Could the US government gain control of Bitcoin?

[joshraban76]

This has been eating at me so I figured I would ask you all what you think about this. I don't know if this has been talked about before and if so Im sorry.

We all know the government is actively watching bitcoin emerge as a legitimate currency source. I'm sure they are in talks about it behind closed doors. Which we would know to lead to think tanks about regulation. What if the government was planning to mine a large portion of the coin themselves. Im not talking about buying a room full of 6th miners. Im talking about them using something like these NSA datacenters. Building their own high tech hardware that would put our best miners to shame. Would it be possible for the government to miner a large enough portion of the wealth that they would hold  controlling interest?

[Scott J]

This has been eating at me so I figured I would ask you all what you think about this. I don't know if this has been talked about before and if so Im sorry.

We all know the government is actively watching bitcoin emerge as a legitimate currency source. I'm sure they are in talks about it behind closed doors. Which we would know to lead to think tanks about regulation. What if the government was planning to mine a large portion of the coin themselves. Im not talking about buying a room full of 6th miners. Im talking about them using something like these NSA datacenters. Building their own high tech hardware that would put our best miners to shame. Would it be possible for the government to miner a large enough portion of the wealth that they would hold  controlling interest?

Of course, yes.

They could do it without even developing their own mining hardware.

It would be a futile waste of money, however, as people would move to a new coin that has technology preventing this.

[chaosPT]

That is what they trying to do know as you can see bitcoin have a lot a future and a lot of use .

[LiteCoinGuy]

hopefully they buy some Litecoins too  , or we all will switch to that. pretty expensive for the Gov.

[DooMAD]

Firstly, the rest of the world is already pretty sick of relying on the US dollar.  If Bitcoin does gain prominence, I can't imagine other sovereign nations would sit back and watch while one country tried to dominate the next incarnation of money.  

Secondly, and more importantly, there's little financial incentive for them.  Their current fiat system is skewed in favour of the wealthy and that's how they like it.  If you were in control of a system where you could print money out of thin air and give it to your wealthy friends so they can use it to gamble for free and also fund your next election campaign, would you also then want control of a system that doesn't let you do those things?  They'd have no interest whatsoever in being in charge of a system that doesn't benefit them and their campaign donors financially.  Particularly for the amount they'd have to spend for even a chance to make it happen.  And even if they did gain control, we'd trade for the next currency on a new algorithm and they'd have to try again.

[jonanon]

They could try, but it would be a waste of time, if they did people would stop using BTC and move elsewhere!

[GangkisKhan]

They could try, but it would be a waste of time, if they did people would stop using BTC and move elsewhere!

Yes. Cloning bitcoin and having another block chain aren't that hard.

[jonald_fyookball]

If they started hoarding bitcoin, it would cause a huge price spike as they suck up all the supply. 

[Daniel91]

This has been eating at me so I figured I would ask you all what you think about this. I don't know if this has been talked about before and if so Im sorry.

We all know the government is actively watching bitcoin emerge as a legitimate currency source. I'm sure they are in talks about it behind closed doors. Which we would know to lead to think tanks about regulation. What if the government was planning to mine a large portion of the coin themselves. Im not talking about buying a room full of 6th miners. Im talking about them using something like these NSA datacenters. Building their own high tech hardware that would put our best miners to shame. Would it be possible for the government to miner a large enough portion of the wealth that they would hold  controlling interest?

Yes, I'm afraid this is possible that they may think about this but it's really question what they will accomplish with this.
Bitcoin users don't like any government control at all so if such scenario happen they will just move to other virtual currency.
In this scenario, US government will just waste their resources and accomplish nothing.

[shursight]

its more likely that governments will gain control by quietly buying up all bitcoin. Anonymity makes this the most likely scenario. Bitcoin is on open market. Governments can slowly buy up the supply and nobody will even know. The coins will still exist but will be taken from circulation. Anonymity is probably going to be the demise of bitcoin and any other crypto that stays anonymous.

 

[Lauda]

Why are people afraid of this? It's obvious that the US government and well any other government does not take action/s from which they won't profit/which will result in a loss.
Doing this would be pretty stupid and pointless.

[MJK]

I doubt they'd go to this length. It's probably not the governments that are worried or you need to worry about but the banks instead.

1CUxrUypHahmXuzVDtGxHQN44ch1DV85E2

[shursight]

Why are people afraid of this? It's obvious that the US government and well any other government does not take action/s from which they won't profit/which will result in a loss.
Doing this would be pretty stupid and pointless.

Governments always do things that result in a loss. There is probably no government that is not in massive debt.

I doubt they'd go to this length. It's probably not the governments that are worried or you need to worry about but the banks instead.

Bitcoin is not taxable. People can hide lots of wealth in bitcoin and any other crypto for that matter. Governments do not like that idea. 

[Ron~Popeil]

They theoretically could buy a bunch or mine a bunch. But to what end? If they tried anything nefarious the value would plummet and they would be back where they started without having accomplished anything other than wasting millions of dollars. The rest of us wold have all ready moved on to a new fork or even a new currency.

[Beliathon]

They theoretically could buy a bunch or mine a bunch. But to what end? If they tried anything nefarious the value would plummet...

I have to correct you on that, there is nothing the US government could do that would cause Bitcoin's value to plummet, short of using EMPs or nukes on the entire world - basically shutting down the internet.

The only thing the government can do is ADD demand pressure (prices go up) to Bitcoin. This may happen if/when they "want in" on future economic policy making.

[collinstar]

This has been eating at me so I figured I would ask you all what you think about this.

In my opinion the fact that 70-80% of all bitcoins was mined in the US doesn't matter that US government have a control over BTC. The only thing that they can do is create more laws which will support bitcoins distribution all over the world.

[Sefton]

I doubt they'd go to this length. It's probably not the governments that are worried or you need to worry about but the banks instead.

Bitcoin is not taxable. People can hide lots of wealth in bitcoin and any other crypto for that matter. Governments do not like that idea. 

Anything is taxable. I don't see how it's any different from cash in this regard.

[Dogtanian]

I can't see any government going to this length in an attempt to take control. It'll be futile as even if they were successful people would just move on or create a new currency so there's literally no point in fighting it so they've better learn to live with it.

[jonald_fyookball]

I can't see any government going to this length in an attempt to take control. It'll be futile as even if they were successful people would just move on or create a new currency so there's literally no point in fighting it so they've better learn to live with it.

True, Andreas Antonopoulis summarized well when he said (paraphrasing) "frontal attacks on a decentralized system are counterproductive.  They make the system even more distributed and resilient"

[banque]

The US Gov isn't that smart IMO

Now at 100K btc value they may wake up and try to consume the new btc being mined but at 600 bucks btc and .01% user base of the world pop now, I doubt many in the gov know what a btc is other than it has been used in drug trade.

So DEA and USAGO may know what it is, but I'd like to see the big O in the Oval office mention it as more than it's involved in narco transactions.

Sure you have some smart guys usually in low level positions in the various governments around the world, but historically the last place a young mind with a major degree from a high profile university goes is gov work, they go right into nice spots in big corporations, gov jobs are the worse paying jobs around for entry level positions.

You're more likely to see MS (Microsoft) or eBay or Amazon trying to corner new coins, but again, the guys running these corps are not usually that atuned to something with .01% of the population using it.

Now maybe the geeks at FB or Twitter are looking into mining but the US Gov, nah.

[deluxeCITY]

I doubt they'd go to this length. It's probably not the governments that are worried or you need to worry about but the banks instead.

Bitcoin is not taxable. People can hide lots of wealth in bitcoin and any other crypto for that matter. Governments do not like that idea. 

Anything is taxable. I don't see how it's any different from cash in this regard.

It is near impossible to audit and force people to pay taxes on bitcoin. You really don't know when you are moving money to a different address that you control or if you are actually spending it.

[BTCINVESTOR]

I think most people on here would agree that if the government could somehow succeed in harming the bitcoin ecosystem in some way, it would likely not matter that much because, as has been stated numerous times (and not just in this thread), the crypto community would just move into better and more resilient technology (i.e. another altcoin or math-based currency upgrade). Of course this would happen.

However, it is still a very salient question to ask because even if all any government could do to harm bitcoin was to injure (or beat up on) its reputation, functionality,  or price somehow, that would be a very big deal for all of us that have been early adopters/investors, especially if the world moves into some other system and tends to abandon the "old tech bitcoin". I sure am hoping that my bitcoin will continue to appreciate in value over time and do not eventually just fall victim to a more competitive and/or government-proof coin. I want bitcoin to always have a strong reputation and value.

I'm sure many of the prominent bitcoiners who have fought through the early trials of this technology to bring it to the masses would feel quite cheated if their dedicated efforts turn out to be for a coin that just didn't have the muscle to evolve well enough long term.

Lets say hypothetically, one of the so-called 2.0 coins like NXT or Blackcoin simply turn out to be evolutionarily superior because, say, they are far more resistant to government or centralized manipulation. What if money were to pour out of bitcoin's market share into other "safe-haven 2.0 coins" during a moment of perceived crisis? For example, some mining operation gains a massive level of control over the system or a government secretly or subversively purchases two of the biggest mining pools and then intentionally tries to do whatever they could technologically (or even politically) to create uncertainty/fear regarding control of what is supposed to be a "trustless system"? It's feasible, and perhaps even likely, for things like this to happen eventually, especially if bitcoin becomes a massive global force that continually siphons world economic power.  

I suspect there are smaller industrialized or developing countries, which as time goes on, could see their national currencies crumble in the face of bitcoin. It makes sense that smaller and/or more corrupt nations would be the first ones to lose control of their own currencies as crypto proves to be far more reliable than a system manipulated by a government which, say for example, is run by gangsters.

Since the vast majority of a nation's power is vested in it's ability to issue and manipulate a sovereign currency, I could see a desperate nation attempting any manner of assault on the biggest perceived crypto threat (a.k.a. bitcoin), simply to create fear or loss in value. Yes it would ultimately be futile, but they might succeed in shifting some technologic train tracks. Smarter nations, hopefully, will try to be a part of this innovative technology over time, potentially shielding it to some degree from the temper tantrums of nations which are run by idiots who rely on contrived state power and suppression.

Bottom line for me:

I want bitcoin to be the winner. I want to have been an early adopter. Please don't tell me that down the road 20 years, everybody is using blackcoin simply because "the great mining panic of 2018" made everybody sell bitcoin and buy into a system the government couldn't screw up as easily.  My bitcoin could potentially be worth very little in a situation like that and I don't own any blackcoin.  What if bitcoin is just traded as a "curiosity coin" and eventually becomes vastly eclipsed in value? Frankly, there are so many alternatives out there right now, I doubt I would end up picking the right one. I sat in the audience in Amsterdam in May and heard Gavin say something to the effect that he hoped bitcoin would be declared the ultimate winner down the road, but that it was very possible for some other math-based currency to become the dominant system.

I want to bet on the horse that eventually wins this race. And it's a marathon boys, not a sprint. So naturally the big question is: Is bitcoin more naturally suited for the long race or just as an intro coin to prove the concept? I guess we will find out.

[scarsbergholden]

I have a few questions about this. Is this something that could eventually be addressed by the protocol? Are there altcoins that have already addressed this issue with some level of success?

[Kayex]

If the U.S. gov indeed does start sucking up all of the coins,
BTC value would surpass over 1K.
But then they'd tax everything.
GDI 'Murica.

[taylortyler]

If the U.S. gov indeed does start sucking up all of the coins,
BTC value would surpass over 1K.
But then they'd tax everything.
GDI 'Murica.

And if you get tired of everything and want to expatriate, you get taxed too!

[FattyMcButterpants]

If the U.S. gov indeed does start sucking up all of the coins,
BTC value would surpass over 1K.
But then they'd tax everything.
GDI 'Murica.

And if you get tired of everything and want to expatriate, you get taxed too!

you mean like an exit tax? or do you mean the income tax after $80k? can you renounce citizenship in the USA and get out of paying taxes permanently? that would be interesting....

[GangkisKhan]

If the U.S. gov indeed does start sucking up all of the coins,
BTC value would surpass over 1K.
But then they'd tax everything.
GDI 'Murica.

And if you get tired of everything and want to expatriate, you get taxed too!

you mean like an exit tax? or do you mean the income tax after $80k? can you renounce citizenship in the USA and get out of paying taxes permanently? that would be interesting....

You need to pay around 50% asset tax for renouncing citizenship if I am not mistaken.

[DjPxH]

This has been eating at me so I figured I would ask you all what you think about this. I don't know if this has been talked about before and if so Im sorry.

We all know the government is actively watching bitcoin emerge as a legitimate currency source. I'm sure they are in talks about it behind closed doors. Which we would know to lead to think tanks about regulation. What if the government was planning to mine a large portion of the coin themselves. Im not talking about buying a room full of 6th miners. Im talking about them using something like these NSA datacenters. Building their own high tech hardware that would put our best miners to shame. Would it be possible for the government to miner a large enough portion of the wealth that they would hold  controlling interest?

Yes, definitely. They'd just need to develop fast enough ASICs or buy them in bulk. It'd be not that expensive as you'd might think, although I can't provide any concrete numbers now. If they suddenly had 90% of the network, bitcoin would become worthless. They could afford that, they're the freaking US government!

[ACCTseller]

If the U.S. gov indeed does start sucking up all of the coins,
BTC value would surpass over 1K.
But then they'd tax everything.
GDI 'Murica.

And if you get tired of everything and want to expatriate, you get taxed too!

you mean like an exit tax? or do you mean the income tax after $80k? can you renounce citizenship in the USA and get out of paying taxes permanently? that would be interesting....

You need to pay around 50% asset tax for renouncing citizenship if I am not mistaken.

No, you do not need to pay anywhere near this amount. You need to have paid all of your taxes that were previously due.

[Harley997]

This has been eating at me so I figured I would ask you all what you think about this. I don't know if this has been talked about before and if so Im sorry.

We all know the government is actively watching bitcoin emerge as a legitimate currency source. I'm sure they are in talks about it behind closed doors. Which we would know to lead to think tanks about regulation. What if the government was planning to mine a large portion of the coin themselves. Im not talking about buying a room full of 6th miners. Im talking about them using something like these NSA datacenters. Building their own high tech hardware that would put our best miners to shame. Would it be possible for the government to miner a large enough portion of the wealth that they would hold  controlling interest?

Yes, definitely. They'd just need to develop fast enough ASICs or buy them in bulk. It'd be not that expensive as you'd might think, although I can't provide any concrete numbers now. If they suddenly had 90% of the network, bitcoin would become worthless. They could afford that, they're the freaking US government!

I don't think they would really be able to afford to do something like this. Congress would need to authorize the funds to pay for this and with the budget deficit at the current levels I don't think it would authorize something like this that would have zero positive impact to the country nor to the US economy.