinians' minds, for all I've read and seen about it.

For example, in the following interview Shir Hever expresses this same idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWYeWeoQ-uQ (at about the 7 minute mark, though I definitely recommend the full interview).

[Dylith]

I didn't realize that my threads were so popular.

[u9y42]

I didn't realize that my threads were so popular.

Hmm, are you PeanutCoins' alt account by any chance?

But yes, given the needless loss of life that has been going on, it seems only natural that it will strike a chord with most people.

[Dylith]

Hmm, are you PeanutCoins' alt account by any chance?

Apparently so, as well as an AE of most of the other posters in this thread.

[u9y42]

Hmm, are you PeanutCoins' alt account by any chance?

Apparently so, as well as an AE of most of the other posters in this thread.

I wouldn't find that surprising; I've seen users carrying out conversations between several of his/her forum accounts before, more often than not to boost post count, no doubt - and also a few cases of users making a mistake by posting with the wrong account, then deleting it, and posting the exact same thing with another account. People these days...

Anyway, it sort of helps, knowing that many of the misconceptions and nonsense that you read here, time and time again, are probably coming from only a handful of different people.

[Dylith]

I wouldn't find that surprising; I've seen users carrying out conversations between several of his/her forum accounts before, more often than not to boost post count, no doubt - and also a few cases of users making a mistake by posting with the wrong account, then deleting it, and posting the exact same thing with another account. People these days...

Anyway, it sort of helps, knowing that many of the misconceptions and nonsense that you read here, time and time again, are probably coming from only a handful of different people.

It's not simply that. It seems like a number of posters here are bots that take content from other forum boards and copy and paste it here in order to boost site traffic. this thread and most of the posts here were poached from another forum.

[michaelwang33]

Here's my peace process plan:

Point 1: Israel withdraws from the West Bank. In exchange, Israel gets 2 Los Angeles Class submarines, 10 F-22s, and 20 F-35s. Afterwards, it annexes all of East Jersualem and gives Arabs living their equal rights as Israeli citiizens. It then annexes the Golan Heights and gives everyone there equal rights as Israeli citizens.

Point 2: Mahmoud Abbas cuts ties with Hamas in exchange for an Israeli guarantee to never expand territory, even after winning any future defensive wars.

Point 3: Israel agrees to never expand territory as long as the Golan Heights, pre-1967 Israel, and a united Jerusalem (East and West) are recognized as Israeli and Ramallah becomes the Palestinian capitol.

Point 4: Israel makes peace with the Palestinians and with all of its neighbors and they work together financially and politically.

Why should Israel annexes Jerusalem why not give Jerusalem to the Palestinians ? and why should Israel be armed even further ?

Hamas finds it reason in existence, in the colonization of Palestine by Israel, if Israel, goes to pre-1967 there won't any war, especially is Palestinians are allowed to have their own country with real institution with police and army that could enforce order.

Hammas only point to exist is to try to get Israel out of their holy land and to promote their religion.

There is the attempted deception, this has nothing to do with religion, that is merely the pathetic shield that true evil hides. This is about real living, breathing, bleeding, grieving, human beings caught up in state genocide.

Who are you referring to that is doing this? Hammas is using palistine citizens as human shields and the Jews have been attempted to have been wiped out of the planet via the nazis in WW2.

[Alphi]

Hammas only point to exist is to try to get Israel out of their holy land and to promote their religion.

this is the point of Isreal too or did you not know that?

Isreals only point to exist is to try to get Non Jews out of their holy land and to promote their religion.

[Alphi]

Who are you referring to that is doing this? Hammas is using palistine citizens as human shields and the Jews have been attempted to have been wiped out of the planet via the nazis in WW2.

the propaganda sword cuts both ways...

If you make the claim that almost every Palestinian house has a rocket under it.. so it is justified to blow up the house.
the same claim can be made about Israel... because of conscription which forces every Isreali citizen (men and women) to join the army at the age of 18 this means that almost every house in Isreal has at least one trained soldier in it.

when Hamas puts rockets in peoples houses what do they expect?
when Isreal turns almost every single citizen into a soldier (women and men) at the age of 18 what do they expect?

regardless off the propaganda.. none of it justifies the killing of innocent civilians.

the fact that Jews were persecuted 80 years ago does not in any way justify what their grandchildren are doing today.
the fact that many many Jews around the world do not even support Israels aggression makes it even less justifiable.

What Isreal does is plain WRONG. it is immoral, illegal and unjust.
What Hamas does when it fires rockets and blows up buses etc indiscriminately is also WRONG. it is immoral, illegal and unjust.

you cannot use a wrong action to justify another wrong action. it is completely absurd.

If I steal your car does that give you the right to take my house?
If the guy from two blocks away killed your grandma 80 years ago does it give you the right to turn on your neighbor and take his land even when he wasn't involved?

cmon how about some common sense.

could you imagine if countries like China, Japan and South Korea were as immature and childish as the Zionists and Islamists?
could you imagine if countries like France, England and Germany were as immature and childish as the Zionists and  Islamists?

if everyone in the world acted like Isreal and Hamas then we would be in WW3 right now i can guarantee you.

[hologram]

"The IDF is fighting this battle with one hand behind their backs and several fingers tied on the other.  Political correctness does nothing but prolong conflicts and inflict increased casualties on both sides.  Instead of a quick, sharp battle we're seeing a protracted one, not because of military necessity but because of political expediency/correctness/false morality."

http://snafu-solomon.blogspot.fr/search?updated-max=2014-07-25T00:00:00-05:00&max-results=7

[DodoB]

 if Israel, goes to pre-1967 there won't any war

Wrong. Hamas wants to liberate ALL of the holy land from zionist control,including the pre 1967 borders,Hamas and many other pro Palestinians consider all of Israel an occupied territory.
Besides,the Palestinians were given a chance to live peacefully in the 2 state solution in 1947,they refused and declared war instead.

Hammas only point to exist is to try to get Israel out of their holy land and to promote their religion.

this is the point of Isreal too or did you not know that?

Isreals only point to exist is to try to get Non Jews out of their holy land and to promote their religion.

Israel's point of existence is actually to provide a safe place for Jews after the Holocaust.

[Alphi]

Israel's point of existence is actually to provide a safe place for Jews after the Holocaust.

Zionism started as a movement more than 50 years before the holocaust.
the Name Isreal (the name of a kingdom which had been dead for 3000 years) was chosen by the Zionists to give their movement some kind of legitimacy.

the Zionist movement and the National Socialist movement (Nazism) actually have a shared history and go hand in hand.
they are in a sense reactions to each other. Nazism was a reaction to the power of the Banks/Merchants/Jews and Zionism was a reaction the the discrimination that the Jews faced in Germany.

just like Hamas and Right Wing Zionism (ie the settler movement) are reactions to each other today..

without the one you simply can't have the other.

the point of Isreal is to further the cause of Zionism.. it goes much further than simply providing a safe place for Jews.
Providing a safe place for Jews does not necessitate the invasion of other countries, the military occupation and outright theft of Palestinian land for more than 50 years.. the summary execution of protesters, the countless jailing of political prisoners and the human rights and International law violations.

In fact the UK and the US, Canada, Australia, NZ etc are far more safer places for orthodox Jews than Isreal. Orthodox Jews do not get beaten for protesting in those countries.. Nor do they get forced to join the army in those countries but they do in Isreal..

this is news from the Isreali Press just a few days old... maybe you should read it and you might learn something about Isreal.

http://www.jpost.com/National-News/Report-Three-Palestinians-killed-in-West-Bank-violence-368926

do police and civilians that steal land (aka settlers) shoot protesters in your country? I feel really sorry for you if they do.

[DodoB]

Israel's point of existence is actually to provide a safe place for Jews after the Holocaust.

Zionism started as a movement more than 50 years before the holocaust.
the Name Isreal (the name of a kingdom which had been dead for 3000 years) was chosen by the Zionists to give their movement some kind of legitimacy.

the Zionist movement and the National Socialist movement (Nazism) actually have a shared history and go hand in hand.
they are in a sense reactions to each other. Nazism was a reaction to the power of the Banks/Merchants/Jews and Zionism was a reaction the the discrimination that the Jews faced in Germany.

just like Hamas and Right Wing Zionism (ie the settler movement) are reactions to each other today..

without the one you simply can't have the other.

the point of Isreal is to further the cause of Zionism.. it goes much further than simply providing a safe place for Jews.
Providing a safe place for Jews does not necessitate the invasion of other countries, the military occupation and outright theft of Palestinian land for more than 50 years.. the summary execution of protesters, the countless jailing of political prisoners and the human rights and International law violations.

In fact the UK and the US, Canada, Australia, NZ etc are far more safer places for orthodox Jews than Isreal. Orthodox Jews do not get beaten for protesting in those countries.. Nor do they get forced to join the army in those countries but they do in Isreal..

this is news from the Isreali Press just a few days old... maybe you should read it and you might learn something about Isreal.

http://www.jpost.com/National-News/Report-Three-Palestinians-killed-in-West-Bank-violence-368926

do police and civilians that steal land (aka settlers) shoot protesters in your country? I feel really sorry for you if they do.

Antisemitism existed long before the Holocaust,the official goal of the Zionist movement was to establish a Jewish state in the Holy Land. Israel is basically a solution for the Jewish question.

Providing a safe place for Jews does not necessitate the invasion of other countries the military occupation and outright theft of Palestinian land for more than 50 years

Not exactly,Arab aggression towards Israel does necessitate an Israeli response. Both sides don't want each other on their land,that's why they fight.

In fact the UK and the US, Canada, Australia, NZ etc are far more safer places for orthodox Jews than Isreal. Orthodox Jews do not get beaten for protesting in those countries.. Nor do they get forced to join the army in those countries but they do in Isreal..

The Holocaust proved Jews will never be safe on forgein land. with rising anti semitism and muslim immigration Jews are already unsafe,and because they dont have an army they cant fight back,unlike Jews in Israel.

this is news from the Isreali Press just a few days old... maybe you should read it and you might learn something about Isreal.

http://www.jpost.com/National-News/Report-Three-Palestinians-killed-in-West-Bank-violence-368926

People get killed during riots. especially when they shoot and throw molotovs on the police. nothing new here