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Author Topic: New York’s New Bitcoin Rules Are Going to Kill Its Startups  (Read 3093 times)
HarHarHar9965
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July 19, 2014, 09:45:57 PM
 #21

New York’s New Bitcoin Rules Are Going to Kill Its Startups

http://www.wired.com/2014/07/ny_bitcoin/

It's only a draft/proposal at this point, right? Still open to public comment, and changes? Hopefully the bitcoin community and business/financial community can lobby for some more business-friendly regs.
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July 19, 2014, 10:24:57 PM
 #22

NY regulation is a joke.

We will not comply, nor will we comply with Canadian regulation nor any other kind of regulation - PERIOD.

More regulation = less innovation = more monopolies = more government control of the money supply.

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July 20, 2014, 12:01:16 AM
 #23

New York’s New Bitcoin Rules Are Going to Kill Its Startups

http://www.wired.com/2014/07/ny_bitcoin/

It's only a draft/proposal at this point, right? Still open to public comment, and changes? Hopefully the bitcoin community and business/financial community can lobby for some more business-friendly regs.

That's what I've heard, anyway. Let us pray.... Undecided I'm afraid that if this is what it looks like in NY, that this what it will look like on the federal level eventually as well.

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July 20, 2014, 12:26:39 AM
 #24

NY regulation is a joke.

We will not comply, nor will we comply with Canadian regulation nor any other kind of regulation - PERIOD.

More regulation = less innovation = more monopolies = more government control of the money supply.

People will comply, even the hardest ones;that is the power of gouvernment.
They will have it their way, one way or the other, and by refusing their regulations we might see even more banks accounts linked to bitcoin closed.
That would further tear down the price, and force potential investors away.
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July 20, 2014, 04:16:27 AM
 #25

The proposed new regulations will only apply to companies that process bitcoin payments on behalf of customers and to companies that hold bitcoin on behalf of their customers (mainly exchanges). This is suppose to prevent another MtGOX from happening again.
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July 20, 2014, 05:06:08 AM
 #26

I am sorry for play "the devil's advocate" but every business runs better with "rules and regulations".

http://www.introversion.co.uk/
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July 20, 2014, 05:08:25 AM
 #27

BTW,

BitLicense Regulations Forked on GitHub by Bitcoin Community

Following the BitLicense announcement on Reddit, Bitcoin Foundation General Counsel Patrick Murck created a .5 BTC bounty for the first person to upload the complete text of the BitLicense regulations to GitHub for the community to edit.


http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/bitlicense-regulations-forked-github-bitcoin-community/2014/07/19

http://www.introversion.co.uk/
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libivan
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July 20, 2014, 05:22:04 AM
 #28

I am sorry for play "the devil's advocate" but every business runs better with "rules and regulations".

It seems to me that businesses run better with free competition and "less" government.
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July 20, 2014, 05:27:14 AM
 #29

I am sorry for play "the devil's advocate" but every business runs better with "rules and regulations".

It seems to me that businesses run better with free competition and "less" government.

You can have both, they're not mutually exclusiveexclude clause. An analogy is a basketball (or any other ) game, you have a book of rules and competition.

http://www.introversion.co.uk/
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July 20, 2014, 05:34:29 AM
 #30

I am sorry for play "the devil's advocate" but every business runs better with "rules and regulations".

It seems to me that businesses run better with free competition and "less" government.

You can have both, they're not mutually exclusiveexclude clause. An analogy is a basketball (or any other ) game, you have a book of rules and competition.

or (for people involved more directly with computing science ) is like

compiler construction

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_compiler_construction   

 Grin

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July 20, 2014, 06:28:08 AM
 #31

Ouch, I was really looking forward to these regulations coming out, but this sounds a bit ominous. None of this is already set in stone, is it? I hear mention of CA... have any drafts come out from there?
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July 20, 2014, 04:20:22 PM
 #32

Fly away my little start-ups! Fly to other states and countries!
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July 21, 2014, 06:06:41 PM
 #33

New York’s New Bitcoin Rules Are Going to Kill Its Startups

http://www.wired.com/2014/07/ny_bitcoin/

God damn. I actually feel lucky that I'm Canadian, in a completely "American-minded" way!






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July 21, 2014, 06:10:27 PM
 #34

Just to let you know, it can get much worse if the United States of Leviathan get a'juggernauting our way. Once of my secret fears revolves around the mighty U.S. Congress getting the idea in its head that using an 'umble anonymizer service should be considered obstruction of justice (a felony.)






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Harley997
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July 21, 2014, 11:47:33 PM
 #35

Ouch, I was really looking forward to these regulations coming out, but this sounds a bit ominous. None of this is already set in stone, is it? I hear mention of CA... have any drafts come out from there?
The NY regulations are still in the draft phase and the regulator is soliciting comments from the public.

IMO these regulations are good for bitcoin over the long term as they only apply to exchanges and payment processors, and in simple terms only make exchanges hold sufficient bitcoin in reserve to cover all of their customer's deposits. The regulations also subject exchanges to audits to make sure they are complying with the above requirement. I would argue that the regulation would make it less likely that we would encounter another GOX type situation. 

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July 22, 2014, 11:37:03 AM
 #36

Ouch, I was really looking forward to these regulations coming out, but this sounds a bit ominous. None of this is already set in stone, is it? I hear mention of CA... have any drafts come out from there?
The NY regulations are still in the draft phase and the regulator is soliciting comments from the public.

IMO these regulations are good for bitcoin over the long term as they only apply to exchanges and payment processors, and in simple terms only make exchanges hold sufficient bitcoin in reserve to cover all of their customer's deposits. The regulations also subject exchanges to audits to make sure they are complying with the above requirement. I would argue that the regulation would make it less likely that we would encounter another GOX type situation. 

In that case, it would be far more reassuring if the drafter sounded like he wandered in from the Securities and Exchange Commission rather than from the U.S. Department of Justice.

Speaking of securities regulation: as part of my slew of responsibilities as part of the dev team for the Nxt clone NFD, I bought a complete, ~3,500 page paper copy of the complete securities regulations of my home domicile of Ontario, Canada. Carswell Publishers (Thomson-Reuters) was good enough to later send me an updated copy of the same book as part of my "subscription." Real masochists lug paper.  Smiley

What was worrying me was how Nxt's (and NFD's) "Asset Exchange" would look to an Ontario Securities Commission enforcement officer if he or she found out about it.

I was disappointed, but not really surprised, to see that the Ontario legislation's definition of "security" was so broad that a clever accountant could argue that good ol' "Canadian Tire Money" is a security. Inventory, or goods available for sale, is (of course) a current asset.

Now, Canadian law has a buzzword - "reasonable" - that Canadians in the law take seriously. If some intrepid accountant lodged a complaint about Canadian Tire money being an out-of-bounds security, an OSC enforcement officer would congratulate him for being clever but would end with: "of course, you're being unreasonable." And then, the officer would joke about it in private with his or her colleagues. Smiley

But something like the "feeshare" - a grey-area legal gimcrack something like a permanent prepaid lease on a house, only it's supposed to be a grey-area not-quite-a-common-share - would get an enforcement officer's serious attention. And not in a good way.

That's not a worry in the NFD nano-world, at the moment, but it's a big worry for the Nxters. The listings of the Nxt Asset Exchange are chock-full of feeshares. I know for a fact that one of the issuers is domiciled in Ontario, Canada. The name escapes me - damn my rickety memory.  Wink

What does this have to do with Bitcoin? Simple. If the Bitcoin world comes up with a Bitcoin-centered suite of Crypto 2.0 solutions, like an Asset Exchange, the legal fate of Nxt's is going to be very relevant to Bitcoin. In this sense, Nxt and its offshoots are a kind of advanced expeditionary force for Bitcoin. If the Nxt AE gets slaughtered in court, Bitcoiners will know that an Asset Exchange is a no-go. On the other hand, if Nxt's AE survives and you come across Nxters doing a victory-parade kind of happy dance, you know that some kind of Asset Exchange is more-or-less legally safe for Bitcoin itself.

In this sense, Nxt and its offshoots are "good" altcoins in the old-school sense. They're serving as pilot plants for the Bitcoin world and the crypto world in general.         






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July 22, 2014, 12:47:06 PM
 #37

I'm not quite sure of the accuracy of my info but back in the 70's I think Citibank or some bank with Citi in their name moved out of New York into the state of Dakota...can't remember if its North or South. The reason being was that NY had too much regulations that affected one of their service offering...That was VISA credit card service I believe. I see the same parallels with bitcoin. Back in the 50's no one wanted anything to do with a piece of plastic called a credit card, merchants wanted cold hard cash.

Note: I can't remember the details clearly but if you look it up there is info out there.
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July 22, 2014, 12:48:37 PM
 #38

I think the theory that the whole proposal just being a 'foot in the door' is interesting. They post those restrictive rules only to publish the
'real' rules afterwards and everybody will be happy that they've been relaxed! Talking about human psychology!

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July 22, 2014, 01:07:50 PM
 #39

I guess the main offense is, who is New York to regulate Bitcoin? They didn't make it. They don't own it. It's not theirs. It belongs to the world, not to any one state or country or government. Is the rest of the world going to follow New York? Highly unlikely. So who cares if New York tries to slap regulations on Bitcoin? Bitcoin is much bigger than New York. By trying to regulate it, they are simply limiting themselves. People will use it freely in every other place, and New York will be excluded.
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July 22, 2014, 01:12:49 PM
 #40

I guess the main offense is, who is New York to regulate Bitcoin? They didn't make it. They don't own it. It's not theirs. It belongs to the world, not to any one state or country or government. Is the rest of the world going to follow New York? Highly unlikely. So who cares if New York tries to slap regulations on Bitcoin? Bitcoin is much bigger than New York. By trying to regulate it, they are simply limiting themselves. People will use it freely in every other place, and New York will be excluded.

Well, a state, city our country can only try to put rules in place they think will benefit their companies and citizens the most. If they devise rules they think are suitable for companies dealing with bitcoin, they can just do that. It's their task to provide a legal framework for companies operating in their state, after all. If you don't want to do business there, just don't do it then, I guess Smiley

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