Complaints about amount of Monero posts thread

[bitwho]

I kind of want Bytecoin or Boolberry to become the dominant CN coin, just to see the arrogant Monero proponents get a comeuppance.

this is exactly what i mean. they are too full of themselves. opening thread after thread like they are entitled to it. this kind of behavior just makes the members look desperate. hurting the coins image.

Even doge was not so obnoxious

ehhh eff it. why do i bother.

[btc-mike]

BBR's changes to Classic CryptoNote are not small. BBR's block chain changes make it at least 50% smaller. That is just one change.

So go ahead fork Monero then, but keep the perfectly sized blockchain intact. (That is the value, the blockchain ledger with everyones holdings)
Monero is young and can still grow, a hard fork would be a loved by investors if it brings in even better functions.

I think in general the altcoin scene is too afraid to hard fork, there is nothing that hinders a hard fork of Monero at this point. Monero is not old like Bitcoin, it's a perfect coin to hard fork and keep the value intact. That would only raise confidence.

That is Monero's decision to make. I don't believe a CryptoNote coin has ever been successfully hard-forked. There may be unexpected consequences.

[nutildah]

You just want to argue with me, don't you?

No, I'd just like you to point out the mindless slobbering you state exists.

No, you're wrong. You really do just want to argue with me. Because I already pointed it out to you.

[smooth]

BBR's changes to Classic CryptoNote are not small. BBR's block chain changes make it at least 50% smaller. That is just one change.

This isn't meant to say that BBR changes are not worthwhile, but in reality if the size reduction is only 50% that is a small reduction.

Disk sizes are routinely measured in terabytes. Even SSDs are reaching the terabyte range now. Blockchain sizes for any of these coins are measured in the gigabytes or tens of gigabytes at most. On another thread someone estimated a CN blockchain with transaction volume comparable to bitcoin at around 60 GB in a few years. Obviously these estimates are highly innaccurate, but that isn't really the point. By the time this happens disk sizes will likely be measured in tens of terabytes. Whether the blockchain size turns out to be 30 GB (1/2) or 120 GB (2x) really makes very little difference.

I note in fairness that you did say at least 50%. If it turns out to be 90% or more, then perhaps you are on to something. But at 50% it is hard to see why anyone would care much.

Yes, I'm part of the XMR team so I have an an agenda here, as do you. However, others with no apparent agenda have made the same point, including I think dga who is now a visible BBR supporter.

[fluffypony]

You just want to argue with me, don't you?

No, I'd just like you to point out the mindless slobbering you state exists.

No, you're wrong. You really do just want to argue with me. Because I already pointed it out to you.

You said I should look at the Poloniex trollbox. That's disingenuous, is not a credible source, and certainly does not contain any officially sanctioned information from members of the core team.

Again, you state that mindless slobbering exists, so link me to the mindless slobbering over Monero on Reddit or Bitcointalk. You made a claim, I'm asking for a citation, just like Wikipedia does: [citation needed]

[fluffypony]

I kind of want Bytecoin or Boolberry to become the dominant CN coin, just to see the arrogant Monero proponents get a comeuppance.

I can't speak for proponents outside of the core team, but speaking as one of the 7 members of the core team I can assure you that we do not wish to be arrogant. Of course we believe in the fundamentals of the underlying technology (see our CryptoNote whitepaper review), and in the changes that have been made and continue to be made to the Monero codebase. We would be silly not to:)

But we do not believe - on any level - that we are infallible, that the technology is infallible, or that any of the other contributors will submit code that is infallible. Our "mission statement", so to speak, is simple: create something private, secure, and valuable that everyone can use.

If we overstep those lines, please point it out to us, and we will do everything in our power to ensure that any arrogance is corrected immediately and does not happen in future. Any pointers you would be able to provide would, of course, be extremely appreciated.

[btc-mike]

BBR's changes to Classic CryptoNote are not small. BBR's block chain changes make it at least 50% smaller. That is just one change.

This isn't meant to say that BBR changes are not worthwhile, but in reality if the size reduction is only 50% that is a small reduction.

Disk sizes are routinely measured in terabytes. Even SSDs are reaching the terabyte range now. Blockchain sizes for any of these coins are measured in the gigabytes or tens of gigabytes at most. On another thread someone estimated a CN blockchain with transaction volume comparable to bitcoin at around 60 GB in a few years. Obviously these estimates are highly innaccurate, but that isn't really the point. By the time this happens disk sizes will likely be measured in tens of terabytes. Whether the blockchain size turns out to be 30 GB (1/2) or 120 GB (2x) really makes very little difference.

I note in fairness that you did say at least 50%. If it turns out to be 90% or more, then perhaps you are on to something. But at 50% it is hard to see why anyone would care much.

Yes, I'm part of the XMR team so I have an an agenda here, as do you. However, others with no apparent agenda have made the same point, including I think dga who is now a visible BBR supporter.

I understand the overall block chain size will not be a huge concern as far as storage is concerned but it can slow things down.

Zoidberg's calculations say 55-90% reduction based on mixin usage. I was keeping it very conservative.  

[fluffypony]

You said I should look at the Poloniex trollbox. That's disingenuous, is not a credible source, and certainly does not contain any officially sanctioned information from members of the core team.

Again, you state that mindless slobbering exists, so link me to the mindless slobbering over Monero on Reddit or Bitcointalk. You made a claim, I'm asking for a citation, just like Wikipedia does: [citation needed]

Jesus Christ Pal you are such a fucking troll.

I'm sorry you don't count Poloniex as a valid source of information. I don't give a fucking shit.

You asked me where I saw people mindlessly slobbering over Monero, so I told you.

Now go fuck yourself.

Resorting to ad hominem attacks does not help your cause. Your claim is the equivalent of me saying "nutildah rapes panda bears", and when pressed for a source saying "oh well I heard it whispered in the crowd at the Convention for Pathological Liars." I have no fundamental issue with you making a terribly bold and terribly false claim, but I'd prefer it if you at least tried to legitimise it by backing it up with a reference or two. You now, to try give your obvious falsehood some legs.

[fluffypony]

Resorting to ad hominem attacks does not help your cause. Your claim is the equivalent of me saying "nutildah rapes panda bears", and when pressed for a source saying "oh well I heard it whispered in the crowd at the Convention for Pathological Liars." I have no fundamental issue with you making a terribly bold and terribly false claim, but I'd prefer it if you at least tried to legitimise it by backing it up with a reference or two. You now, to try give your obvious falsehood some legs. I am left to decipher your claim, where you could've had instead made it, you know, scientific and rational.

Now you're calling me a liar?

Seriously, go fuck yourself you bored wasteman.

Get a job, get a hobby, get a life, do something other than tell me I didn't see what I saw.

Dumb asshole.

I'm not sure why you feel the need to resort to further ad hominem attacks and a litany of swearing punctuated by vitriol?

This is not a complicated request. You claimed that "there [are] too many random people all mindlessly slobbering over [Monero] in a desperate attempt to fool others into taking their bag". I asked for you to back that claim up. I was expecting a link to some Bitcointalk or Reddit posts filled with memes, "to the moon" comments, and other silly behaviour that could be called "mindless slobbering". Instead, you told me to spend 5 minutes on a chat system called the "troll box" that has nothing to do with Monero.

[smooth]

It doesn't matter if I took screen shots from Poloniex where people are pumping XMR day and night and then I uploaded them here for you.

Get real. People pump constantly in trollboxes. It is pretty much the only thing trollboxes have ever been used for.

The reason people pump XMR in the Poloniex troll box is simply that XMR is the most traded coin on Poloniex. It has nothing to do with the coin itself. When the most traded coin was DRK or something else, people pumped that. When the day comes that XMR is replaced as the most traded coin, the pumpers and trolls in the trollbox will move on to that coin as well.

[fluffypony]

*snip*

Are you having a tough day, my friend? I hope things start to look up for you and your day improves.

I'm heading to bed, but be assured that you will be in my thoughts.

All the best!

[smooth]

PS: Monero SUCKS. It has a stupid name and you're an idiot if you buy it.

Okay, I see we've found the "mindless slobbering." Thanks for your valuable contribution here.

[Joshuar]

It doesn't matter if I took screen shots from Poloniex where people are pumping XMR day and night and then I uploaded them here for you.

Get real. People pump constantly in trollboxes. It is pretty much the only thing trollboxes have ever been used for.

The reason people pump XMR in the Poloniex troll box is simply that XMR is the most traded coin on Poloniex. It has nothing to do with the coin itself. When the most traded coin was DRK or something else, people pumped that. When the day comes that XMR is replaced as the most traded coin, the pumpers and trolls in the trollbox will move on to that coin as well.

How am I not "getting real"? You just described EXACTLY the point I was trying to make!!

I swear, you idiots only come here to make yourself look like uneducated assholes.

You dont make sense nutildah. If Kalabassascoin was being traded the most, it would get pumped in the trollbox by those who bought in it....Any coin would.

[Joshuar]

I just split half of my Darkcoin holdings into Monero. The name Monero is a jewel, im very impressed by the dev team, the coin itself is great, im officially split between 2 "rival" loves, monero and darkcoin.

[onemorebtc]

I just split half of my Darkcoin holdings into Monero. The name Monero is a jewel, im very impressed by the dev team, the coin itself is great, im officially split between 2 "rival" loves, monero and darkcoin.

i have to strong arguments against darkcoin:
 - the anon features (if proofed correct) will most likely be implemented in bitcoin
 - premine

so why do you still hold drk?

[Joshuar]

I just split half of my Darkcoin holdings into Monero. The name Monero is a jewel, im very impressed by the dev team, the coin itself is great, im officially split between 2 "rival" loves, monero and darkcoin.

i have to strong arguments against darkcoin:
 - the anon features (if proofed correct) will most likely be implemented in bitcoin
 - premine

so why do you still hold drk?

'

I bought in early

[digitalindustry]

yeah its alway the same gag - "no one has shown the ability......"

A GPU device is essentially a packaged simplified "PC" its a;  Processor, Ram and Electricity, the market won't keep falling for the same gag.

next question:

Whats wrong with GPU's? 

The latest complex algos and the future ones will all be more or less minable on a broad range of old and new devices - CPU and GPU  this is as close to "egalitarian" as you will get. (even though that is a really retarded word to use.) (i know its not yours)

its just a free market finding equilibrium, that is all it is.

It's not a "gag" at all - unless you're incredibly familiar with the code and its technical merits, or lack thereof, I don't think it's appropriate to speak to its value.

Here's what Dave Andersen, an associate professor in the CS department at Carnegie Mellon, had to say about it:

The algorithm is *not* complex, it's very simple.  Grab a random-indexed 128 bit value from the big lookup table.  Mix it using a single round of AES.  Store part of the result back.  Use that to index the next item.  Mix that with a 64 bit multiply.  Store back.  Repeat.  It's intellectually very close to scrypt, with a few tweaks to take advantage of things that are fast on modern CPUs.

Claymore has no fundamental advantage beyond lots of memory bandwidth and compute.  His results are actually slightly slower than what is achievable on a GPU with no algorithmic magic -- compare Claymore's speeds to tsiv's for nvidia and extrapolate another 10%-20% due to slightly better code.

Remember that there are two ways to implement the CryptoNight algorithm:
  (1) Try to fit a few copies in cache and pound the hell out of them;
  (2) Fit a lot of copies in DRAM and use a lot of bandwidth.

Approach (1) is what's being done on CPUs.  Approach (2) is what's being done on GPUs.  I tried implementing #2 on CPU and couldn't get it to perform as well as my back-of-the-envelope analysis suggests it should, but it's possible it could outperform the current CPU implementations by about 20%.  (I believe yvg1900 tried something similar and came to the same conclusion I did).  An ASIC approach might well be better off with #2, however, but it simply moves the bottleneck to the memory controller, and it's a hard engineering job compared to building an AES unit, a 64 bit multiplier, and 2MB of DRAM.  But that 2MB of DRAM area limits you in a big way.

In my best professional opinion, barring funky weaknesses lingering within the single round of AES, CryptoNight is a very solid PoW.  Its only real disadvantage is comparatively slow verification time, which really hurts the time to download and verify the blockchain.

ok no worries.

good luck with it all.

[iCEBREAKER]

Bumping this thread, so we may again consolidate all the whining from the failed pumpers of CLOAK/DARK/BLACK/XC and other scamonymous coins.

[Spoetnik]

I just split half of my Darkcoin holdings into Monero. The name Monero is a jewel, im very impressed by the dev team, the coin itself is great, im officially split between 2 "rival" loves, monero and darkcoin.

Welcome to the CULT.. do you feel "juiced" ?
how much will you make on new members ?

I'd sooner join up with Scientology LOL

Too many Complaints about Nazi inspired "Monero Cult" Ponzi Propanganda !

[drawingthesun]

I just split half of my Darkcoin holdings into Monero. The name Monero is a jewel, im very impressed by the dev team, the coin itself is great, im officially split between 2 "rival" loves, monero and darkcoin.

Welcome to the CULT.. do you feel "juiced" ?
how much will you make on new members ?

I'd sooner join up with Scientology LOL

Too many Complaints about Nazi inspired "Monero Cult" Ponzi Propanganda !

A cult? We are a cult only if those that follow Bitcoin are a cult.

You decide.